What are these school districts thinking?

AHS74

Active member
The school districts that are doing both remote learning only and suspending Fall activities are mainly ones with the most educationally, behaviorally, nutritionally and socially/economically at risk kids. It is deplorable they are being thrown under the bus. Study after study show that students who engage in extracurricular activities show improved grades and are less likely to engage in high risk behaviors. The benefits of in school learning and extracurricular activities far outweigh the risks in my opinion. Teachers should be designated essential workers. If teachers and staff are concerned about their health, let them take one year of leave of absence and collect unemployment. I hope state testing is still required so the harm done can be partially measured.
 
Last edited:
You are not eligible for unemployment when you take a leave of absence. A teacher has to be layed off/ RIFFED to be eligible for unemployment. School employees with health issues and school districts that are having in-person instruction (which I am all for) are likely headed down the legal trail in many locations.
 

Jaws31

Well-known member
You are not eligible for unemployment when you take a leave of absence. A teacher has to be layed off/ RIFFED to be eligible for unemployment. School employees with health issues and school districts that are having in-person instruction (which I am all for) are likely headed down the legal trail in many locations.
There wouldn't be any legal basis because its impossible to prove where a virus is contracted. The
FEAR of legal ramifications is what is keeping schools remote but when it comes down to it there is no way to prove you got the virus from Jimmy in school or at the grocery store. Not to say that someone wouldn't try to sue. Add in the fact that a lot of the teachers unions figured out they can stay home and get paid and the districts just decided "screw it, everyone stay home" and save themselves any hassles. The sad part is the students are the ones who are suffering in all this and no one seems to give a damn.
 

Jaws31

Well-known member
The school districts that are doing both remote learning only and suspending Fall activities are mainly ones with the most educationally, behaviorally, nutritionally and socially/economically at risk kids. It is deplorable they are being thrown under the bus. Study after study show that students who engage in extracurricular activities show improved grades and are less likely to engage in high risk behaviors. The benefits of in school learning and extracurricular activities far outweigh the risks in my opinion. Teachers should be designated essential workers. If teachers and staff are concerned about their health, let them take one year of leave of absence and collect unemployment. I hope state testing is still required so the harm done can be partially measured.
Excellent post. You are absolutely dead on and I wish the powers that be read this.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
There wouldn't be any legal basais because its impossible to prove where a virus is contracted. The
FEAR of legal ramifications is what is keeping schools remote but when it comes down to it there is no way to prove you got the virus from Jimmy in school or at the grocery store. Not to say that someone wouldn't try to sue. Add in the fact that a lot of the teachers unions figured out they can stay home and get paid and the districts just decided "screw it, everyone stay home" and save themselves any hassles. The sad part is the stydents are the ones who are suffering in all this and no one seems to give a damn.
Unless, of course, someone (teacher) actually has been home the whole time -- hence, contact tracing.
 

CJK84

Well-known member
Follow the money, every decision is money based. If people in school districts that are all remote get upset and start complaining with things like taxes and levies, you will see decisions reversed. None of these decisions being made by anybody are health based, all money based.
I certainly don't disagree - health concerns seem secondary - but I think a bigger issue might be the fear of litigation. If the ugly specter of a costly lawsuit (and its accompanying media attention and shaming) would be removed, admins could confidently give the go-ahead to in-school learning and regular sports. Until then, we'll have schools continue to make decisions that harm kids.
 

Jaws31

Well-known member
Unless, of course, someone (teacher) actually has been home the whole time -- hence, contact tracing.
So in you scenario said teacher only occupies their house and the school? Nowhere else? No contact with any other person? No family? And if they do have family then they have zero contact with anyone? Yes I understand contact tracing but it is incredibly flawed.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
I certainly don't disagree - health concerns seem secondary - but I think a bigger issue might be the fear of litigation. If the ugly specter of a costly lawsuit (and its accompanying media attention and shaming) would be removed, admins could confidently give the go-ahead to in-school learning and regular sports. Until then, we'll have schools continue to make decisions that harm kids.
The litigation concerns, while present, seem to be indeterminate. I'm sure districts have done their homework with their legal departments over the summer to understand tort law and what situations they can/can't get sued for.

It's becoming apparent the concern is with the insurance. The district directly east of where I live is a rural, small district. Their Board of Education already approved their reopening plan to be 100% remote if our county is "Level 3/Red" on the state's COVID advisory charting -- our county has been Level 3 for the past four weeks now. Their super has reported their health insurance provider will drop them or spike their premiums if they choose to return in Level 3 or Level 4, or if the Board of Health recommends they don't return.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
So in you scenario said teacher only occupies their house and the school? Nowhere else? No contact with any other person? No family? And if they do have family then they have zero contact with anyone? Yes I understand contact tracing but it is incredibly flawed.
Yeah. It's what I've been doing since March -- and I'm not at all "high risk" or someone who checks the boxes of 'COVID comorbidity.'
 

