What are these school districts thinking?

LHS02

Member
Its really quite simple. The large urban districts that are going online are doing so because they can't figure out a way to have classes and keep social distancing and all of the other rules from being broken.

I'm too lazy to look but I imagine Cleveland Public Schools have around 40,000 students. Toledo over 20,000, Columbus probably 50,000. Most of these kids take the bus. They all need to eat lunch as well. I'm not blaming them. It's a logistical nightmare to keep these kids socially distanced. How many extra bus routes would you need if you can't fill the bus? If you can't use all of the cafeteria how many lunch periods do you schedule?

If you live in a district that has 1000 students k-12 you can do all kinds of innovative things and be fairly certain you will succeed or you can adapt quickly. Go into a high school where 15 busses arrive at the same time and try to social distance them as they go through metal detectors then go to eat breakfast.

Some things that seem so easy for many are a difficult task for some.
 

winbypin

Well-known member
Except for what I specifically do for a living, yes. Which generally only has me leave the house twice a week now that I'm WFH. Pretty easy for me to figure out from who or how I would've contracted COVID-19, since I know who I see.
Seriously? For 5 months now? Lol. That would really suck.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Its really quite simple. The large urban districts that are going online are doing so because they can't figure out a way to have classes and keep social distancing and all of the other rules from being broken.

I'm too lazy to look but I imagine Cleveland Public Schools have around 40,000 students. Toledo over 20,000,...Most of these kids take the bus. They all need to eat lunch as well. I'm not blaming them. It's a logistical nightmare to keep these kids socially distanced. How many extra bus routes would you need if you can't fill the bus? If you can't use all of the cafeteria how many lunch periods do you schedule?

... Go into a high school where 15 busses arrive at the same time and try to social distance them as they go through metal detectors then go to eat breakfast.

Some things that seem so easy for many are a difficult task for some.
Having NO inside information, I still honestly do not think those were the issues. Rural districts would have a higher proportion of busing. All districts have kids to convince of the social distancing/mask wearing rules. In the urban environment, those most likely to cause disturbance, are not going to school and I would imagine at even lower rates in the current environment. MY perceived demographic of those most resistent to following social-distancing/mask wearing are more conservative. I certainly do not think there will be more of a difficulty in the large urban districts.

The plan published here in Toledo had only half the kids in the building at a time, blended with distance learning. This would allow for social distancing, allow for the social compenent and teacher time. There would need be adjustments in teaching technique and certainly, moderating whether people were actually performing their tasks.

Those that have decided to delay opening, I don't think I've actually seen reported reasoning beyond uptick in cases.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
Having NO inside information, I still honestly do not think those were the issues. Rural districts would have a higher proportion of busing. All districts have kids to convince of the social distancing/mask wearing rules. In the urban environment, those most likely to cause disturbance, are not going to school and I would imagine at even lower rates in the current environment. MY perceived demographic of those most resistent to following social-distancing/mask wearing are more conservative. I certainly do not think there will be more of a difficulty in the large urban districts.

The plan published here in Toledo had only half the kids in the building at a time, blended with distance learning. This would allow for social distancing, allow for the social compenent and teacher time. There would need be adjustments in teaching technique and certainly, moderating whether people were actually performing their tasks.

Those that have decided to delay opening, I don't think I've actually seen reported reasoning beyond uptick in cases.
Having no personal opinion for/against the large, urban city systems: I imagine that under the current state of affairs with the virus, there just were so many glaring negatives and potential problems that outweighed the very few positives of actually going to back to in-person. Many parents in these systems aren't going to have paid leave if they get sick with COVID. My observation would be that many of these kids probably aren't living specifically with just a parent, but also/instead an older aunt, uncle or grandparent. Further, it just isn't realistic to expect they could do 5-days a week in-person without any problems. Blended learning would've either been a huge success or a huge joke, no middle ground, in Columbus. How are the schools going to police truancy in these times? Hmm?

I would probably go further to say that a lot of the residents in these neighborhoods take the threat of COVID, both the spread and its accompanied risks, very seriously and perhaps more so than their rural counterparts. Heck, I'll drive through the Hilltop of Columbus and see everybody walking down the streets in surgical masks!
 

Paladin

Member
I have a son on a local school board and what was reported here is accurate- insurance companies have laid out the parameters of their coverage for the Board of Ed, or that they will drop those who go ahead and open without rigorous, expensive prevention action. Some won’t even do that - they will simply drop coverage.

