So again. Earlier in the thread football was brought up. This is in reference to D1 football. 6 public school champions and 17 private school champions
Rumor about 6-7 divisions in basketball
- Thread starter Yappi
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Caldwellbasketball
Member
At our district meeting last month we were asked to do a fact finding vote over expansion. The options were 5, 6 and 7 divisions. We also did a vote on the shot clock which was NFHS approved a few years ago and like it or not is coming sooner rather than later. Coaches will adjust, I would venture to guess that outside of the last minute of quarters very few teams have possessions longer than 35 seconds these days. I think it will change how offensive systems are viewed, probably less free flowing motion concepts, more sets ala college and NBA hoops. HS basketball purest will hate it for sure. From a coaching standpoint, one thing I think it will increase is player urgency, no longer will be time for those guys who don't sprint their butt down the floor transitioning from defense to offense (not that there was anyway) but those guys will find even more bench time moving forward.
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
After thinking about this for a little while, I'm OK moving it to 6 divisions but I want the bottom two divisions to be real teams that are not put together by a coach, parents, or even the kids that choose to go play together. Players moving to play on a more competitive team is out of control. Allowing them to win championships in the lower divisions is the opposite of the intent of creating divisions in the first place.
Shelbyrr11
Active member
I read most of this thread, but I don't think I saw this addressed specifically.
I am to assume that both boys and girls would see a similar expansion. If it's unfair for one, why not the other.
If that is so, then what kind of tournament site chaos, if any, does that open up? NW ohio doesn't have home teams host games during sectionals. I think it's on the horizon though.
A 6-7 division format would suggest we need to be open to teams hosting up through District Semis. Even with the variable days that games could be played, we could be talking 14 regional semi games for each boys and girls in any given region if we went to, say, 7 divisions.
The setup for football works, but it seems like a headache for basketball. Currently, BGSU hosts boys regionals in Nw Ohio. Not impossible with four divisions. Seven though? Can we get that to work?
I am to assume that both boys and girls would see a similar expansion. If it's unfair for one, why not the other.
If that is so, then what kind of tournament site chaos, if any, does that open up? NW ohio doesn't have home teams host games during sectionals. I think it's on the horizon though.
A 6-7 division format would suggest we need to be open to teams hosting up through District Semis. Even with the variable days that games could be played, we could be talking 14 regional semi games for each boys and girls in any given region if we went to, say, 7 divisions.
The setup for football works, but it seems like a headache for basketball. Currently, BGSU hosts boys regionals in Nw Ohio. Not impossible with four divisions. Seven though? Can we get that to work?
There would actually be fewer, not more games played. If you did a start with divisions 1-3 one week and divisions 4-7 the next week would you need more venues than currently?
It would help with the shortage of officials to divide the tournament start times by division.
Then we dont need 6 divisions because those schools barely exists. Somebody said it earlier but almost every team at state is an all star team. The days of 7-8 kids playing from 5 years old through high school are flat out gone. Its very rare. My alma mater has been to one state championship because a family from Farrell PA moved here with another kid on his basketball team. With basketball in mind. But heres the kicker.. it happened in 6th grade. Both ended up being scholarship players. This happened at a "do it the right way" public school too. Youll never be able to stop moves like that. It also isnt a new phenomenon.
And quite frankly I dont understand why this forum is hell bent on looking down at these type of decisions and programs that accept them. I also watched my alma mater waste the hell out of a kid at Ruchmond Heights sophmore seasom while losing a district semi game they couldve desperately used him in as a #1 seed. It was coaching malpractice.. His parents were suppose to send him back for his junior year??? Nah
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
Yes the Russia All Star Frog team starring Kermit the Frog.
You see the second word you put in bold?
Here's something I was just thinking about.. Does the new increase in divisions apply only for Basketball?
For example.. Basketball has around 800 teams in the state, and want to split to 6 divisions.. Volleyball has 780 teams, are they going to stick to 4 divisions? That doesn't seem to add up.
Soccer going to stay at 3? With only 567 schools it may be hard for them to add a 4th.
Volleyball definitely seems like the biggest outlier.
For example.. Basketball has around 800 teams in the state, and want to split to 6 divisions.. Volleyball has 780 teams, are they going to stick to 4 divisions? That doesn't seem to add up.
Soccer going to stay at 3? With only 567 schools it may be hard for them to add a 4th.
Volleyball definitely seems like the biggest outlier.
