Week 4: Elder vs. Lakewood St. Edward

scotty99 said:
Both Keyes and Mitchell played DE full time Saturday. Not sure if that is because the DL is slacking or they are too slow for LB. The LBs probably avg 190 without these guys.
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Correct. This was the starting lineup when they went on defense to start out. The next series Larkins and Kandra went out and Keyes went in at DE and Tucker at NG. If Keyes wasn't going to start at DE, I don't know why they didn't start out stronger with him at LB. It seems like too many changes for one week, but at least they were trying something to strengthen the defense.

DE Larkins
NG Kandra
DE Mitchell
OLB Seger
LB Perdue
LB Paff
OLB Stemler
CB Deters
S Sandhas
S Wandstradt
CB Thomas
 
Omar said:
I don’t think either is too slow. I think E wanted to get 2 of their better athletes on Defense on the Edge to provide a pass rush.

This is a tough situation for the Defense. How do you create a Pass Rush while still stopping the run? I’m not sure what you can really do.
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I didn't really like the move of Keyes and Mitchell to DE, but it's easy for us to say after the fact. I'm sure they felt good about the game plan. It looked to me like Keyes and Mitchell were getting double teamed most of the time. They could have had their regular dends in to get double teamed, then Keyes and Mitchell would have been freed up for run support. Those Ed's tackles and guards were swallowing anything in front of them.
 
I'd take my chances all day on QB's beating me by putting the ball up with pressure in their face and force the QB to move around. Stop the run! It's the only mentality any defense should have. Absolutely refuse to let them beat you on the ground and put your best athletes in the secondary to defend the pass. If they beat you through the air, so be it. I'd take my chances.
 
Omar said:
This is a tough situation for the Defense. How do you create a Pass Rush while still stopping the run? I’m not sure what you can really do.
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The one time they had Ed's in a 3rd and longer situation and they had Royer in at DE, he didn't really rush. It looked like they were expecting a short pass and he played to knock the pass down instead of rush. Unfortunately, the QB made a perfect throw to one of their taller receivers for 1st down. That was a big play. Besides Ed's successful running attack, it seemed they just made all the big plays when they needed to. Elder shooting themselves in the foot at the 2 yard line hurt. Could have been different game if they get that TD.
 
Spille said:
I'd take my chances all day on QB's beating me by putting the ball up with pressure in their face and force the QB to move around. Stop the run! It's the only mentality any defense should have. Absolutely refuse to let them beat you on the ground and put your best athletes in the secondary to defend the pass. If they beat you through the air, so be it. I'd take my chances.
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I think that’s an outdated strategy overall. Offenses have evolved into becoming Pass First.

In Elder’s case, I think it depends on the opponent. X is going to throw the ball a ton, LS and WW are going to be more run heavy.
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
The one time they had Ed's in a 3rd and longer situation and they had Royer in at DE, he didn't really rush. It looked like they were expecting a short pass and he played to knock the pass down instead of rush. Unfortunately, the QB made a perfect throw to one of their taller receivers for 1st down. That was a big play. Besides Ed's successful running attack, it seemed they just made all the big plays when they needed to. Elder shooting themselves in the foot at the 2 yard line hurt. Could have been different game if they get that TD.
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I noticed that as well. Thomas was step for step in cvg, but the Eds WRs just made great plays.

Settling for a FG at the end of the half was killer. However, I don’t think the outcome changes bc E’s Defense couldn’t get off the field. It’s not the only story from this game, but it’s what should garner the most attention.
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
Elder won the coin toss and chose to defer and started on defense. Anyone surprised by this? You would think they would have taken the ball to get the lead and some momentum. I don't think it changes the outcome, but who knows. Both are very good teams and momentum can be big in these matchups.
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But in this situation, if you were to get behind having the chance to score before half, then getting the ball and scoring again can completely flip the game.
 
Royer was VERY ill on Saturday. He'd been throwing up and really had almost nothing to give (and still put up numbers).

Elder had a chance to make a game of it. They had Ed's 4th & 8 early in the 3rd quarter down 11 and allowed Ed's to pick up the first down (and eventual TD) on a scramble. Game over. Ed's maybe punted one time all game (and never when it was close).

The reality is no one respects the Elder defense and something must change. They are undersized, don't tackle well, and are slow which is a bad combination. As of a couple weeks ago, the Walnut transfer was STILL not be eligible for the 2nd half of the season. I really like adding Ramsey to defense as well as Royer Kandra & more. What about the backup TE? Isnt he 6ft 5? What about Miller, the backup QB? Can he play DB/Safety? I used to be against two-way players but every year I watch the state championships and every successful team outside the big-boys have many two way players. If they can do it, why not Elder?

