Midwest Athletic Conference 2021

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Stirred not Shaken said:
So who is the bottom team Versailles or Coldwater ? Teams change every year because of graduation. As I stated earlier this is the 2nd time in 3 years 2 of the top teams in the league won't play each other, that is not a benefit to the league overall.
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It's absolutely a benefit to the league overall. Both teams got wins in week 2, rather than one of them getting a loss. This means more computer points for anyone who is able to beat them later in the conference slate. This means a higher chance that more MAC teams play home games in the playoffs.

If Versailles played Coldwater in week 2, they're, in all likelihood, 1-2 at this point in the season. Is it not better for Versailles to be 2-1 and many believing they're a State Championship contender than to be at 1-2?

Also, you could argue the reason Versailles is better over the course of the past few years is because they've benefitted as much as anyone from not having to play someone better than them in week 2, and taking a loss. We can pretend that there is no difference between 2-8 and 1-9 or 3-7 and 4-6, but there is. The MAC absolutely, unequivocally benefits from not playing all other opponents.

Is it a shame that two of top 3 teams in the conference won't play this year? Sure it is. But to say as a whole it doesn't benefit the league overall is incorrect.
 
*67 said:
Also, you could argue the reason Versailles is better over the course of the past few years is because they've benefitted as much as anyone from not having to play someone better than them in week 2, and taking a loss.
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Unless that loss would have kept them out of the playoffs (and it wouldn’t have), I don’t agree that playing a weaker team helped them more then playing a tougher team. No way.
 
serpico said:
Unless that loss would have kept them out of the playoffs (and it wouldn’t have), I don’t agree that playing a weaker team helped them more then playing a tougher team. No way.
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Their last few years (pre-2020) were:
2016: 5-5
2017: 4-6
2018: 2-8
2019: 3-7

They definitely benefitted from playing competitive games against Delphos Jefferson rather than playing someone several places above them in the MAC standings.
 
*67 said:
It's absolutely a benefit to the league overall. Both teams got wins in week 2, rather than one of them getting a loss. This means more computer points for anyone who is able to beat them later in the conference slate. This means a higher chance that more MAC teams play home games in the playoffs.

If Versailles played Coldwater in week 2, they're, in all likelihood, 1-2 at this point in the season. Is it not better for Versailles to be 2-1 and many believing they're a State Championship contender than to be at 1-2?

Also, you could argue the reason Versailles is better over the course of the past few years is because they've benefitted as much as anyone from not having to play someone better than them in week 2, and taking a loss. We can pretend that there is no difference between 2-8 and 1-9 or 3-7 and 4-6, but there is. The MAC absolutely, unequivocally benefits from not playing all other opponents.

Is it a shame that two of top 3 teams in the conference won't play this year? Sure it is. But to say as a whole it doesn't benefit the league overall is incorrect.
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16 teams make the play offs now not 8. Neither Coldwater nor Versailles or any other MAC school will have trouble making the play offs as long as they finish 6-4 or better. Can't use the playoffs as a reason why the MAC should have 2 non league games. Could care less if Versailles is 2 - 1 or 1 - 2 . Unless Marion Local runs the table, once again the MAC will not have a true MAC champion, to me that is more important than if a certain team has 2 losses.
 
If Versailles played CW this year.What if CW beat ML and Versailles beat CW. Could that lead to a three way tie?

Versailles would like to play CW. There has been some good battles for the boys as they have been coming through the ranks.

Will it be easier to find apponents weeks two with more teams making the playoffs?
 
