Another Weekend Of Youth Basketball.... Another Weekend Of Fights

AllSports12 said:
It's cash....

It's on the official to properly claim the income.
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Locally one town would pay the umpires, (lowest in the area mind you) via check through their rec dept and take taxes out of it. Umps didnt like to do games there.

We would do under the table pretty much through the park, but I think there was a threshold of like $600 a year. When they hit that mark they had to do it the 'real' way with a check/taxes taken out. Something along those lines was what some umps were telling us. Some would look for subs later in the summer if they were getting to that threshold so they wouldnt get it claimed.
 
thavoice said:
Locally one town would pay the umpires, (lowest in the area mind you) via check through their rec dept and take taxes out of it. Umps didnt like to do games there.
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Huh ? That makes them the employer......
thavoice said:
We would do under the table pretty much through the park, but I think there was a threshold of like $600 a year. When they hit that mark they had to do it the 'real' way with a check/taxes taken out. Something along those lines was what some umps were telling us. Some would look for subs later in the summer if they were getting to that threshold so they wouldnt get it claimed.
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The $600 threshold is often misunderstood (gigantic myth) among people. The $600 is an IRS requirement. If an entity pays an independent contractor (non-employee or other than a corporation) $600 or more, the payer is required to send the payee a 1099.

1099 in hand or not...... All income is taxable.
 
AllSports12 said:
Huh ? That makes them the employer......

The $600 threshold is often misunderstood (gigantic myth) among people. The $600 is an IRS requirement. If an entity pays an independent contractor (non-employee or other than a corporation) $600 or more, the payer is required to send the payee a 1099.

1099 in hand or not...... All income is taxable.
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In reality every official should report themselves as an independent contractor, that way you can write off uniforms, travel, mileage, etc. against your income. If all officials and payers understood this, it would make life a lot easier for the payers and officials wouldn't have to worry about taxes being withheld (they'd still pay them, just not up front)
 
BirdDog10 said:
In reality every official should report themselves as an independent contractor, that way you can write off uniforms, travel, mileage, etc. against your income. If all officials and payers understood this, it would make life a lot easier for the payers and officials wouldn't have to worry about taxes being withheld (they'd still pay them, just not up front)
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Yeah but that would eliminate the tax free money likely all of them are currently taking advantage of. Yes, I know they should be reporting it, but realistically, most refs aren't making THAT much money. I would imagine most do not report their income as most are getting paid in cash.
 
AllSports12 said:
Huh ? That makes them the employer......

The $600 threshold is often misunderstood (gigantic myth) among people. The $600 is an IRS requirement. If an entity pays an independent contractor (non-employee or other than a corporation) $600 or more, the payer is required to send the payee a 1099.

1099 in hand or not...... All income is taxable.
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Good copy.
Yeah, I just know a couple of umps would reach out to us seeng if we could replace them when they were getting close to the 600, generally happened when we also hosted multiple levels of the ACME Tournament (Sectional, District, and/or State)
 
BirdDog10 said:
In reality every official should report themselves as an independent contractor, that way you can write off uniforms, travel, mileage, etc. against your income. If all officials and payers understood this, it would make life a lot easier for the payers and officials wouldn't have to worry about taxes being withheld (they'd still pay them, just not up front)
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They don't have to report themselves as Independent Contractors. They are Independent Contractors. The only officials out there who are not Independent Contractors are MLB, MiLB, NBA, and NFL Officials. They are employees of those organizations. They are W2 wage earners.

The guys who don't want to work more than $600 worth of games with one entity are the one who do not claim the income at all. Handling their business in this fashion is like owning a house without fire insurance.... Odds are that they won't need it, but if something happens, they are screwed royally.
 
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Reasons to officiate:
1. Love the game
2. Like to give back
3. The money

Reasons not to officiate
1. treated like crap
2. The money
3. Paying taxes
4. Alot of travel for little money
5. Driving in bad weather.
6. gas prices
7. wear and tear on my car
8. late nights
9. weekends

My point is aren't there enough reasons for people not to officiate? And we make it harder and harder.
 
OnTheLine85 said:
Yeah but that would eliminate the tax free money likely all of them are currently taking advantage of. Yes, I know they should be reporting it, but realistically, most refs aren't making THAT much money. I would imagine most do not report their income as most are getting paid in cash.
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Many AAU Summer Basketball and Baseball Tournaments Pay Cash but many Summer Assignors also require the Officials to sign their name or initials next to the amount they were paid. The Tournament knows how much they Paid for Officials/Umpires. Many do not report but often there is a paper trail.
 
Vet Observer said:
A few words from Frank Martin on the subject (but it will fall on deaf ears of parents who need it most).

www.thepostgame.com

Frank Martin's Message To Parents In Youth Sports: Please Stop Yelling

Parents in youth sports need to relax about officiating, coaching and their kids, says South Carolina's Frank Martin.
www.thepostgame.com www.thepostgame.com
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I remember this when it came out several years back. It is 100% true. These tournaments need to stop just being about taking in cash every weekend and hold people accountable. Make an announcement at the start of the weekend that everyone's been warned, any excessive abuse to officials, other players and you're out. No refunds. Start this with the head coach of each team. They are in charge of their parents.
One thing I've noticed over the years is the parents will generally mimic the coach's behavior. You get a nut on the sidelines yelling and screaming, and the fans will follow right along.
 