IMO Elder CANT meet their season goals with the kids that have been playing defense thus far this year. They just do not have the ability to succeed at this level. Elder needs better players on defense and a better designed scheme. The current defense allows 7-8 yards PER PLAY (just a guess) & cannot win the league or region.
 
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PURPLE REIGN said:
Royer was VERY ill on Saturday. He'd been throwing up and really had almost nothing to give (and still put up numbers).

Elder had a chance to make a game of it. They had Ed's 4th & 8 early in the 3rd quarter down 11 and allowed Ed's to pick up the first down (and eventual TD) on a scramble. Game over. Ed's maybe punted one time all game (and never when it was close).

The reality is no one respects the Elder defense and something must change. They are undersized, don't tackle well, and are slow which is a bad combination. As of a couple weeks ago, the Walnut transfer was STILL not be eligible for the 2nd half of the season. I really like adding Ramsey to defense as well as Royer Kandra & more. What about the backup TE? Isnt he 6ft 5? What about Miller, the backup QB? Can he play DB/Safety? I used to be against two-way players but every year I watch the state championships and every successful team outside the big-boys have many two way players. If they can do it, why not Elder?

IMO Elder CANT meet their season goals with the kids that have been playing defense thus far this year. They just do not have the ability to succeed at this level. Elder needs better players on defense and a better designed scheme. The current defense allows 7-8 yards PER PLAY (just a guess) & cannot win the league or region.
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Larkins plays Defense. Ramsey needs to start practicing with the Defense, hopefully he can learn an OLB/SS position relatively quickly. He did play some Defense as a Frosh.

And if Mitchell isn’t eligible, there’s something very wrong and Elder needs to raise hell. How were Verdon and Horton allowed to play all last yr? That’s garbage and Elder should consider threatening to take the OHSAA to court.
 
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Also, the fact Royer was really sick and still played a solid game shows what a stud he is. He didn’t look sick at all, he was winning jump balls and making acrobatic catches. That’s damn impressive.
 
PURPLE REIGN said:
I really like adding Ramsey to defense as well as Royer Kandra & more. What about the backup TE? Isnt he 6ft 5? What about Miller, the backup QB? Can he play DB/Safety? I used to be against two-way players but every year I watch the state championships and every successful team outside the big-boys have many two way players. If they can do it, why not Elder?
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These guys are going two way now here and there
Smith plays some DT and LB.
Larkins plays D End
Royer plays D End
Kandra plays DT

Kirch is the backup TE, he is a Soph. 6'3, 170 per Elder's roster.
Miller was looked at as a DB but he is the current #2 QB and I guess they don't want to risk him
 
Agree Ramsey needs to be playing both ways. He’s just too good of an athlete and could play anywhere in the secondary or LB. Also think they should give James and Beckenhaupt reps at DT. Rotate as many big guys as you can. I know we run a 3-4 but I wouldn’t mind seeing this DL:
Royer-Smith-Kandra-Larkin’s
 
Miller is too good of an athlete to be sitting on the sidelines holding a clipboard. You don't have the luxury of "saving" kids in case something happens. You can't do that with the decreased numbers in the program. Luebbe was the backup QB last year and played most offensive snaps. What's the difference?

I'm guessing he could be an asset somewhere on defense or offense. Maybe he's not better/faster than the current starters?
 
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I also don't know that playing a whole bunch of guys both ways is the answer. This is D1 high school football. The physicality of the game is immensely taxing on the body. These kids would be cashed out by season's end. It's simply not good for them physically, which you have to take into account.

Plays here and there I'm ok with, but you can't just run these kids ragged with no care for their short and potentially long-term well being.
 
scotty99 said:
Agree Ramsey needs to be playing both ways. He’s just too good of an athlete and could play anywhere in the secondary or LB. Also think they should give James and Beckenhaupt reps at DT. Rotate as many big guys as you can. I know we run a 3-4 but I wouldn’t mind seeing this DL:
Royer-Smith-Kandra-Larkin’s
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Does anyone have a rough estimate as to the % of plays Larkins is on Defense? Since he’s not getting a lot of balls thrown his way, it might be best to shift his focus to Defense.
 
Omar said:
I think that’s an outdated strategy overall. Offenses have evolved into becoming Pass First.

In Elder’s case, I think it depends on the opponent. X is going to throw the ball a ton, LS and WW are going to be more run heavy.
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I don't. If you can't stop the run, you basically give yourself zero chance to win the game. 1087 yards on 129 carries, almost 8.5 yards per carry. Take away the CA game and opponents are still averaging almost 6.5 per carry. Hard to win against good teams giving up numbers like that.

Doesn't matter the level, if asked, I'd bet every coach and d-coordinator would tell you the basic premise of playing good defense and being a good defensive football team, is you have to stop the run. Even if it means selling out and taking your chances against the pass.