I agree with Stirred here. It's bizarre to me that two of the "top" teams in the MAC aren't going head-to-head this year. I'm not sure if the rationale *67 provided is generally agreed upon by MAC fans, but it reminds me of in education "teaching to the test" instead of just teaching, although in this scenario it's intentionally and strategically avoiding playing your own league members in favor of playing non-league schools so that you have more points come playoff seeding time. I suppose there's nothing wrong with that philosophy, I think it's just outdated now with 16 teams making the playoffs. Especially since (most) MAC teams are all good enough to win in the playoffs regardless of their seeding. I'm sure there's real evidence that shows that benefit of the "bottom" teams not playing the "top" teams and so perhaps it's valid. I'm wondering when Parkway and St. John's are going to rebound since they've been at the bottom a while. Seems like Versailles is back near the top, but the scheduling hasn't caught up yet? I'm wondering if MAC folks give too much credit to their scheduling system when team successes/shortcomings can be attributed in other ways? Ultimately, the MAC is a superior league, if it ain't broke don't fix it, all that good stuff - I don't care if the MAC keeps their current scheduling format. I know how annoyed I get when folks come into the WBL thread wanting the WBL to do the "MAC model." I just think it's a bad look for two of a league's best teams to not go head-to-head, I'd imagine the players would rather go up against the best of the best, their brethren, rather than go 2+ hours around the state, playing club and mismatched teams.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
16 teams make the play offs now not 8. Neither Coldwater nor Versailles or any other MAC school will have trouble making the play offs as long as they finish 6-4 or better. Can't use the playoffs as a reason why the MAC should have 2 non league games. Could care less if Versailles is 2 - 1 or 1 - 2 . Unless Marion Local runs the table, once again the MAC will not have a true MAC champion, to me that is more important than if a certain team has 2 losses.
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If the playoffs stick at 16 I would love to see the MAC go to 9 games.
 
tucson said:
I agree with Stirred here. It's bizarre to me that two of the "top" teams in the MAC aren't going head-to-head this year. I'm not sure if the rationale *67 provided is generally agreed upon by MAC fans, but it reminds me of in education "teaching to the test" instead of just teaching, although in this scenario it's intentionally and strategically avoiding playing your own league members in favor of playing non-league schools so that you have more points come playoff seeding time. I suppose there's nothing wrong with that philosophy, I think it's just outdated now with 16 teams making the playoffs. Especially since (most) MAC teams are all good enough to win in the playoffs regardless of their seeding. I'm sure there's real evidence that shows that benefit of the "bottom" teams not playing the "top" teams and so perhaps it's valid. I'm wondering when Parkway and St. John's are going to rebound since they've been at the bottom a while. Seems like Versailles is back near the top, but the scheduling hasn't caught up yet? I'm wondering if MAC folks give too much credit to their scheduling system when team successes/shortcomings can be attributed in other ways? Ultimately, the MAC is a superior league, if it ain't broke don't fix it, all that good stuff - I don't care if the MAC keeps their current scheduling format. I know how annoyed I get when folks come into the WBL thread wanting the WBL to do the "MAC model." I just think it's a bad look for two of a league's best teams to not go head-to-head, I'd imagine the players would rather go up against the best of the best, their brethren, rather than go 2+ hours around the state, playing club and mismatched teams.
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If the playoffs are at 8 the MAC scheduling made absolute perfect sense especially given their OOC record. Once league play starts, you can't do any better than .500 as a league so why have an extra week of .500 when you could have a week of .750 or .800? It was simple math.

However, I think the MAC also likes their teams to be able to go out and schedule to their level of play. Look at what they do in basketball and volleyball. They could easily do home and away like most leagues do and fill 18 of their 22 games with MAC play. Instead, they only play 9 league games and then have 13 to fill with non-league games. This allows the top teams to schedule top notch competition and the programs who are struggling to find winnable games and build their programs.

Now, go back to football. Marion Local does not play Parkway this year. Would ML benefit more from a week 2 game vs. Parkway or a week 2 game vs. McComb? I bet if you go back over the years you would find a lot more "missed games" like Marion Local and Parkway than you would Versailles vs. Coldwater.
 