Most Boards are in constant contact with their employee unions, so both sides understand the risks, both healthwise and legal issues. On a personal issue, many Superintendents don’t want their record and future employment opportunities smeared by opening and having an outbreak, especially if deaths occur. Someone mentioned money controls some decisions. That is at least partly true. Some communities have very powerful employers who would be hurt financially if outbreaks over run the community and that pressure is coming down on some boards. It’s funny that some views this as simply a football problem. It is much bigger than many are failing to grasp.
 

GLAT

Inactive
I wonder if some teachers and their unions are really thinking this through? They're showing hard working tax paying American's just how unimportant to their children teachers are. Or even worse they're showing tax payers that they can't count on public education to be there when needed.

If I was a teacher or teacher union boss I would be screaming from the mountain top how we must reopen the schools and get the kids back in. My focus would be on how to best protect those teachers most at risk including figuring out a way that paid leave could be made to work. Instead some of these folks are advocating for the destruction of their profession.

I would be exploiting a moment in time when teachers could be proving their value to their communities. Now is a unique opportunity for teachers to demonstrate their professional worth and increase their compensation. I would be curious to hear what current teachers think about this?

And yes, tax payers should be getting property tax refunds in those districts that are completely closing down. My guess is that some lawyers and judges will see it this way to.
I don't even know where to start with this hot mess.
 

YtownJohnny

Active member
It is proof of the deterioration of the family structure but it is not going to change overnight. It is noble to want to get back strong family values but it is naive to believe this is going to happen anytime soon. All of these city public schools washing their hands of the situation is only going to make it worse I'm afraid. This past spring up to 75% of Akron city school students never turned in any work according to some accounts. Those schools are going remote again this fall. Like it or not schools, and subsequently extracurriculars like sports, are the only structure that a lot of kids have in their lives. It is not right but that is the way it is. Take it away and not only will there be a massive gsp educationally but there is going to be a multitude of problems for thousands of kids in this state.
This is such an over exaggerated viewpoint. These kids are going to do the responsible thing (education wise, law abiding, life choices, etc ) whether they are physically in school and play sports or not. They don’t become model citizens because of fall football. People are what they are and delaying people’s actions and behaviors a year means little.
 

YtownJohnny

Active member
I have a son on a local school board and what was reported here is accurate- insurance companies have laid out the parameters of their coverage for the Board of Ed, or that they will drop those who go ahead and open without rigorous, expensive prevention action. Some won’t even do that - they will simply drop coverage.

Most Boards are in constant contact with their employee unions, so both sides understand the risks, both healthwise and legal issues. On a personal issue, many Superintendents don’t want their record and future employment opportunities smeared by opening and having an outbreak, especially if deaths occur. Someone mentioned money controls some decisions. That is at least partly true. Some communities have very powerful employers who would be hurt financially if outbreaks over run the community and that pressure is coming down on some boards. It’s funny that some views this as simply a football problem. It is much bigger than many are failing to grasp.
I do agree that “a football problem “ is very low on the list of what is actually going on with the situation.
 

Woden

New member
Loooong time reader (I find much humor here). And, looong time educator(over 30 years). 1. While I cannot speak for all of the school districts in our fine state, I can say that any decision our school has made or will make will not be by any teacher or our teacher's union. These decisions are solely the responsibility of the Superintendent and the school board. I suspect the same is true for all school districts. 2. Teachers are not the only people who are working remotely or from home during this fiasco; hell, I filed my taxes in February and just received them last week because the IRS was working remotely from their homes. Those individuals at the IRS and the teachers who must teach remotely in empty classrooms do not have a choice.
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
Loooong time reader (I find much humor here). And, looong time educator(over 30 years). 1. While I cannot speak for all of the school districts in our fine state, I can say that any decision our school has made or will make will not be by any teacher or our teacher's union. These decisions are solely the responsibility of the Superintendent and the school board. I suspect the same is true for all school districts. 2. Teachers are not the only people who are working remotely or from home during this fiasco; hell, I filed my taxes in February and just received them last week because the IRS was working remotely from their homes. Those individuals at the IRS and the teachers who must teach remotely in empty classrooms do not have a choice.
Well said!

I find it quite odd that teachers working from home is viewed by so many as lazy, yet every other profession is seen as positive and innovative. What makes this even more strange is the teachers were working much more at home then they were in the classroom.
 

