Harrycrane
Well-known member
He wasn’t fired after a 39-7 stretch the last 5 regular seasons . Just mentioning because some think he was .
Dublin Coffman Rocks 2020
- Thread starter Harrycrane
- Start date
I know. I just find it interesting that it was noted on here that the people he worked for thought the program was broken and had a bad culture...
Its so easy to say that after the fact. Just curious to see if they did anything to help fix the so called "broken program"
I never got the feeling reading this thread that there was a bad culture... or a broken program....
Harrycrane
Well-known member
AHM. Thinks so and agrees with the administration who he says thought so. Stokes to the rescue of the losing program. ? Crabtree never had a down period in two decades . But it was time for him to step down . Very happy to have a coach of Stokes caliber take over. Go Rocks
I know the area coaches think very highly of Crabtree and their program the past two decades. The only thing he/Coffman is missing is a state title which is VERY hard to do as a D1 public (Not named Pick Central) Liberty has one of the best coaches in central Ohio and Coffman won their first several meetings, never lost to Liberty until 2018 regional final I believe. To say the program is not in a good spot is 100% false 20 consecutive years of winning seasons, how many big schools can say that? Can the new staff improve the culture? Yes, probably from the sounds of it they had a lot of energy at the 7 on 7 Saturday but energy and celebrating catches and pass break ups at a 7 on 7 is much different than coaching X’s and O’s at the D1 level against top D1 coaches on a Friday night.
Stokes is excellent on Friday nights....
7 on 7's are just part of the process....
Rock Chalk
Member
Agreed.
Harrycrane
Well-known member
Yes what your peers think in any proffession is more accurate and means more to most than what some Boss or adminstration member thinks because they have different agenda's and different knowledge... This isn't to say that the staff was perfect or that the team should have won a few more play-off games.There was some frustrating times to be sure .There was talent for sure as well BUT there was also elevation of mediocre and average talent as well . Program kids played big roles also .They were developed . Defense was sometimes undersized in a handful of years I can remember .O-lines were not big and powerful every year like other top D-1 programs . This isn't Pickerington ion terms of talent and demographics. Or R-Burg for that matter . The make-up of Hartley and DeSales rosters and talent levels have changed and been elevated in the last decacde .Watterson has stayed the same and we have seen the results .
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All of his peers? How did Brian White feel? And before you ask, yes I know the answer.
here is where our disagreement is at its core: you see winning record as a testament to culture. Stokes does not. If you listen to his interviews and are astute, you can here him directly address the culture he took over
If you don’t want to believe me simply
Ask the former principal or current AD “what was the culture like under the previous coach?” I swear they will answer honestly. If you aren’t comfortable asking them simply ask Crager or Crabtree “what did the former principal or current AD identify as the culture under your leadership”. Again I swear you will get an honest answer.
if you would rather not know these things as facts, if you would rather be a fan rah rah rah go green and recite the record and big victories over bad teams so be it. It’s easier to believe the lie than the truth. And round and round and round we go.
As for me after what I’ve seen from Coffman this summer I couldn’t be more happy or proud. We are entering into a golden era.
-side note Harry. If you say “I’m not going to ask them” then do you even know this people? And if you don’t isn’t it creepy that you are willing to write 50 pages worth on them?
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Harrycrane
Well-known member
Who did I write about in a personal way ? 50 pages worth about someone personally ? Who ? I have never mentioned the Principal or even Sheldon much at all .I am writing about what my opinion of what I have seen and the feedback I have received from many many people about the coach . I am a fan, I don't know who or what you are ? An employee? In the building every day? Golden age? .I like the hire as much as you do , but I think that's a bit hyperbolic, no? I don't equate winning with having a great culture. BUT 20 years ? The feedback I have gotten from dozens of kids and parents? What I've seen on the field and off of it ? Can you have a chitty culture and be as consistent as they have been ? I've never seen a program overcome that for two decades. I have seen short term success with questionable attitude and culture. I saw a solid culture with continuity in effort and results. Never said it was perfect and have been critical about some things as those who have read the spaces over the years know .
