Win-Loss record without forfeits

Cjlewis01

Active member
On Baumspage, I saw a new set of information needing entered in...

I have never seen that before. Was that mentioned ever before the February Update from Tyler Brooks?

What's it being used for? Is it really necessary?

Can it hurt my wrestlers if they have a bunch of forfeits?
 

BuckeyeFan94

Active member
On Baumspage, I saw a new set of information needing entered in...

I have never seen that before. Was that mentioned ever before the February Update from Tyler Brooks?

What's it being used for? Is it really necessary?

Can it hurt my wrestlers if they have a bunch of forfeits?
By my understanding this is being implemented due to the lack of tournament competitions this year. Since the season has been primarily duals it is the states inference that many athletes may have “inflated” records. So they want the records without forfeits to help determine better seed position.
 

MPhillips

Well-known member
By my understanding this is being implemented due to the lack of tournament competitions this year. Since the season has been primarily duals it is the states inference that many athletes may have “inflated” records. So they want the records without forfeits to help determine better seed position.
:rolleyes:
 

DonnieDarko

Member
Yeah, especially with the very light and the heavier weights, it’s very likely there are kids with winning records on paper that lost many/most of their real matches. Like half of my wins my sophmore year were forfeits at 215 and that was obviously a long time ago when teams had way more kids than today. Without tournaments and way more duals than usual, there are going to be a lot of padded records.
 

mlagdd

Member
The one issue I have with this is that often times an opposing team won't send anyone out against a really good kid forcing them to take the forfeit. I have seen this happen numerous times this year with having a schedule of only duals.
 

Cjlewis01

Active member
I dont care that it's being done if:

1. It is used as a tiebreaker
2. I am told about it prior to the season

I dont know if I want to invalidate a kid's wins because someone else either chose not to wrestle him, or they didn't have a wrestler there when he made weight.

I don't think I would have done things differently coaching wise as I usually move guys up to get matches already if they are getting a forfeit...

I just felt unprepared.
 

CoachJules

Active member
Hoping it is not used, noticed at my sectional most coaches were honest about it, but a few coaches listed their kids with the same record without forfeits. No point in doing it if not all coaches are being honest.
 

DarnDude

Member
If the thought is receiving team points for a forfeit in a dual counts as a win, then do the same coaches count a bye in a bracket tournament after winning your next round as a win? With having at least the sectional & district tournament results for last year & this years results, should be enough to separate the best kids at sectionals.
 

Coach McCoy

Well-known member
Yea, I noticed that he had a State Placement in the criteria. How is that possible when Ohio did not even have a state tourney last year? I didn't see State Place in any other sectional pre seeds. Interesting.
 

Coach McCoy

Well-known member
Looked again at the pre seeds at Lakota East and even if you take away the State Place criteria that wrestler still has the criteria to be at the top based on what the criteria calls for so I guess it doesn't matter. Just strange to have a State Place in criteria when we did not even have a State Tourney last year.
 

93 red ls

Well-known member
They also are using Non Ohio State tournament placement as seeding points as well. Didn’t realize that was a thing.
I wouldnt think thats the case. We just had our seed meeting for Batavia last night.
I asked the question about why records without forfeits was even on there. IMO (as its been stated above by others) Its not your kids fault if he makes weight and the school you wrestle either dodges him or they dont have someone for him to wrestle.

As far as non ohio state tourneys used for seeding I am confused. You can use their placement in any event to "sell" your kid to other coaches. Or are you saying if a kid placed high at a "bigger" tournament they slid that kid above someone with a better record? Im not sure what you are explaining happened.
 

suplex21

Active member
Looked again at the pre seeds at Lakota East and even if you take away the State Place criteria that wrestler still has the criteria to be at the top based on what the criteria calls for so I guess it doesn't matter. Just strange to have a State Place in criteria when we did not even have a State Tourney last year.
Actually if you take out his criteria (if he wrestled state somewhere else, obviously district placement is also out of state) he drops to the 4 seed.
 

jmog

Well-known member
If the thought is receiving team points for a forfeit in a dual counts as a win, then do the same coaches count a bye in a bracket tournament after winning your next round as a win? With having at least the sectional & district tournament results for last year & this years results, should be enough to separate the best kids at sectionals.
It’s actually a rule that a dual meet forfeit counts as win and that a bye in a bracket tournament does not.
 
I wouldnt think thats the case. We just had our seed meeting for Batavia last night.
I asked the question about why records without forfeits was even on there. IMO (as its been stated above by others) Its not your kids fault if he makes weight and the school you wrestle either dodges him or they dont have someone for him to wrestle.

As far as non ohio state tourneys used for seeding I am confused. You can use their placement in any event to "sell" your kid to other coaches. Or are you saying if a kid placed high at a "bigger" tournament they slid that kid above someone with a better record? Im not sure what you are explaining happened.
I think this was put in for the kids that are 11-14....yet their record is 0-14..
In the Alexander sectional, this is the case..
So if your kid is 26-2 or 17-2... Not much different
 

93 red ls

Well-known member
I think this was put in for the kids that are 11-14....yet their record is 0-14..
In the Alexander sectional, this is the case..
So if your kid is 26-2 or 17-2... Not much different
BUT if you are 11-14 (even with forfeits) you cant be seeded right? you need a winning record.
We had a few cases in our seed meeting last night where the kids record with FF's was over .500 but without FF's was below .500
 

WishYouWereHere

Active member
The point is... given the chance, a few coaches will “stretch” the truth.
Just like “all” wrestlers made weight for duals with home weigh-ins. And “all” wrestlers made scratch weight at least once this year.
 
I wouldnt think thats the case. We just had our seed meeting for Batavia last night.
I asked the question about why records without forfeits was even on there. IMO (as its been stated above by others) Its not your kids fault if he makes weight and the school you wrestle either dodges him or they dont have someone for him to wrestle.

As far as non ohio state tourneys used for seeding I am confused. You can use their placement in any event to "sell" your kid to other coaches. Or are you saying if a kid placed high at a "bigger" tournament they slid that kid above someone with a better record? Im not sure what you are explaining happened.
Since Batavia had their see meeting last night, do you know why the seeds haven't been posted on Baumspage yet? Asking for a friend ;-)
 

LucMurphy134

Well-known member
This year is such an anomaly due to the lack of tournaments and challenges in scheduling which in most cases reduced the number of matches, and head-to-head results that might have served as criteria in separating kids with similar resumes. As stated earlier, forfeits tend to be more common in the lighter and heavy ends of the spectrum so logically should mean that all should be impacted relatively equally. It also gives coaches more of an incentive to duck tough wrestlers. In my mind, a forfeit is a win period, but I can see how it could address the issue of strength of schedule vs win% issue. Presumably, teams that are wrestling a weaker schedule are more likely to see teams with holes in the lineup (more forfeit wins), while the opposite is likely true for teams that sought better competition. The flip side of that is that teams that have wrestled a tougher schedule (full & competitive lineups) may have a lower win%, but are likely more battle-tested and prepared for the grind of the postseason.

Ultimately it shouldn't matter all that much. Just Win and Advance fellas!
 
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93 red ls

Well-known member
Since Batavia had their see meeting last night, do you know why the seeds haven't been posted on Baumspage yet? Asking for a friend ;-)
haha yea I believe Tim the site manager said that he was going to wait until weigh ins he didnt want to release the brackets then have a kid no make weight I believe and have to re-do them
 

coolguy

Well-known member
You're not following what I said. Give LE a chance to make any fixes that are needed. Seed meeting hasn't even happened. You're only looking at info the coaches input.
 
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