GLAT

Inactive
Teachers want to be in the classroom. This is not hard. They deserve the correct safety measures. One school board said it best....how is any big school district going to open fully and fully follow safe guidelines outlined by health depts and CDC, it cannot be done. I believe the hybrid model with students attending diff dates is the way to go.

We are now seeing studies possibly linking mild cases to future heart problems....we need to step back and protect people.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
I don't even know where to start with this hot mess.
At the beginning would be nice. But go ahead keep thinking that how some teachers and their unions are reacting to the outbreak won't matter to their profession in the long run. I think it's wishful thinking.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
Well said!

I find it quite odd that teachers working from home is viewed by so many as lazy, yet every other profession is seen as positive and innovative. What makes this even more strange is the teachers were working much more at home then they were in the classroom.
I'm not saying it's lazy I'm saying it's bad for most of the kids. Sure some kids thrive (those with strong household structures) and for some kids it's a medical necessity. But you're crazy if you think remote "leaning" is good for the vast majority of kids.

It is illuminating to see what teachers are thinking here.
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
I'm not saying it's lazy I'm saying it's bad for most of the kids. Sure some kids thrive (those with strong household structures) and for some kids it's a medical necessity. But you're crazy if you think remote "leaning" is good for the vast majority of kids.

It is illuminating to see what teachers are thinking here.
I couldn't agree more, it's definitely a trainwreck for most kids. I was more responding to a large segment of our population who seem to be putting this all on teachers when most districts really don't care what teachers think. Teachers don't have the pull people think they do in most districts. If they did, schools would look drastically different than they do.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
No chance there is property tax refunds. Schools are not closed if they are operating via remote learning.
Sure it's an uphill battle but get back to me in March after they've closed down schools completely again because of the flu. And if they won't issue rebates I suspect that Levies won't be as easy to pass in the future.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Having no personal opinion for/against the large, urban city systems: I imagine that under the current state of affairs with the virus, there just were so many glaring negatives and potential problems that outweighed the very few positives of actually going to back to in-person. Many parents in these systems aren't going to have paid leave if they get sick with COVID. My observation would be that many of these kids probably aren't living specifically with just a parent, but also/instead an older aunt, uncle or grandparent. Further, it just isn't realistic to expect they could do 5-days a week in-person without any problems. Blended learning would've either been a huge success or a huge joke, no middle ground, in Columbus. How are the schools going to police truancy in these times? Hmm?

I would probably go further to say that a lot of the residents in these neighborhoods take the threat of COVID, both the spread and its accompanied risks, very seriously and perhaps more so than their rural counterparts. Heck, I'll drive through the Hilltop of Columbus and see everybody walking down the streets in surgical masks!
That all seems reasonable to me and what some apparently in the know talking insurance issues, I think the lambasting should end. NO district or school is going to open if their insurance company makes it prohibitive, regardless some one person thinks they'd in no way be able to prove where it was contracted.

When all is said and done, the real Father of the country was Ben Franklin.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
Sure it's an uphill battle but get back to me in March after they've closed down schools completely again because of the flu. And if they won't issue rebates I suspect that Levies won't be as easy to pass in the future.
Why would they issue rebates?! Will never understand where some of you think there’s going to be a clawback of your taxes because, wait for it... students weren’t in the building full-time?
 

Jaws31

Well-known member
This is such an over exaggerated viewpoint. These kids are going to do the responsible thing (education wise, law abiding, life choices, etc ) whether they are physically in school and play sports or not. They don’t become model citizens because of fall football. People are what they are and delaying people’s actions and behaviors a year means little.
So you don't think that coaches can be roll models or football or any extracurricular for that matter, provides strutcture for kids that may not have any at home? Kids are what they are no matter what so who cares right. That is complete BS and obviously you've never coached or if you did you've never made enough of an impact to make a difference. Yes, not every situation is a Disney movie, but to think that not having school or sports won't make a difference is just uninformed and plain wrong.
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
Sure it's an uphill battle but get back to me in March after they've closed down schools completely again because of the flu. And if they won't issue rebates I suspect that Levies won't be as easy to pass in the future.
Again, it is costing MORE to do the remote/online learning. Why would you get a rebate for the school to spend more money?
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
So you don't think that coaches can be roll models or football or any extracurricular for that matter, provides strutcture for kids that may not have any at home? Kids are what they are no matter what so who cares right. That is complete BS and obviously you've never coached or if you did you've never made enough of an impact to make a difference. Yes, not every situation is a Disney movie, but to think that not having school or sports won't make a difference is just uninformed and plain wrong.
He didn't say YOU were wrong. He said it was over exagerated. That doesn't mean coaches can't be all those things but unless they're making a room in the house, that Disney movie, they're still only there a few hours of the week. But change the life? That's anecdotal, which takes NOTHING away from those who coach. I purposely took up watching them because I knew to be better at my job, I needed to learn patience. Learned alot as an adult from watching those who choose to coach.
 