I would think volleyball would be soon to split right after if basketball does. Only 20 school difference. Similar to basketball in the sense of only 6 girls on the court at a time and 2 really good girls can dramatically affect a teams success. I don’t see why it would split to more divisions.
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
This really hits the nail on the head well. Why the hell do we have so many more divisions in football than pretty much every sport?
D1 for basketball is essentially D1-large D3 in football combined. Could you imagine the controversy if that existed?
D2 is small D3 - some of D5
D3 is most of D5-D6
D4 is essentially D7
I think the amount of teams per division should correlate to the amount of kids needed to field the team. The more kids you need to be competitive the more divisions there should be.
Football having the lowest teams/divison since you need the most players
Basketball having the highest since you only need 5
If you want to talk outliers too I’ll take hockey too because ignatius has 1,000 more kids than Brooklyn but they have to play in the only division for hockey. But that’s because only like 75 schools have hockey.
Shelbyrr11
Active member
Assuming all schools still qualify for the tournament, I think the number of games would be close.
At the Sectional Final level, there are 128 teams left. For a four-division setup, that's 64 games x 4 = 256 games
If there are 7 divisions, there are about 100-120ish schools a division. At the District Semi level, it's 32 games x 7 = 224 games. Some districts would still require sectional finals to be played. Give or take the areas where a sectional final is needed, that brings things probably close to what we have now.
My primary thought is if we insist on having neutral sites for district level play.
Right now, there are 16 districts per division, which means about 64 district sites (some sites may share multiple districts I believe).
In 7 division play, that would be 112 district sites.
If we allow higher seeds to host the district-semis, most of this concern goes out the window. If we keep things equal to what we do now, it does introduce a need to find a lot more willing hosts for neutral site games. Staggering the tournament start times is helpful, but if girls basketball goes up to 7 divisions then it's still a heightened need for neutral sites.
RollingTrain
Well-known member
It's not as bad as football, but you'll find less and less schools that want to host for the hassle that comes with it.
NWAD still has host Sectional sites. Those schools could become district sites since the Sectional games will now be high seed host.
They would fall into the "almost" column.
They do now, starting this year.
Sectional games are high seed host. If my math is correct...
Once sectionals are complete there are 256 teams left in Ohio. (64 in each div)
So of the 800 boys team in the state, 544 are eliminated in sectional with 4 divisions. If we went to 7 divisions, after Section play is complete we would now have eliminated 352 teams.
With the difference being 192 would now qualify to the District level that would have been knocked out under the current system.
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
I actually take the opposite approach. A few stars can make a much bigger impact in other sports than one with 24 starting positions & you're more likely to see stars with the bigger schools. Look at last year, you had nothing but D1 football teams in the D1 Final 4. What business do some D3 football sized schools have going up against Pickerington & Centerville? Compare that to football where you could argue schools like Marion Local (D7) would likely be the favorite in D6 & D5 as well
Welp basketball is different. just because you got 1500+ boys at the school does not mean all of them can hoop. Teams like Trotwood(for example D1 hoop and D3 Football) can regularly compete with bigger schools. Demographics and tradition goes both ways.
goshengophers
Active member
Personally, I kind of like 6 divisions rather than 7, for no particular reason other than I think 6 divides into 800 for a tidier number of schools in each division. Also I may have OCD.
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
Sorry for causing your OCD some stress but my guess is they will make the top division have fewer teams than all the other divisions.
basketballdayton
Active member
4 is working, 7 is way too many. Maybe 5.
Reading comprehension is difficult.
You must have never seen a GCL game.
I see. Jesus Christ lol
I agree with the OCD because so do I. I hope your not like myself and stay up at nights worrying about what would happen if it drops down to 799?
Having every team play at least 1 sectional game should be involved in the setup. If any division has less then 128 teams, schools will go directly to a district semi game. I believe under the current 4 division system everyone plays at least 1 sectional game.
If they went with 6 divisions you could evenly divide the teams at 133 in each division knowing that some divisions will have a few more or less due to the schools having the same enrollment numbers.
If they went with 5 divisions they could make D1 have a minimum target of 128 and then take the remaining teams in 4 smaller divisions with a target of 168 team in each.
If they went with 6 divisions you could evenly divide the teams at 133 in each division knowing that some divisions will have a few more or less due to the schools having the same enrollment numbers.
If they went with 5 divisions they could make D1 have a minimum target of 128 and then take the remaining teams in 4 smaller divisions with a target of 168 team in each.