What has happened to the State Tournament

Jim Behrens said:
Your "confusion" is to be expected.
No contradiction at all, you just don't comprehend. There is a difference.
Just wondering if you stay up nights trying to think of new ways to be clever but, in reality, really being stupid?
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My bad Jim. Of course it couldn't be your fault! Its just hard for my little brain to comprehend the words of the great Jim Behrens. Please, next time put it in layman's terms for us simple minded, lower life forms who aren't as "in-the-know" as people like you. Thank the heavens for people like Jim Behrens, King Turd of the yappi forum.

How's that for stupid Jimbo! I can be real clever about being stupid. Didn't even take me all night!

...Oh, and you contradicted the crap out of yourself...

Have a good day Jimbo
 
For as long as there are three boys divisions, and the girls are single class, there are more benefits than negatives to having the events in one venue and held concurrently. Economies of scale in all different aspects.

As girls wrestling evolves, depending on how it evolves, the structure of the season, state series, and so forth will be adapted appropriately.
 
wrestlfan said:
my point is those claiming that there are now FOUR divisions of wrestling since the girls were added... NO, there are divisions 1, 2, and 3.
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That’s literally the language ohsaa is using.
GrizzlyDad said:
My question is how do u have a 3x in the sports first year being recognized by the ohsaa? Last year and before no qualifying everyine made it, that is a club sport not an ohsaa sponsored sport. So if a boy won ohway high school the last 2 years I guess he’s a 2x because it’s the same thing not a ohsaa sponsored event.
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there have been qualifying tournaments I. 2020-21 and 2021-22. It was never considered a club sport, language has been in state rules and regs since 2020 with weight classes, etc. This is bc it has technically been co-Ed wrestling (even though a large large majority have been boys). The “sanctioning” was for the sponsoring of the post-season series. Furthermore, the record-extension has precedent: lacrosse records extend from priori to sanctioning into OHSAA era. It’s not a perfect model, but I think it was handled ok with how the announcer worded it. The first 4x OHSAA champ obviously will be more prestigious, but it’s still really cool.

anyone is welcome to DM me with questions, I’m not going to play in the sandbox here.
 
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He'sStuckAreYouBlind said:
GIRLS GO BACK TO HAVING THEIR OWN TOURNAMENT. There, problems solved! Love that girls are wrestling and the sport is growing, but don't make them an inconvenience for the boys. Taking away from the boys to give to the girls is not the way it should be done. I've been to every tournament since 1998. OHSAA tourny used to be beautiful, this year was a huge let down. Duration of the sessions was dreadful for fans, even worse for the athletes. Mats need to be folkstyle. Freestyle setup and color scheme was confusing for the average fan, officials, and some of the wrestlers. I seen a couple blown calls and a few wrestlers quit wrestling near the edge because of the confusion. The old setup looked and worked much better. Finals presentation looked terrible without the stage and the mat layout didn't help. No awards for the fans to see AND IT IS IMPORTANT. I was 8 years old watching Jared Opfer receive his medal and standing ovation in 1999, it meant something to me then, and it meant something to me every time after that. One of the hardest tournaments to win in the country and you're stupid if you don't think it should be recognized infront of the whole crowd. It's something kids work their entire young lives to accomplish, it's not just some medal, it's a dream.
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Times are changing , the girls are here to stay as they should be !!! They went through many changes this year some good and some bad . They will work it out . The 90s are gone so we need start embracing the changes !!
 
Girls wrestling IS here to stay. Thats awesome! I have a daughter that's been wrestling since she could walk. I'm all for it!

They won't stay WITH THE BOYS for much longer. We want them to grow, they will, and they'll outgrow being able to wrestle alongside the boys.
 