I mean why wasn't he fired years ago if it was so bad ? Was the Principal an assistant coach? I have spoken to and really respect Ulring . He was a great Principal . I disagree that it was a bad culture ..If it was as bad as you are saying they thought it was it's on them as to why he wasn't fired way back or even when Duane took the AD post. I'm a fan . Not a reporter who needs or even wants to talk to the coach .It's a public fan forum . I couldn't care less if people like or don't like what I post or what I post about .I get mostly good feedback which is fine . I get crap sometimes from some { Guys like you } which is par for the course when you put yourself and your opinions out there year after year.
I am not an employee at the school or hang around the school like you seem to nor would I want to .I am not as emotionally involved as you obviously. It's personal with you. Rather know what? Like there are deep dark secrets of tawdriness I can't bear to hear about ? LMAO. I've hardly been rah rah and a non-critic . So now they only have beaten bad teams ? You're priceless in your pathetic emotion-based hatred. It's obvious what you think even if you claim to not have shared your opinion. I have stated the record as informing some of the less informed that the coach wasn't fired and the program wasn't broken. { This transition was being talked about as if the thing needed to be torn down and was a mess, and that feeling was mostly stoked by you. You were the reason people were D-ming me or asking me why he was fired . Stokes shat on the previous Minster coach and the culture there as well under coach Moore. Who is a pretty fair coach ? So what ? He does it differently . That's fine . I like the hire . Know what ? Give me the facts that a large majority of former players and parents [And other fans with a clue} are wrong about . They don't seem to know they were involved in a poor culture and that they never grew or developed in the years they were there. I've been fair over the years . You've got an axe of some kind to grind and clearly see the program in a much lesser light than the kids who played there overall and the coaches peers did as well including the staff that just hired them .
I mean you took a dig at the man over his squads 7 on 7 day . The first year with new kids . I mean it doesn't get more pathetic than that really. It exposes your emotional based reflections and renders your credibility in terms of what you actually know about football kind of moot. DeSales is going to regress as a program because Crabtree and Crager are over there was your actual take . Nuff said dude. I think this time no matter how inane and ridiculous your emotional takes are , I'm done responding . The 7 on 7 weak sauce slam might have been the impetuous I needed to see more clearly who and what I am dealing with . I was embarrassed for you when you wrote that take. So ridiculous given the context and something no astute observer would ever utter. Good luck to you man. I am happy that you are now proud of the program . I agree that the new coach is a great dynamic leader who will get a lot out of the kids and I am rooting like {heck} for him and the program as always .
ColumbusCatholic
Well-known member
I know you are very knowledgeable about central Ohio football but about a decade ago DeSales had back to back regional championships and Hartley had a state championship with a very similar roster make up as now…..so there is no mysterious talent elevation at these schools just a continuation of excellence.
Harrycrane
Well-known member
Talent level has grown at Hartley has grown as they have moved from D5 now at D3 . More good players Than a decade ago. IMO . Stronger program now. More capable of playing bigger schools.
I know DeSales has had a really good program and success . Solid history obviously . I maybe projecting a bit but I think as I’ve noticed the change in the offense the skill positions and overall speed has improved and will going forward ., From what I saw say 2012 till now ?! More athletic . Saw them scrimmage Coffman at first as a run based offense . It’s changed of course and I think they have had a few more athletes come in and will continue to
I don't really see this statement as off base. Hartley has built a program under Burchfield and it shows a lot more now throughout the entire program.
DeSales has always has some good athletes, the one WR from this past year was an example of the lightning quick quicks they have now. The MSU kid from a few years ago was another. They are still bruisers though. Their best years are when they have a dominate RB or a good stable.
WJ-OSU-STEELERS
Well-known member
I would guess Hartley & possibly DeSales are up a division due to competitive balancing. Div 3 is 272 to 377, Div 4 is 209 to 271. The voucher situation has to be mention when discussing Hartley’s success over the last 10-15 years.
Harrycrane
Well-known member
Yeah I remember in 2016 I believe seeing Alonzo Booth up close in the Coffman scrimmage , a lot of big time collisions in that scrimmage [ Ben Frye{ Duke} and Griffin Hoak [Youngstown State} with a few big time attempts to slow the big boy down. They have changed the offense since then as we know .