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tucson said:
I agree with Stirred here. It's bizarre to me that two of the "top" teams in the MAC aren't going head-to-head this year. I'm not sure if the rationale *67 provided is generally agreed upon by MAC fans, but it reminds me of in education "teaching to the test" instead of just teaching, although in this scenario it's intentionally and strategically avoiding playing your own league members in favor of playing non-league schools so that you have more points come playoff seeding time. I suppose there's nothing wrong with that philosophy, I think it's just outdated now with 16 teams making the playoffs. Especially since (most) MAC teams are all good enough to win in the playoffs regardless of their seeding. I'm sure there's real evidence that shows that benefit of the "bottom" teams not playing the "top" teams and so perhaps it's valid. I'm wondering when Parkway and St. John's are going to rebound since they've been at the bottom a while. Seems like Versailles is back near the top, but the scheduling hasn't caught up yet? I'm wondering if MAC folks give too much credit to their scheduling system when team successes/shortcomings can be attributed in other ways? Ultimately, the MAC is a superior league, if it ain't broke don't fix it, all that good stuff - I don't care if the MAC keeps their current scheduling format. I know how annoyed I get when folks come into the WBL thread wanting the WBL to do the "MAC model." I just think it's a bad look for two of a league's best teams to not go head-to-head, I'd imagine the players would rather go up against the best of the best, their brethren, rather than go 2+ hours around the state, playing club and mismatched teams.
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with the playoffs going to 16 teams, for a money grab by the OHSSA( coaches didn't want 16, if I recall) when it was 8 teams in the playoff, it was a bad idea to have only ONE non conference game.... but if they keep the total at 16, might as well go to playing everybody....
 
Here's what I don't understand.

Why is the MAC schedule determined two years in advance? For instance, I think it was decided at the end of the 2019 season that Coldwater and Versailles wouldn't face each other in '21 and '22.

Why wasn't the '21 and '22 MAC schedule decided upon after the 2020 season? Doing so would've provided a more up-to-date picture of each team's current strength.

There's almost no way the powers that be would have given a 'break' to the '21 and '22 Tigers (by not playing Coldwater) after seeing how well Versailles performed in 2020.

I'm guessing making the schedule early is of benefit to ADs or somehow makes things easier, but I wish it were different.

It certainly appears that ML, CW, and V are the strongest MAC teams this year: why must struggling teams like FR, DSJ, Minster, and Anna play all three of them? That is exactly the situation the MAC was trying to avoid.

I'm probably not fully aware of the situation, but I wish it were different.
 
CJK84 said:
Here's what I don't understand.

Why is the MAC schedule determined two years in advance? For instance, I think it was decided at the end of the 2019 season that Coldwater and Versailles wouldn't face each other in '21 and '22.

Why wasn't the '21 and '22 MAC schedule decided upon after the 2020 season? Doing so would've provided a more up-to-date picture of each team's current strength.

There's almost no way the powers that be would have given a 'break' to the '21 and '22 Tigers (by not playing Coldwater) after seeing how well Versailles performed in 2020.

I'm guessing making the schedule early is of benefit to ADs or somehow makes things easier, but I wish it were different.

It certainly appears that ML, CW, and V are the strongest MAC teams this year: why must struggling teams like FR, DSJ, Minster, and Anna play all three of them? That is exactly the situation the MAC was trying to avoid.

I'm probably not fully aware of the situation, but I wish it were different.
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It's based on the record of the two previous years. So the teams are ranked #1-10 based on their records in 2018 & 2019. #1 doesn't play 10 the two years, #2 doesn't play #9 , etc.

They do two years for home and home scheduling.

Versailles was 3-13 combined in MAC play in 2018 & 2019.
 
BelowTheLine said:
It's based on the record of the two previous years. So the teams are ranked #1-10 based on their records in 2018 & 2019. #1 doesn't play 10 the two years, #2 doesn't play #9 , etc.

They do two years for home and home scheduling.

Versailles was 3-13 combined in MAC play in 2018 & 2019.
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I know that's how it is, but I wish it were different (even though making the changes I want might be more difficult than I understand it to be).

I wish the teams were re-evaluated every year and the schedule reworked every year. That way we'd avoid the problem we currently have of three bottom-tier teams having to play all three of the strongest teams (and thus not catching the break this approach was supposed to provide), while two of the best teams don't play each other.

Imo the schedule is made too far out, and therefore sometimes fails to deliver. Probably not an easy situation to correct, I know.
 
When was the SH-ML frosh game moved from 5 pm to 6pm (as has apparently occurred)?

I hustled to get to SH by 5 only to find the field empty - darn it!!
 
CJK84 said:
I know that's how it is, but I wish it were different (even though making the changes I want might be more difficult than I understand it to be).

I wish the teams were re-evaluated every year and the schedule reworked every year. That way we'd avoid the problem we currently have of three bottom-tier teams having to play all three of the strongest teams (and thus not catching the break this approach was supposed to provide), while two of the best teams don't play each other.