A better solution would be 12 mats. Keep the girls. You added wrestlers and matches. 12 mats would fit, you might not have as much room around the edges. Run on all 12 mats except for the finals when you go down to 4 mats. Get rid of the preassigned mats it would help with the flow of wrestling and the empty mats.
 
tt22 said:
A better solution would be 12 mats. Keep the girls. You added wrestlers and matches. 12 mats would fit, you might not have as much room around the edges. Run on all 12 mats except for the finals when you go down to 4 mats. Get rid of the preassigned mats it would help with the flow of wrestling and the empty mats.
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Getting rid of preassignments would be CHAOS for the fans to follow along with who is coming up, when and where. Can't keep sacrificing convenience and structure for the sake of "making it work". Some things aren't meant to work.
 
GrizzlyDad said:
My question is how do u have a 3x in the sports first year being recognized by the ohsaa? Last year and before no qualifying everyine made it, that is a club sport not an ohsaa sponsored sport. So if a boy won ohway high school the last 2 years I guess he’s a 2x because it’s the same thing not a ohsaa sponsored event.
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We had a similar conversation in the tunnel last weekend.

What do you think the odds are that next year, next to the three time and four time boys pictures, we see three time and four time girls photos? Up on the big screen as well? Based on the way they handled the announcement, I'd be hard pressed to believe that's not coming...
 
Buckeye454 said:
We had a similar conversation in the tunnel last weekend.

What do you think the odds are that next year, next to the three time and four time boys pictures, we see three time and four time girls photos? Up on the big screen as well? Based on the way they handled the announcement, I'd be hard pressed to believe that's not coming...
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See Knightflyer150's post above for your answer.
 
He'sStuckAreYouBlind said:
What about it? They have the equal opportunities to participate. Title 9 doesn't mean that they have to participate on the same days and in the same places. If that were the case, why is men and women's basketball on different weekends? I don't want their sport gone, I want it out of the boys tournament.
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While the time does not matter, the place has to be comparable. So the girls can't just be at a high school while the boys are at the Schott. And since it does not make financial sense to currently rent out the Schott (or comparable venue) just for the girls, they share.
 
Number one priority has to be a venue to hold this Thursday-Saturday. They should have told OSU to stick it last year. The OSU has not done any favors with not wanting it Thursday and not wanting to interfere with the Arnold. A central location is desired, but the trade off has been a season running too long and a state finals on a Sunday. Find a venue Thursday-Saturday even if that means the girls need a difficult venue
 
Dionysus said:
Number one priority has to be a venue to hold this Thursday-Saturday. They should have told OSU to stick it last year. The OSU has not done any favors with not wanting it Thursday and not wanting to interfere with the Arnold. A central location is desired, but the trade off has been a season running too long and a state finals on a Sunday. Find a venue Thursday-Saturday even if that means the girls need a difficult venue
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There won't be hotels if it's the weekend of Arnold. Hotels by the airport were almost 400 dollars a night for any of the rooms that were actually left according to the sales manager at our hotel.
 
He'sStuckAreYouBlind said:
My bad Jim. Of course it couldn't be your fault! Its just hard for my little brain to comprehend the words of the great Jim Behrens. Please, next time put it in layman's terms for us simple minded, lower life forms who aren't as "in-the-know" as people like you. Thank the heavens for people like Jim Behrens, King Turd of the yappi forum.

How's that for stupid Jimbo! I can be real clever about being stupid. Didn't even take me all night!

...Oh, and you contradicted the crap out of yourself...

Have a good day Jimbo
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Nice! Agreed! Arrogance is the problem with those ref's who don't belong, saying stuff like " Lets hit him again! hit em again!1 With an unsportsmanlike for celebrating. It takes a real 🤡 reeking of self importance to act like that.
 
Dionysus said:
Number one priority has to be a venue to hold this Thursday-Saturday. They should have told OSU to stick it last year. The OSU has not done any favors with not wanting it Thursday and not wanting to interfere with the Arnold. A central location is desired, but the trade off has been a season running too long and a state finals on a Sunday. Find a venue Thursday-Saturday even if that means the girls need a difficult venue
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If this is factual, The OSU has some explaining to do. I called and went to voice-mail. Here is a contact I believe. Keep it professional in inquiries.
Ohio Stadium
411 Woody Hayes Dr.
Columbus, OH 43210

Email: scarletandgrayvenues@osu.edu
Phone: 614-247-1739
 
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Campolongo said:
I'll re-post again now that state is finished. Curious on thoughts now----


Unpopular, but effective ---

Find a new venue (all held in same venue) to hold 8 mats (not 10).
State event will go 4 days in entirety with each division completing their portion in 2 days.
Rotate which divisions go on which days and with what other division to ensure equality.