Harrycrane
Well-known member
Not a numbers thing. Hartley has proven to be plenty good enough to have been moved up to D-3 which is where they seem to belong in terms of the competition. They certainly are a top tier D-3 as well so they can beat solid D-1 programs in some years no doubt and very good D-2 schools. He's built a program with a good mix of more talent and better material overall but also some of that blue collar overachiever vibe as well.
Orange&Black64
Active member
Underwear football, but yes part of the process. One thing I didn’t care for at Coffman 7v7 tourney was the coaches whistling the offense dead. Not to mention names but Coach Stokes was 4-5 seconds and the ball needed to be out or blown dead result of a sack which is realistic. While other coaches let their quarterback sit their for 8 seconds and read the defense twice. Just not realistic. If so you have the best offensive line in the country.
Harrycrane
Well-known member
A lot of optimism coming out of a faction of Rock nation if you will [always thought that phrase a bit corny , but it's apt I suppose} and I think that's a good thing. Some excitement and higher expectations than may be some had just a few short months ago .
There is a new energy of course and a new way of doing things that can be a good thing after a couple decades , even if the previous two decades were successful overall. When handicapping either individual games or future win totals, I look for patterns . Parallel situations that can help more accurately predict what may happen presently. Life and history often repeats itself.
Stokes came in at Minster and said that these kids were undertrained or didn't know how to work I was told by a Minster source. He said the same thing about the Coffman kids. He didn't just mean undertrained physically .{ Many Coffman kids trained really hard and improved in the few years they were in the program in that vane} He meant mentally as well . need to become better teammates , be less selfish. New coaches have a different way and they know the kids hadn't gone through his type of leadership and that it will take time to 'Train " the players in his program image if you will.
That is something that all teams should be mindful of and try to eradicate it as quickly as possible.[Selfishness} It's a constant process. Stokes high level leadership concepts are something that I and others out here have seen up close in our work and personally. He is a great mix of an old school leader with more new concepts in leadership that are more geared towards the individuals you are leading take ownership of their own progress. It isn't all about the leader himself ,but all the 'people " in the organization.
Stokes first year at Minster , he is on record as saying that his predecessor might have gotten more out his first team as the kids simply hadn't adapted yet to his 'style". He noted that they had more talent than the 6-4 record would suggest but his kids hadn't quite grasped things yet and that it was going to take more time. Coffman doesn't have the same talent it has in the previous years.
They are adjusting to the new staff and the new way of doing things. This was going to be a rebuilding year no matter who was coaching . This year more than any other in the last 20 is more of a mystery as to how the team will do than any I can remember. After the 2003 season in which they went to the regional final losing to district rival Scioto { Was D-1 for a few years when there was only two Dublin HS's } Jerome opened . 2004 you could see a rebuild coming but they had their coach in place for 3 full seasons and there was enough talent left to know they weren't going to fall off of a cliff .
So, the first two years after the split the record was 13-7 in the regular season and the missed the play-offs one-year and lost in round one the other year. A great 2008 class got things back on track with multiple play-off wins the next two years including a narrow loss to number 4 in the country ST X [15-0 } in the Semi in 2007.
2013 was a year where they had 5 starters back total . Rebuild. BUT they had a really good Junior class who led a really strong 2014 team . This year is similar in terms of kids back but without the same level Junior class . This team has zero O-line starters back. Zero secondary players back . That team was in a similar place because the one returning O-lineman actually was hurt early in the season as the team got off to a 1-3 start. They ended up winning 6 in a row which was needed to make the play-offs where they won their first-round game vs Centerville. A team that had handled them pretty well in a scrimmage . I thought 7-3 was reasonable that season . This year with a new coaching staff and not the same level of talent in the Junior class I can't see 7-3 .
Scrimmages can tell a story. Not the whole story of course but we should get a better idea aftr them . I know the team will be in condition. I know they will be well coached. I know they will play hard . The X-Factor early is the Indiana team that I haven't really looked at closely yet. I know they have a good program. Not great . But have been very good some years and others more average.