CJK84

Well-known member
It's becoming apparent the concern is with the insurance. The district directly east of where I live is a rural, small district. Their Board of Education already approved their reopening plan to be 100% remote if our county is "Level 3/Red" on the state's COVID advisory charting -- our county has been Level 3 for the past four weeks now. Their super has reported their health insurance provider will drop them or spike their premiums if they choose to return in Level 3 or Level 4, or if the Board of Health recommends they don't return.
You bring up good points. I hope you have somehow been misinformed, and what you heard about the health insurance provider's threat isn't entirely true.

But it probably is true, and it stinks to high heaven that this is the reality - the fear of a comparative few has created an overreaction that is causing the kids to suffer, with little to no benefit on the flip side!!
 

Jaws31

Well-known member
Yeah. It's what I've been doing since March -- and I'm not at all "high risk" or someone who checks the boxes of 'COVID comorbidity.'
So you haven't left your house, at all, since March? You haven't had any contact with anyone since March?
 

The Dock

Well-known member
So you haven't left your house, at all, since March? You haven't had any contact with anyone since March?
Except for what I specifically do for a living, yes. Which generally only has me leave the house twice a week now that I'm WFH. Pretty easy for me to figure out from who or how I would've contracted COVID-19, since I know who I see.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
You bring up good points. I hope you have somehow been misinformed, and what you heard about the health insurance provider's threat isn't entirely true.

But it probably is true, and it stinks to high heaven that this is the reality - the fear of a comparative few has created an overreaction that is causing the kids to suffer, with little to no benefit on the flip side!!
I hope I too have been misinformed, because I'm a tad anxious about what COVID-19 ends up doing to the private health insurance sector in the United States. With so many employers in both the public and private sector transitioning to 'work from home', there obviously has to be a connection toward what their insurance providers are advising.
 

Shooter25

Member
The school districts that are doing both remote learning only and suspending Fall activities are mainly ones with the most educationally, behaviorally, nutritionally and socially/economically at risk kids. It is deplorable they are being thrown under the bus. Study after study show that students who engage in extracurricular activities show improved grades and are less likely to engage in high risk behaviors. The benefits of in school learning and extracurricular activities far outweigh the risks in my opinion. Teachers should be designated essential workers. If teachers and staff are concerned about their health, let them take one year of leave of absence and collect unemployment. I hope state testing is still required so the harm done can be partially measured.
The schools will still be offering educational opportunities. It is the students and parents responsibility to be active participant learners

Food will still be provided for those who need it

Most studIes show the number one determining factor in a child’s development is the parents.

Posts like this are proof of the deterioration of the American family structure and the American home. You just placed pretty much every aspect of a child’s development on the schools. Let’s return to the family providing this and letting schools educate and provide opportunities for our kids, not completely raise them.
 

Hitnrun

Well-known member
The litigation concerns, while present, seem to be indeterminate. I'm sure districts have done their homework with their legal departments over the summer to understand tort law and what situations they can/can't get sued for.

It's becoming apparent the concern is with the insurance. The district directly east of where I live is a rural, small district. Their Board of Education already approved their reopening plan to be 100% remote if our county is "Level 3/Red" on the state's COVID advisory charting -- our county has been Level 3 for the past four weeks now. Their super has reported their health insurance provider will drop them or spike their premiums if they choose to return in Level 3 or Level 4, or if the Board of Health recommends they don't return.
All due respect, but that threat to drop teachers insurance is total BS. My wife works in a busy hospital, w/multiple staff dealing w/Covid on a daily basis. If anybody is at risk they are, and they haven't seen any drop in insurance coverage or premium increases. Neither have those numerous employees who have continued to work since the pandemic began in the private and public sector, ie: Children Services, Human Services, MRDD. In fact many insurance companies have either reduced premiums or delayed payments due. Those schools electing to go 100% virtual for any duration will be facing steep resistance to passing any planned tax levy IMO. In fact, considering their costs going virtual should be significantly reduced when combined w/ their shutdowns in the Spring, some form of tax reimbursement should be in order, hum? No costs to maintain buildings, no utilities, no salary for bus drivers, teachers aides, secretaries just to start. No outside contracted services such as snow removal, plumbing, electrical emergencies. Sounds like all those cost saving measures would leave plenty to pay for the threatened health insurance increases. Ridiculous, and yes, follow the money.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
All due respect, but that threat to drop teachers insurance is total BS. My wife works in a busy hospital, w/multiple staff dealing w/Covid on a daily basis. If anybody is at risk they are, and they haven't seen any drop in insurance coverage or premium increases. Neither have those numerous employees who have continued to work since the pandemic began in the private and public sector, ie: Children Services, Human Services, MRDD. In fact many insurance companies have either reduced premiums or delayed payments due. Those schools electing to go 100% virtual for any duration will be facing steep resistance to passing any planned tax levy IMO. In fact, considering their costs going virtual should be significantly reduced when combined w/ their shutdowns in the Spring, some form of tax reimbursement should be in order, hum? No costs to maintain buildings, no utilities, no salary for bus drivers, teachers aides, secretaries just to start. No outside contracted services such as snow removal, plumbing, electrical emergencies. Sounds like all those cost saving measures would leave plenty to pay for the threatened health insurance increases. Ridiculous, and yes, follow the money.
I wonder if some teachers and their unions are really thinking this through? They're showing hard working tax paying American's just how unimportant to their children teachers are. Or even worse they're showing tax payers that they can't count on public education to be there when needed.