Thursday - Sunday time frame. Everyone sacrifices their Sundays every 2 years.

EXAMPLE
Day 1 & Day 2 --- Division I & Division II state tournament
Day 3 & Day 4 --- Division III & Girls state tournament

The following year .....
Day 1 & Day 2 --- Girls & Division I state tournament
Day 3 & Day 4 --- Division II & Division III state tournament


Keep that rotation; similar to soccer's rotation as to the order of championship games between the 3 divisions.


Less mats needed, less time spent in the gym, new venue (could be smaller size). Nutter Center comes to mind as just an example of one that could host.

Do it right and you could even (possibly) bring back the stage as a smaller one is needed for just 2 mats. More hands on deck to help set-up and tear down but it's an idea.
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I like your thinking, but if we could afford a 4th day, we could easily fit the whole tournament in the Schott, right? Unless the thinking is that we save a ton of money on 4 days at a smaller venue vs 4 days at Schott? If it doesn’t save a lot of money, I’m more in favor of trying to return the number of matches back to closer to 1300 rather than close to 1700 like it was this year. Bucksman mentioned that MN sends 8 girls per weight class. Considering they don’t have enough numbers to necessitate 2 qualifier rounds (Sectional and Districts) like the boys, I think for now it’s fair to limit the girls to 8-person brackets. That would shave at least 224 matches off the total, leaving us with 1456 total matches.
Also, I haven’t heard this mentioned yet, but Saturday when they deduce the mats to 8 instead of the traditional 9 with 3 divisions each wrestling on 9, we could leave it at 10 mats. The girls got done early consistently due to the increased number of pins. We could have Mats 1,2 be D1 all time, Mats 4,5 be D2 all time, Mats 7,8 be D3 all time, and Mats 9,10 be girls all time. That leaves Mat 3 to alternate between D1 & D2 and Mat 6 to alternate between D2 & D3 which would speed things up.
 
You’re going to lose a certain percentage of the crowd in a wrestling tournament. Only a very small percentage of people are there to see “other” kids wrestle. I don’t have exact numbers but I’ll bet there is a way to get nearly exact percentages of the following demographics that show up to the OHSAA Wrestling tournament:

A) Wrestlers there to compete.
B) Coaches there to coach their competitors.
C) Family members of the competitors
D) Alumni/Faculty of schools who have competitors representing their school.
E) College Recruiters
F) Former coaches, referees and former and future wrestlers (I see parents of peewees there with their kids a lot) who are genuinely entertained by watching competitors that they don’t really know, compete.

I’m not going to pretend to know the exact percentages of each of these groups, but you all should be able to imagine pretty accurately. Now, let’s all be brutally honest here.- the only group that there is any chance of staying longer than they need to, is group F. Group F is not that big.

That being said, holding off giving ANY medals to any competitors until AFTER the heavyweights forces all the placers, most of the coaches and most of the family members of the placers to stick around to watch the heavyweights.

This should be the end of this debate. If you’re worried about the most amount of spectators watching the most amount of minutes of wrestling, the only way to do that is to hold off all medal ceremonies until after Heavyweights wrestle.
 
CedarBuck92 said:
While the time does not matter, the place has to be comparable. So the girls can't just be at a high school while the boys are at the Schott. And since it does not make financial sense to currently rent out the Schott (or comparable venue) just for the girls, they share.
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Please quote text from Title 9 that states everyone deserves the same venue or at least a "comparable" venue. Our schools don't even HAVE to carry a girls wrestling team if there's not enough interest! They don't HAVE to have a comparable venue either. Where does the "equality" issue end? It's a bottomless rabbit hole. Gotta love Title 9 though! It's killing our men's sports. One of the main reasons many college wrestling programs have been dropped, but hey, let's keep supporting it!
 