Home opener vs Turpin should be a win . Northmont ? Jerome ? and Groveport Mad ? follow. Jerome has more back and their kids have beaten the Coffman kids at the younger levels pretty consistently . GPM I would need to hear some feedback from scrimmages but they have talent . Northmont loses their move in one-year stud QB [Mom moved from Florida for a few months so he could go to Northmont and play more than 5 games} but has some speed back and a D-1 receiver? Do they have a homegrown back-up or another kid from the countryside coming in to sling it ? Their defense was suspect last year . Will it be better this year ?
Liberty ? Home} New QB , lose a lot of their starters as well .O-Line culture is strong with a stud coming back and they have had size most every year along with being very well coached. Not special talent but some solid athletes who are also well coached and make you beat them . They won't beat themselves or be out of position. Edge Liberty with the coaching continuity? O-line advanatge?
At Orange . New QB, has more back , been pretty solid each year and the Olentangy's in general have been really solid . May be Kramer who is more a Berlin guy ,can give us a nugget or two to chew on where the OCC-Central Olentangy's are concerned. We know the Braves face a large rebuild.
At Davidson . Is there a bigger revenge motive in the league this year than there will be in that game? Davidson got beaten by the other Central foes as well [Liberty {45-7 and UA{35-0} crushed them as well} but their chief rival beat them 49-0 and it was every bit of that score in terms of the stats. Wasn't turnover filled and weird bounces . Just a total butt kicking. Davidson has two very good running backs back. Their QB, , more players than Coffman has. They did improve a bit in their play-off loss to Pick North losing by only 13 . They played two more games after that beating Grove City and losing to Canal Winchester but the point was they played their kids who will be starting or battling for starting roles this year giving them more snaps and experience . Coffman after losing in round three did not play any more games the last two weeks .
They should have played the younger kids in a couple games to help them . Seniors may not have had it in their hearts to play after the tough loss , but the kids coming back should have been given a chance to play a game or two after that loss . Just my opinion.
UA? Clear favorite over the Rocks . At Bradley . This one will be interesting. Jags have more guys back , need a new QB but they have a Soph who looks really good{ 6-3 180} . But they have Mayfield back , A couple Linebackers and a promising Soph Wr. and former Dublin Kid {Karrer} Preston Wolfe who will be a good one. A lot can happen from now till then of course. I'm reasonably confident that the Rocks can win some games , but I am not picturing 7+ as it has been for two decades now. {averaged 8 }
There is a new energy of course and a new way of doing things that can be a good thing after a couple decades , even if the previous two decades were successful overall. When handicapping either individual games or future win totals, I look for patterns . Parallel situations that can help more accurately predict what may happen presently. Life and history often repeats itself.
Stokes came in at Minster and said that these kids were undertrained or didn't know how to work I was told by a Minster source. He said the same thing about the Coffman kids. He didn't just mean undertrained physically .{ Many Coffman kids trained really hard and improved in the few years they were in the program in that vane} He meant mentally as well . need to become better teammates , be less selfish. New coaches have a different way and they know the kids hadn't gone through his type of leadership and that it will take time to 'Train " the players in his program image if you will.
That is something that all teams should be mindful of and try to eradicate it as quickly as possible.[Selfishness} It's a constant process. Stokes high level leadership concepts are something that I and others out here have seen up close in our work and personally. He is a great mix of an old school leader with more new concepts in leadership that are more geared towards the individuals you are leading take ownership of their own progress. It isn't all about the leader himself ,but all the 'people " in the organization.
Stokes first year at Minster , he is on record as saying that his predecessor might have gotten more out his first team as the kids simply hadn't adapted yet to his 'style". He noted that they had more talent than the 6-4 record would suggest but his kids hadn't quite grasped things yet and that it was going to take more time. Coffman doesn't have the same talent it has in the previous years.
They are adjusting to the new staff and the new way of doing things. This was going to be a rebuilding year no matter who was coaching . This year more than any other in the last 20 is more of a mystery as to how the team will do than any I can remember. After the 2003 season in which they went to the regional final losing to district rival Scioto { Was D-1 for a few years when there was only two Dublin HS's } Jerome opened . 2004 you could see a rebuild coming but they had their coach in place for 3 full seasons and there was enough talent left to know they weren't going to fall off of a cliff .