If I was a teacher or teacher union boss I would be screaming from the mountain top how we must reopen the schools and get the kids back in. My focus would be on how to best protect those teachers most at risk including figuring out a way that paid leave could be made to work. Instead some of these folks are advocating for the destruction of their profession.

I would be exploiting a moment in time when teachers could be proving their value to their communities. Now is a unique opportunity for teachers to demonstrate their professional worth and increase their compensation. I would be curious to hear what current teachers think about this?

And yes, tax payers should be getting property tax refunds in those districts that are completely closing down. My guess is that some lawyers and judges will see it this way to.
 

Jaws31

Well-known member
The schools will still be offering educational opportunities. It is the students and parents responsibility to be active participant learners

Food will still be provided for those who need it

Most studIes show the number one determining factor in a child’s development is the parents.

Posts like this are proof of the deterioration of the American family structure and the American home. You just placed pretty much every aspect of a child’s development on the schools. Let’s return to the family providing this and letting schools educate and provide opportunities for our kids, not completely raise them.
It is proof of the deterioration of the family structure but it is not going to change overnight. It is noble to want to get back strong family values but it is naive to believe this is going to happen anytime soon. All of these city public schools washing their hands of the situation is only going to make it worse I'm afraid. This past spring up to 75% of Akron city school students never turned in any work according to some accounts. Those schools are going remote again this fall. Like it or not schools, and subsequently extracurriculars like sports, are the only structure that a lot of kids have in their lives. It is not right but that is the way it is. Take it away and not only will there be a massive gsp educationally but there is going to be a multitude of problems for thousands of kids in this state.
 

cincyhoops

Well-known member
I wonder if some teachers and their unions are really thinking this through? They're showing hard working tax paying American's just how unimportant to their children teachers are. Or even worse they're showing tax payers that they can't count on public education to be there when needed.

If I was a teacher or teacher union boss I would be screaming from the mountain top how we must reopen the schools and get the kids back in. My focus would be on how to best protect those teachers most at risk including figuring out a way that paid leave could be made to work. Instead some of these folks are advocating for the destruction of their profession.

I would be exploiting a moment in time when teachers could be proving their value to their communities. Now is a unique opportunity for teachers to demonstrate their professional worth and increase their compensation. I would be curious to hear what current teachers think about this?

And yes, tax payers should be getting property tax refunds in those districts that are completely closing down. My guess is that some lawyers and judges will see it this way to.
No chance there is property tax refunds. Schools are not closed if they are operating via remote learning.
 

CJK84

Well-known member
If I was a teacher or teacher union boss I would be screaming from the mountain top how we must reopen the schools and get the kids back in.
I'm a public school teacher - I'm not on a mountain top, but I'm trying to do just that!!

At the same time, school admins realize that the media will pounce - and pounce aggressively - the instant there's a single case of the virus in a school, and will go through the 'necessary' shaming of those admins for recklessly putting people in harm's way.

And this has already happened. The NY Times has been quick to report, in a slanted way imo, that Greenfield Central JH in Indiana had a positive case on the morning of its first day of school just two days ago.
 
Last edited:

CJK84

Well-known member
Let’s return to the family providing this and letting schools educate and provide opportunities for our kids, not completely raise them.
That all sounds well and good, but is that possible?