Pinwho1 said:
If you want to see alot of head and arms and chin whips??? Like watching d1 youth. 95%
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Agreed. I also see numbers will decline soon enough, of course INITIALLY there was an increase. But the difficulty of continuing in a college program, getting a scholarship ......injuries will eventually cull the herd. As for them getting "better" watch Women's Olympic Westling where many have as many years in as some of the boys ....NONE of them are even close to a High school above average wrestling MALE. Piggybacking off the Boy's is BS.
 
The quality of the girls wrestling will improve...give it time.
According to the latest FLO Rankings, there were 11 Nationally ranked wrestlers competing on the girls side (one division) vs 19 competing on the boys side (3 divisions):
100- Makennah Craft 5th- State Champion 100
100- Riley Banyas 13th- State 5th 100
106- Chloe Dearwester 8th- State Champ 105
112- Haley Snyder 18th - State Champ 110
117- Kira Cole 11th- State Champ 115
122- Josie Davis 8th- State 3rd 125
122- Raegan Briggs 26h- State Champ 125
No one ranked from Ohio at 132, 138, 144, 152, or 180
164-Alexandria Alli 27th- Did not compete
200- Savannah Isaac 1st and P4P 8th- State Champ 190
200- Laney Oliver 24th- State Runner-up 190
225- Alaina Jackson 4th- State Champ 235
225- Karlie Harlow 16th- State 5th 235

Only one match was between nationally ranked girls- the 190 finals and my personal favorite.

More girls will continue to challenge themselves and seek tougher competition nationally and that will translate to better quality matches at state over time. Hopefully less chin-whips and head and arms, because the girls who do them locally, do not win with them nationally. I have seen first-hand the notorious chin-whippers lose at national tournaments to more fundamentally sound wrestlers, but they are all actively working to improve their technique. Those girls looking to reach the top of the podium next year will need to wrestle at the level of our nation's best girls, which of course is not at the level of the nation's best boys.

For the boys, 19 FLO Ranked wrestlers:
Division 1 with 15 wrestlers
106- Ethan Timar 11th- State Champ 106
113- Karson Brown 19th- State Champ 113
120- Marcus Blaze 2nd- State Champ 120
132- Jaxon Joy 8th- State Champ 132
138- Omar Ayoub 10th- State Champ 138
138- Ryan Bennett 16th- State Runner-up 138
145- Brock Herman 8th- State Champ 144
160- Joey Blaze 1st and P4P 27th- State Champ 165
160- Ethan Birden 6th- State Champ 157
170- Myles Takats 17th- State Champ 175
182- Jarrel Miller 18th- State Runner up 175
195- Camden McDanel 7th- State Champ 190
195- Myles Johnson 10th- State 3rd 190
220- Dylan Russo 11th- State Champ 215
220- Max Vanadia 17th- State Runner up 215

Three finals matches between nationally ranked wrestlers- 138, 175, & 215.

Division 2 with 3 wrestlers
106- Javaan Yarbrough 12th- State Champ 106
170- Dylan Newsome 16th- State Champ 175
220- Max Shulaw 6th- State Champ 215


Division 3 with one wrestler
126- Dillon Campbell 10th- State Champ 126

I was surprised to see so few nationally ranked wrestlers in DII and DIII. It appeared overall that the national talent level may be down over years past? How awesome would the state tournament be if most of the finals were between the top kids in the country? Both on the girls AND the boys side!

Apologies if I left anyone out. Feel free to correct!
 
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wrestlfan said:
I didn't realize that girls wrestling in college was freestyle. Why in the heck are they even doing folk? Dumb
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Because it's about money! Can't piggyback a freestyle state with boys state. Different refs and setup for tables. Time schedule etc. But they should do it freestyle, set the girls up to succeed in college. Not be behind other states.
 
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