So, the first two years after the split the record was 13-7 in the regular season and the missed the play-offs one-year and lost in round one the other year. A great 2008 class got things back on track with multiple play-off wins the next two years including a narrow loss to number 4 in the country ST X [15-0 } in the Semi in 2007.
2013 was a year where they had 5 starters back total . Rebuild. BUT they had a really good Junior class who led a really strong 2014 team . This year is similar in terms of kids back but without the same level Junior class . This team has zero O-line starters back. Zero secondary players back . That team was in a similar place because the one returning O-lineman actually was hurt early in the season as the team got off to a 1-3 start. They ended up winning 6 in a row which was needed to make the play-offs where they won their first-round game vs Centerville. A team that had handled them pretty well in a scrimmage . I thought 7-3 was reasonable that season . This year with a new coaching staff and not the same level of talent in the Junior class I can't see 7-3 .
Scrimmages can tell a story. Not the whole story of course but we should get a better idea aftr them . I know the team will be in condition. I know they will be well coached. I know they will play hard . The X-Factor early is the Indiana team that I haven't really looked at closely yet. I know they have a good program. Not great . But have been very good some years and others more average.
Home opener vs Turpin should be a win . Northmont ? Jerome ? and Groveport Mad ? follow. Jerome has more back and their kids have beaten the Coffman kids at the younger levels pretty consistently . GPM I would need to hear some feedback from scrimmages but they have talent . Northmont loses their move in one-year stud QB [Mom moved from Florida for a few months so he could go to Northmont and play more than 5 games} but has some speed back and a D-1 receiver? Do they have a homegrown back-up or another kid from the countryside coming in to sling it ? Their defense was suspect last year . Will it be better this year ?
Liberty ? Home} New QB , lose a lot of their starters as well .O-Line culture is strong with a stud coming back and they have had size most every year along with being very well coached. Not special talent but some solid athletes who are also well coached and make you beat them . They won't beat themselves or be out of position. Edge Liberty with the coaching continuity? O-line advanatge?
At Orange . New QB, has more back , been pretty solid each year and the Olentangy's in general have been really solid . May be Kramer who is more a Berlin guy ,can give us a nugget or two to chew on where the OCC-Central Olentangy's are concerned. We know the Braves face a large rebuild.
At Davidson . Is there a bigger revenge motive in the league this year than there will be in that game? Davidson got beaten by the other Central foes as well [Liberty {45-7 and UA{35-0} crushed them as well} but their chief rival beat them 49-0 and it was every bit of that score in terms of the stats. Wasn't turnover filled and weird bounces . Just a total butt kicking. Davidson has two very good running backs back. Their QB, , more players than Coffman has. They did improve a bit in their play-off loss to Pick North losing by only 13 . They played two more games after that beating Grove City and losing to Canal Winchester but the point was they played their kids who will be starting or battling for starting roles this year giving them more snaps and experience . Coffman after losing in round three did not play any more games the last two weeks .
They should have played the younger kids in a couple games to help them . Seniors may not have had it in their hearts to play after the tough loss , but the kids coming back should have been given a chance to play a game or two after that loss . Just my opinion.
UA? Clear favorite over the Rocks . At Bradley . This one will be interesting. Jags have more guys back , need a new QB but they have a Soph who looks really good{ 6-3 180} . But they have Mayfield back , A couple Linebackers and a promising Soph Wr. and former Dublin Kid {Karrer} Preston Wolfe who will be a good one. A lot can happen from now till then of course. I'm reasonably confident that the Rocks can win some games , but I am not picturing 7+ as it has been for two decades now. {averaged 8 }
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green hornet
Active member
Brian White was even allowed to eat at the Rusty Bucket in Dublin back in the day! Almost Bill Brasky "esque". I know the Coffman players and coaches respected Davidson.
KramericaIndustries
Moderated User
Orange keeps showing up in top 10 lists and I'm not really sure why. Here's where I currently see their program at:
Orange, like Tangy, suffered some heavy graduation at key positions. But unlike Tangy, they are much more like Liberty in that they have a sheer volume of kids at the school there and have much more stock to pull from. Affluent district with a lot of kids that go to off-season training programs and are multi-sports athletes.