I saw an outdoor 3-on-3 tournament this past weekend in Orrville. Just curious if anyone has experience with these type of events? Are they safer? Easier to officiate? Less parental involvement?

I wasn't close to the event but it seemed to be more player driven than parent/promoter controlled. Seemed the kids were having a good time getting some solid basketball reps in without the craziness of AAU basketball.
 
Yappi said:
I saw an outdoor 3-on-3 tournament this past weekend in Orrville. Just curious if anyone has experience with these type of events? Are they safer? Easier to officiate? Less parental involvement?

I wasn't close to the event but it seemed to be more player driven than parent/promoter controlled. Seemed the kids were having a good time getting some solid basketball reps in without the craziness of AAU basketball.
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Have been asked repeatedly over the years to "officiate" these things.....

Declined every invitation. They're just a different type of circus.
 
OnTheLine85 said:
Yeah but that would eliminate the tax free money likely all of them are currently taking advantage of. Yes, I know they should be reporting it, but realistically, most refs aren't making THAT much money. I would imagine most do not report their income as most are getting paid in cash.
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Out of pure curiosity I wonder what the difference in pay is between doing a legit basketball game in the winter versus doing a summer tournament game.
 
14Red said:
Reasons to officiate:
1. Love the game
2. Like to give back
3. The money

Reasons not to officiate
1. treated like crap
2. The money
3. Paying taxes
4. Alot of travel for little money
5. Driving in bad weather.
6. gas prices
7. wear and tear on my car
8. late nights
9. weekends

My point is aren't there enough reasons for people not to officiate? And we make it harder and harder.
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Did you mean to mention The Money for both? If so, I totally get it.
 
Yappi said:
I saw an outdoor 3-on-3 tournament this past weekend in Orrville. Just curious if anyone has experience with these type of events? Are they safer? Easier to officiate? Less parental involvement?

I wasn't close to the event but it seemed to be more player driven than parent/promoter controlled. Seemed the kids were having a good time getting some solid basketball reps in without the craziness of AAU basketball.
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Our area summer festival hosts a 3 on 3 tourney every year. Assistant coaches from the local high school monitor games, but the players call their own fouls. It gets rough sometimes but there has never been an ugly incident.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
Out of pure curiosity I wonder what the difference in pay is between doing a legit basketball game in the winter versus doing a summer tournament game.
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I can elaborate on this if you really want but it comes down to who's money is being spent.

A high school AD is spending someone else's money that they control and ultimately, breaking even is not an issue (and probably the goal with me saying this having been an AD)

A summer tournament person is spending THEIR money, and profits drive it all. $5 per game increase over a 100 game tournament is $1000.

In my experience as an AD, assignor, and official, getting a raise from high schools for game fees is not easy but certainly reasonable and doable. Getting a raise from non-school events - even when run BY THE SAME PEOPLE (i.e. a baseball coach who is also the AD and the summer tournament business owner) - is like asking for an organ donation.
 
Yappi said:
I saw an outdoor 3-on-3 tournament this past weekend in Orrville. Just curious if anyone has experience with these type of events? Are they safer? Easier to officiate? Less parental involvement?

I wasn't close to the event but it seemed to be more player driven than parent/promoter controlled. Seemed the kids were having a good time getting some solid basketball reps in without the craziness of AAU basketball.
Click to expand...
How old were the players?
 
umpire16 said:
I can elaborate on this if you really want but it comes down to who's money is being spent.

A high school AD is spending someone else's money that they control and ultimately, breaking even is not an issue (and probably the goal with me saying this having been an AD)

A summer tournament person is spending THEIR money, and profits drive it all. $5 per game increase over a 100 game tournament is $1000.

In my experience as an AD, assignor, and official, getting a raise from high schools for game fees is not easy but certainly reasonable and doable. Getting a raise from non-school events - even when run BY THE SAME PEOPLE (i.e. a baseball coach who is also the AD and the summer tournament business owner) - is like asking for an organ donation.
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I was just curious which one provided more bang for the buck from the officials POV.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
Is that $70 per game or for the night? Like if I do JV and Varsity in the same night is it $70 or is $70 for each game?
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Well, not many crews work both ends, but if they did, they'd typically get around $70 for varsity and $45-$50 for the JV.

In the summer..... typically it's $25 no matter the age group
 
AllSports12 said:
Well, not many crews work both ends, but if they did, they'd typically get around $70 for varsity and $45-$50 for the JV.

In the summer..... typically it's $25 no matter the age group
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Down in Cincy the pay has moved up to $30-$35 for AAU and the high school leagues will be $83-$90. The grade school basketball is supposed to be $35 per game this season. That will be the most bang for your buck. Officials are starting to make the powers that be open the purse strings that have been closed for far to long.
 
JElder said:
Down in Cincy the pay has moved up to $30-$35 for AAU and the high school leagues will be $83-$90. The grade school basketball is supposed to be $35 per game this season. That will be the most bang for your buck. Officials are starting to make the powers that be open the purse strings that have been closed for far to long.
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And I heard many youth football leagues down that way are now getting $60 per game..

Basketball is always bringing up the rear.
 
Does anyone have any experiences in other states? Does Ohio pay their high school basketball officials more or less than other states?
 
14Red said:
Does anyone have any experiences in other states? Does Ohio pay their high school basketball officials more or less than other states?
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It was on the lower tier..... That's changing.

There are many that get paid in excess of $100 and get mileage.
 
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