would it be legal?

Crimsonblooded

Crimsonblooded

Well-known member
Would it be legal for middle schooler to compete for a club while being on their middle school team, staying out of any competition until December 28th. After such date then competing in a competition or two for school then ceasing to compete for school while picking back up for club team? Just curious as Dec. 28th given as deadline for non-scholastic and hearing where kids ceased competing for middle school to compete in philo. Could it be done legally without school violation as I stated above?
 
 
Is it legal

No not that I'm aware of. I had a kid who wrestled for us and his dad took him to compete elsewhere as well and it almost cost us an undefeated season.
 
Those northern guys like delta would front load their schedule then be done with middle school and their schedule in time for Tulsa nationals. not sure where philo falls into that schedule but theres still some time left on a middle school schedule if i recall. Personally I sentmy son strictly club so we didnt have to deal with all these issues from MS, I wouldnt change a thing, we practiced less during the week, and competed on weekends, this eliminated alot of wear and tear and burn out. and eliminated all the worry from ohsaa.

I would not start middle school then try to compete as a club mid season, it could cost you mat time as a high schooler. pick one or the other depending on your kids wants/needs. MS has a lot of first time wrestlers that need proper training/coaching, where as the club level your ready to rumble from the get go.
 
pwarriors said:
No not that I'm aware of. I had a kid who wrestled for us and his dad took him to compete elsewhere as well and it almost cost us an undefeated season.
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Just curious, before competing "elsewhere" did he already compete for the school and then return and compete again?
 
Donkability said:
Those northern guys like delta would front load their schedule then be done with middle school and their schedule in time for Tulsa nationals. not sure where philo falls into that schedule but theres still some time left on a middle school schedule if i recall. Personally I sentmy son strictly club so we didnt have to deal with all these issues from MS, I wouldnt change a thing, we practiced less during the week, and competed on weekends, this eliminated alot of wear and tear and burn out. and eliminated all the worry from ohsaa.

I would not start middle school then try to compete as a club mid season, it could cost you mat time as a high schooler. pick one or the other depending on your kids wants/needs. MS has a lot of first time wrestlers that need proper training/coaching, where as the club level your ready to rumble from the get go.
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My kid is in 7th and doing club 1st and foremost. But after Dec 28th, the deadline for non-scholastic, then we would be good to start middle school competition. Then after starting, if you will (declaring ourselves ineligible) by resuming club and ceasing middle school competition. I'm thinking there is no repercussions for such actions. As it would be legal at the start and later as the violation would occur there would be no continuation of participation at the middle school level to warrant any action. Sure it's premeditated but I'm thinking legal to pull off.
 
Pretty sure you're OK just keep in mind that "competition" includes scrimmages and previews


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You're not considered a member of the team by ohsaa until you participate in a preview, scrimmage, or meet.


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You should be fine, just don't wrestle in any type of contest with the middle school team until your club season is over...
 
You can "practice" middle school and compete club (i.e. non-interscholastic) until the non-interscholastic date and then "compete" middle school (scrimmage, preview, or match) and remain eligible.

What you cannot do is "compete" middle school, then "compete" non-interscholastic (i.e. club or outside of the middle school structure), and return to middle school. That would render you out of the middle school season from therein.
 
I dont think"legal" is the right term.
Your situation would make the athlete ineligible to compete for the ms, but under your circumstance you are fine with that. The reprecussion is he can not wrestle for his ms team anymore. If you are fine with that, then your good.
 
It can also get the TEAM in some trouble if someone wants to push the issue! Maybe the best choice is choose club or the ms team. Talk to your MS coach and see what they are comfortable with?
 
cosh wrestling dad said:
It can also get the TEAM in some trouble if someone wants to push the issue! Maybe the best choice is choose club or the ms team. Talk to your MS coach and see what they are comfortable with?
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The athlete and/ or school would only be in trouble if the athlete were to compete again for the ms. There is nothing requiring them to finish the season with the school.

There is no rule being broken if the athlete leaves to wrestle club, the rule would be they can not return, if they don't return, no one is in trouble. It really does not matter what the MS coach is comfortable with. If the best option for your son is to wrestle some club and some school, then that is the best option. If you make it work so it is within the rules and you are good to go.
 