I'm not saying they are Liberty's program, the coaching is definitely not nearly as good and overall ability to re-load with unproven players at the varsity level definitely not as good as it is at Liberty. But they should be much more hopeful about their ability to potentially re-load than a school like Tangy who is just crying out for more kids in the system.
Last year's team was marked by several sizeable kids with a lot of toughness, and the ability to defensively contain a lot of the teams they faced. Especially those with unimaginative Cro-Magnon offenses like Davidson. The better teams with more athletic weapons and modern-thinking OCs like Liberty, Coffman, and Bradley ran circles around them and there is a dramatic difference in stat lines in those games.
After their main RB became unavailable during the second game, the rushing game was largely non-existent and QB (now graduated, amazing baseball player) was actually the biggest threat. Has to be concerning there was no demonstrate-able depth at RB last year.
I was not able to make any of their JV games last year, so I'm less clear on what's coming up thru the ranks. But I do know they had an urgent need at RB last year and no underclassmen stepped up and labeled themselves a significant threat moving forward.
I won't go as far to say Schroeder is a "bad" coach, but he is clearly the 4th best in the Olentangy system. Orange is a school with a large body of well-developed general athletic talent to draw from and if I were a parent over there I would be pretty frustrated with the lack of ability to draw more out of it.
My best guess is, you can count on this team to field a slightly above average defense and lines with size, but much like last year, good teams with athletic skill position kids will ultimately be able to score points. And offensively, I'm not sure there are any all-conference skill position kids there at all, let alone any all-state or college scholarship kinds of threats. Sometimes a rising soph or junior emerges, who knows, Orange desperately needs this if they are to be competitive this year. 6-4 would be above my expectations looking at their schedule.
Orange, like Tangy, suffered some heavy graduation at key positions. But unlike Tangy, they are much more like Liberty in that they have a sheer volume of kids at the school there and have much more stock to pull from. Affluent district with a lot of kids that go to off-season training programs and are multi-sports athletes.
I'm not saying they are Liberty's program, the coaching is definitely not nearly as good and overall ability to re-load with unproven players at the varsity level definitely not as good as it is at Liberty. But they should be much more hopeful about their ability to potentially re-load than a school like Tangy who is just crying out for more kids in the system.
Last year's team was marked by several sizeable kids with a lot of toughness, and the ability to defensively contain a lot of the teams they faced. Especially those with unimaginative Cro-Magnon offenses like Davidson. The better teams with more athletic weapons and modern-thinking OCs like Liberty, Coffman, and Bradley ran circles around them and there is a dramatic difference in stat lines in those games.
After their main RB became unavailable during the second game, the rushing game was largely non-existent and QB (now graduated, amazing baseball player) was actually the biggest threat. Has to be concerning there was no demonstrate-able depth at RB last year.
I was not able to make any of their JV games last year, so I'm less clear on what's coming up thru the ranks. But I do know they had an urgent need at RB last year and no underclassmen stepped up and labeled themselves a significant threat moving forward.
I won't go as far to say Schroeder is a "bad" coach, but he is clearly the 4th best in the Olentangy system. Orange is a school with a large body of well-developed general athletic talent to draw from and if I were a parent over there I would be pretty frustrated with the lack of ability to draw more out of it.
My best guess is, you can count on this team to field a slightly above average defense and lines with size, but much like last year, good teams with athletic skill position kids will ultimately be able to score points. And offensively, I'm not sure there are any all-conference skill position kids there at all, let alone any all-state or college scholarship kinds of threats. Sometimes a rising soph or junior emerges, who knows, Orange desperately needs this if they are to be competitive this year. 6-4 would be above my expectations looking at their schedule.
Groveport will be talented and athletic but young in some areas!
Harrycrane
Well-known member
Very smart observation
Stoke will be taking kids out of their comfort zone.. that is for sure..
Harrycrane
Well-known member
He graduated
Orange&Black64
Active member
Warsaw is nothing but triple option right?
so Coffman played Warsaw last year? how did that game go?