gusterboy

Active member
I certainly don't disagree - health concerns seem secondary - but I think a bigger issue might be the fear of litigation. If the ugly specter of a costly lawsuit (and its accompanying media attention and shaming) would be removed, admins could confidently give the go-ahead to in-school learning and regular sports. Until then, we'll have schools continue to make decisions that harm kids.
COVID WAIVER
 

theterribletowel

Active member
There wouldn't be any legal basis because its impossible to prove where a virus is contracted. The
FEAR of legal ramifications is what is keeping schools remote but when it comes down to it there is no way to prove you got the virus from Jimmy in school or at the grocery store. Not to say that someone wouldn't try to sue. Add in the fact that a lot of the teachers unions figured out they can stay home and get paid and the districts just decided "screw it, everyone stay home" and save themselves any hassles. The sad part is the students are the ones who are suffering in all this and no one seems to give a damn.
Not that some of those factors aren't contributing to the decision to go remote. That said you missed the number one reason. Large urban school districts will not have the resources and funds to meet the safety requirements the upcoming school year requires. The cleaning supplies, mask etc. not to mention shortage of teachers and subs bust the budget. Privatization of education through school choice and charter programs, open enrollment the loss of tax revenue from covid and a broken school funding model really force urban districts hands.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
The idea of getting a tax rebate for your district being shuttered due to COVID is asinine.

Off of the districts that I'm most familiar with, the typical COVID school district financial scenario had the school saving money on facilities operations in the spring, only to lose an equal or greater amount in state budget cuts. Preparations for the fall look like making additional spending on equipment to enact social distancing expectations (if they got CARES funding, a nice chunk of that is going here). Schools are looking into making additional investments in the event that get bumped entirely online again.

Most districts that have been financially tight are going to be reeling come next spring, especially if their locally funding mix includes an income tax.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
So, now all of a sudden we are all concerned about these at risk kids and these under funded and under resourced schools?! Comforting to know that problem is solved and as soon as the economy bounces back all those shortcomings will be a thing of the past. We are all in agreement then. That's really good.
 

Jaws31

Well-known member
Not that some of those factors aren't contributing to the decision to go remote. That said you missed the number one reason. Large urban school districts will not have the resources and funds to meet the safety requirements the upcoming school year requires. The cleaning supplies, mask etc. not to mention shortage of teachers and subs bust the budget. Privatization of education through school choice and charter programs, open enrollment the loss of tax revenue from covid and a broken school funding model really force urban districts hands.
I do agree. Lack of funding is a huge problem with inner city schools. I understand that going remote was/is inevitable but it is still a terrible situation.
 

GLAT

Inactive
Sure it's an uphill battle but get back to me in March after they've closed down schools completely again because of the flu. And if they won't issue rebates I suspect that Levies won't be as easy to pass in the future.
Levies were easy to pass? The country just saw its worst economic numbers in history and things aren't getting better.

I get it, you are very passionate about reopening schools. Everyone wants schools opened. But it has to be done safely following protocols. Schools are not babysitters, they are places to learn. The superintendent and school boards will make decisions based on best available information.
 

YtownJohnny

Active member
So you don't think that coaches can be roll models or football or any extracurricular for that matter, provides strutcture for kids that may not have any at home? Kids are what they are no matter what so who cares right. That is complete BS and obviously you've never coached or if you did you've never made enough of an impact to make a difference. Yes, not every situation is a Disney movie, but to think that not having school or sports won't make a difference is just uninformed and plain wrong.
That’s not what I said. One of my coaches was very influential in my life, but that’s because I chose to be influenced for more than one season and most importantly He went the extra mile (or two miles in my case) and for that I’ll always be thankful. So I’m certainly not downplaying the influence of Coaches, Teachers, Mentors etc. but a person has to have a born in something (drive, commitment, Pride , ego or whatever you want to call it) so that He and only He makes the hard choices.
 
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