As a coach, if a wrestler chose to wrestle club over Jr. Hi. and then came back half way through the season, I don't think I'd have a spot for him over another wrestler who has been competing for the team the entire season.
 
talgers said:
As a coach, if a wrestler chose to wrestle club over Jr. Hi. and then came back half way through the season, I don't think I'd have a spot for him over another wrestler who has been competing for the team the entire season.
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You left the topic with your feelings, last year we had 8 kids on the team. Most tournaments we are in take doubles. That is not the issue!
 
suplex21 said:
The athlete and/ or school would only be in trouble if the athlete were to compete again for the ms. There is nothing requiring them to finish the season with the school.

There is no rule being broken if the athlete leaves to wrestle club, the rule would be they can not return, if they don't return, no one is in trouble. It really does not matter what the MS coach is comfortable with. If the best option for your son is to wrestle some club and some school, then that is the best option. If you make it work so it is within the rules and you are good to go.
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That is what I'm thinking, thanks
 
Maple Stang said:
wrong
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Not wrong, I got it straight from the OHSAA's mouth.

I emailed their wrestling rules person Loewenstine and got a reply from Beau Rugg.

Here's my question I sent... word for word.

Mr. Loewenstine,
I understand for high school wrestling there is a final date of 42 days before (December 28 last season) the start of the state tournament that any non-scholastic participation (club/open tournaments) has to stop. I also understand that once an athlete wrestles his/her first scrimmage or Match with the school even if it is earlier than that date they can obviously not return to club/open tournaments until after the season is over.

My question is for Junior High. I can not find such a "hard date" given in the Junior High wrestling manual. Is there a date? And if so is it the same date as high school by default?

Thanks for your time,
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Here is the reply I got from Mr. Rugg.

MR. JMOG,



The non-interscholastic date is for those athletes that want to be eligible for OHSAA state tournaments. There is no date for the Middle School athlete. They may join a team at any point that the school allows and may compete in non-interscholastic events until they compete for the school.



Please let me know if you have any questions.



Beau




Beau Rugg

Assistant Commissioner

brugg@ohsaa.org

P: 614-267-2502 x 111




----- Original Message -----


From: Richard Loewenstine


To: Jim Vreeland ; Chief Anthony


Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 8:02 PM


Subject: Fwd: Junior High Wrestling question






Jim/Ray.....any info on this....see below.

Dick
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I obviously changed my name to jmog in the text but all of the rest is straight copy/paste.

Now, some leagues may have certain rules to wrestle in their league tournament but since there are NO OHSAA sanctioned state tournaments for junior high there is no "hard date" like the Dec 28 date of last year.

I hate to be rude but seriously, telling someone they are wrong you should at least know for a fact.


If posting that copy/paste with the OSHAA people's email/phone numbers on there is wrong please delete this, but their information is right on the website and rules handbooks so I figured it was ok.
 
Maple Stang said:
You cannot compete for MS if you are with club team AFTER your MS first practice date
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This is wrong, you can not compete if you go to a club/open tournament after you compete in a scrimmage or match with your MS team.

The careful thing has to be taken when some teams have combined practices with other MS teams, they can be/are considered scrimmages.
 
bucksman said:
You can "practice" middle school and compete club (i.e. non-interscholastic) until the non-interscholastic date and then "compete" middle school (scrimmage, preview, or match) and remain eligible.

What you cannot do is "compete" middle school, then "compete" non-interscholastic (i.e. club or outside of the middle school structure), and return to middle school. That would render you out of the middle school season from therein.
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Exactly, and there is no hard date like HS (last year was Dec 28 for HS).
 
talgers said:
As a coach, if a wrestler chose to wrestle club over Jr. Hi. and then came back half way through the season, I don't think I'd have a spot for him over another wrestler who has been competing for the team the entire season.
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1. Most MS tournaments allow multiple entries per weight for a team.
2. Let's assume the club kid that you won't let on your team is going to wrestle for your HS down the road since he does obviously go to school there. You really would hurt your HS program by not allowing a kid to get the best possible competition within OSHAA rules? Sounds like a good idea
 
talgers said:
As a coach, if a wrestler chose to wrestle club over Jr. Hi. and then came back half way through the season, I don't think I'd have a spot for him over another wrestler who has been competing for the team the entire season.
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Even if he clearly would win the wrestle off?
How does that mentality help the school and high school program?
The point of middle schools is to get these kids ready for high school. If you run a stud of or "don't have a spot for him" that kid is probably going to look for another program. If you accept that every kid has their own ways to be great and accept all backgrounds and decisions, you may snag a stud for your high school team.
 
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