Imo the schedule is made too far out, and therefore sometimes fails to deliver. Probably not an easy situation to correct, I know.
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the key is that they are able to schedule a home and away game..... it's also about the gate too..
 
All of these recent posts are good, but nobody talking about St. Henry vs. Marion Local? Or, did I miss something?
 
CJK84 said:
Here's what I don't understand.

Why is the MAC schedule determined two years in advance? For instance, I think it was decided at the end of the 2019 season that Coldwater and Versailles wouldn't face each other in '21 and '22.

Why wasn't the '21 and '22 MAC schedule decided upon after the 2020 season? Doing so would've provided a more up-to-date picture of each team's current strength.

There's almost no way the powers that be would have given a 'break' to the '21 and '22 Tigers (by not playing Coldwater) after seeing how well Versailles performed in 2020.

I'm guessing making the schedule early is of benefit to ADs or somehow makes things easier, but I wish it were different.

It certainly appears that ML, CW, and V are the strongest MAC teams this year: why must struggling teams like FR, DSJ, Minster, and Anna play all three of them? That is exactly the situation the MAC was trying to avoid.

I'm probably not fully aware of the situation, but I wish it were different.
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Your wondering similar thoughts as I have.

With expanded playoffs I've wondered if the MAC could go back to 9 conference games? If 4-6 gets you in it's not near as important to face top OOC teams as has been the case.
 
People forget the main reason the MAC went to an 8 game schedule was not to get more teams in the playoffs. That was just a bonus.

The main reason is to give the teams at the bottom of the league a chance to avoid an almost certain blowout loss and to instead play a more enjoyable, game with a chance at a victory. That reason remains.
 
Rangerfan said:
People forget the main reason the MAC went to an 8 game schedule was not to get more teams in the playoffs. That was just a bonus.

The main reason is to give the teams at the bottom of the league a chance to avoid an almost certain blowout loss and to instead play a more enjoyable, game with a chance at a victory. That reason remains.
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not sure about that, sure that maybe was a reason, but it was because of the lack of points and not being able make the playoffs. Is that your personal opinion, or did some AD's tell you that?
 
I was the guy who made the proposal, setup the schedule and talked to the ADs. It was put in motion to keep the Fort Recovery (and potentially New Bremen) football programs in the MAC. Getting more teams in the playoffs was not a reason I was asked to make the proposal, though I did show how I thought tha would be a result.
 
Indiandad said:
Fort Recovery dropping fast.... will 4 wins be enough for a 15 seed?
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Like a meteor.
I'm not sure. Honestly I'm thinking DSJ and Parkway will beat the Indians...Playing Minster woulda been nice this year, but I think the Wildcats would also best us.
The Fort is extremely frustrating to watch right now.
 
Rangerfan said:
I was the guy who made the proposal, setup the schedule and talked to the ADs. It was put in motion to keep the Fort Recovery (and potentially New Bremen) football programs in the MAC. Getting more teams in the playoffs was not a reason I was asked to make the proposal, though I did show how I thought tha would be a result.
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Do you have any ideas how they could have looked at the Versailles program 2 years ago and predicted they would be in the top half of the league the last two years.
 
Week 5 picks :
ML 34 Minster 8 Does Frosh Drew Lause become the starting running back for the Flyers this week.
Coldwater 49 DSJ 6
NB 27 Anna 14 This might be a very good game.
Versailles 47 FR 6
SH 42 Parkway 6
 
IndianaBanana said:
Like a meteor.
I'm not sure. Honestly I'm thinking DSJ and Parkway will beat the Indians...Playing Minster woulda been nice this year, but I think the Wildcats would also best us.
The Fort is extremely frustrating to watch right now.
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Cats are very young at this point and counted 12 kids not playing this past Sat because of injuries..... I'm just glad the Bluejays got their JV's some playing time, with around 2 minutes left in the game up by 27....
 
bigkat said:
whats the word on the Seitz boy?
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FWIW, heard through 2nd hand info that Seitz may be back the middle of Oct. Unfortunately Robbie Buschur ( 3rd team All State D - End, 1st team All MAC last season, also plays tackle on offense ) ) was injured in the Versailles game and is most likely out till the end of reg. season.
 
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