The school environment is more structured, predictable, productive, and healthy than the home environment that many kids come from. That's the point of the original poster. I'm sure he would agree that families should be providing these things, but they're often not providing them in the districts that he mentioned.

Hence, he's saying it's extra sad that those kids are the ones most affected.
 

CometCountry

Well-known member
I'm a public school teacher - I'm not on a mountain top, but I'm trying to do just that!!

At the same time, school admins realize that the media will pounce - and pounce aggressively - the instant there's a single case of the virus in a school, and will go through the 'necessary' shaming of those admins for recklessly putting people in harm's way.

And this has already happened. The NY Times has been quick to report, in a slanted way imo, that Greenfield Central JH in Indiana had a positive case on the morning of its first day of school just two days ago.
You mean like this story from today's Cincy Enquirer--on the 1st frickin day of school since last March!!
 

brianwr112

Well-known member
They aren't dropping the Teacher's Insurance...they're threatening to drop the each School Districts or raise the premium. The same they do for every business that takes on additional risks.
 

USMC6789

Active member
One of the best ways to make this work would be finding and quickly retrofitting new classrooms to lower classroom populations. A place like a community center or church Cafeteria could be turned into classrooms and allow for spreading kids out. It also would require more staff and the purchase of equipment.

All of this takes money and given the hit schools took from the state that’s harder to find. Sure would be nice if the fed’s ever provided the funds they’ve been talking about for a few months now.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
The school districts that are doing both remote learning only and suspending Fall activities are mainly ones with the most educationally, behaviorally, nutritionally and socially/economically at risk kids. It is deplorable they are being thrown under the bus. Study after study show that students who engage in extracurricular activities show improved grades and are less likely to engage in high risk behaviors.
and they are the districts with the lowest participation in those activities, frequently a small set of the same kids in the seasonal sports. Athletics is in no way a decider here. Not saying I am agreeing or disagreeing with the decision to go exclusively remote learning, but athletics and extra-curriculars are not a factor in that decision. As already mentioned, neither is "nutrition." The others, yes.
 

brianwr112

Well-known member
One of the best ways to make this work would be finding and quickly retrofitting new classrooms to lower classroom populations. A place like a community center or church Cafeteria could be turned into classrooms and allow for spreading kids out. It also would require more staff and the purchase of equipment.

All of this takes money and given the hit schools took from the state that’s harder to find. Sure would be nice if the fed’s ever provided the funds they’ve been talking about for a few months now.
I think this could be a great option but it'd take everyone working together. Haven't done that really well lately
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
I wonder if some teachers and their unions are really thinking this through? They're showing hard working tax paying American's just how unimportant to their children teachers are. Or even worse they're showing tax payers that they can't count on public education to be there when needed.

If I was a teacher or teacher union boss I would be screaming from the mountain top how we must reopen the schools and get the kids back in. My focus would be on how to best protect those teachers most at risk including figuring out a way that paid leave could be made to work. Instead some of these folks are advocating for the destruction of their profession.

I would be exploiting a moment in time when teachers could be proving their value to their communities. Now is a unique opportunity for teachers to demonstrate their professional worth and increase their compensation. I would be curious to hear what current teachers think about this?

And yes, tax payers should be getting property tax refunds in those districts that are completely closing down. My guess is that some lawyers and judges will see it this way to.
I wonder if some teachers and their unions are really thinking this through? They're showing hard working tax paying American's just how unimportant to their children teachers are. Or even worse they're showing tax payers that they can't count on public education to be there when needed.

If I was a teacher or teacher union boss I would be screaming from the mountain top how we must reopen the schools and get the kids back in. My focus would be on how to best protect those teachers most at risk including figuring out a way that paid leave could be made to work. Instead some of these folks are advocating for the destruction of their profession.

I would be exploiting a moment in time when teachers could be proving their value to their communities. Now is a unique opportunity for teachers to demonstrate their professional worth and increase their compensation. I would be curious to hear what current teachers think about this?

And yes, tax payers should be getting property tax refunds in those districts that are completely closing down. My guess is that some lawyers and judges will see it this way to.
Look, I completely get what you are saying and I agree that kids SHOULD BE IN SCHOOL 100%. However, your statement on teachers and their value couldn't be further from the truth. Do I think there is over-reaction on some teachers unions, yes. But, the AFT actually proposed plans on how to safely re-open schools back in April. It's not all on the teacher's unions, its more on the legal councils of the districts and as mentioned, liability insurance companies for the schools.

No, you will not get any refund on taxes because even remote learning is costing MORE, not less, than traditional instruction before COVID. Schools have to pay for these increased costs while operating on less funding from the state.
 
.
Top