TJ Watt of the Pittsburgh Steelers was just asked, how do you fix your defensive problems. He answered, "Stop the run".

I'm not saying it's going to fix the defense, but it needs to be priority.
 
Omar said:
Larkins plays Defense. Ramsey needs to start practicing with the Defense, hopefully he can learn an OLB/SS position relatively quickly. He did play some Defense as a Frosh.

And if Mitchell isn’t eligible, there’s something very wrong and Elder needs to raise hell. How were Verdon and Horton allowed to play all last yr? That’s garbage and Elder should consider threatening to take the OHSAA to court.
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Elder won’t complain or threaten to go to Court over a transfers eligibility,you know this. Horton goes to a new school Every year and never has to sit out it seems. Mitchell not eligible after Game 5, that the Rules now? If so who will replace him?

FREE PBOY!!!
 
Spille said:
I don't. If you can't stop the run, you basically give yourself zero chance to win the game. 1087 yards on 129 carries, almost 8.5 yards per carry. Take away the CA game and opponents are still averaging almost 6.5 per carry. Hard to win against good teams giving up numbers like that.

Doesn't matter the level, if asked, I'd bet every coach and d-coordinator would tell you the basic premise of playing good defense and being a good defensive football team, is you have to stop the run. Even if it means selling out and taking your chances against the pass.

TJ Watt of the Pittsburgh Steelers was just asked, how do you fix your defensive problems. He answered, "Stop the run".

I'm not saying it's going to fix the defense, but it needs to be priority.
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SMARTY22 said:
Elder won’t complain or threaten to go to Court over a transfers eligibility,you know this. Horton goes to a new school Every year and never has to sit out it seems. Mitchell not eligible after Game 5, that the Rules now? If so who will replace him?

FREE PBOY!!!
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If they just lie down and get screwed, that’s a disservice to the player and everyone involved in the program. There’s literally no consistent rule that limits Mitchell’s eligibility and allows Horton to play all last yr for LS.
 
Omar said:
Does anyone have a rough estimate as to the % of plays Larkins is on Defense? Since he’s not getting a lot of balls thrown his way, it might be best to shift his focus to Defense.
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He's playing damn near every offensive snap at H-back.
 
OldSchoolPanther said:
I also don't know that playing a whole bunch of guys both ways is the answer. This is D1 high school football. The physicality of the game is immensely taxing on the body. These kids would be cashed out by season's end. It's simply not good for them physically, which you have to take into account.

Plays here and there I'm ok with, but you can't just run these kids ragged with no care for their short and potentially long-term well being.
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In the long term view of the season, I would agree. In the short term of an important game such as St X or Winton Woods or LaSalle where there will be a chunk of Harbin points at stake, you need to take some chances to ensure you win those games. An away playoff game wouldn't be the end of the world, because this team will have had trips to Columbus, Cleveland, St X, Winton Woods and LaSalle when all is said and done, however the goal should be home playoff game.
 
adselder09 said:
He's playing damn near every offensive snap at H-back.
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I know he’s majority Offense, im curios if 80%+ of his snaps are on Offense. I’m wondering if they could adjust that ratio where it’s a higher % on Defense.

Again, I don’t know better than the coaches, but I feel like there’s more utility overall playing him at DE over TE/H-Back where he’s basically an extra OL.
 
adselder09 said:
In the long term view of the season, I would agree. In the short term of an important game such as St X or Winton Woods or LaSalle where there will be a chunk of Harbin points at stake, you need to take some chances to ensure you win those games. An away playoff game wouldn't be the end of the world, because this team will have had trips to Columbus, Cleveland, St X, Winton Woods and LaSalle when all is said and done, however the goal should be home playoff game.
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A team I’m starting to get worried about is Lakota West. They seem to be moving rapidly in the right direction with Bolden’s son at QB.
 
Omar said:
I know he’s majority Offense, im curios if 80%+ of his snaps are on Offense. I’m wondering if they could adjust that ratio where it’s a higher % on Defense.

Again, I don’t know better than the coaches, but I feel like there’s more utility overall playing him at DE over TE/H-Back where he’s basically an extra OL.
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He's doing a pretty good job on offense. I would venture to say he on offense more than 80% of his snaps.
 
adselder09 said:
He's doing a pretty good job on offense. I would venture to say he on offense more than 80% of his snaps.
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He is doing a good job, but in terms of a macro view, does he add more value playing more at DE? I think he probably does.
 
SMARTY22 said:
Elder won’t complain or threaten to go to Court over a transfers eligibility,you know this. Horton goes to a new school Every year and never has to sit out it seems. Mitchell not eligible after Game 5, that the Rules now? If so who will replace him?

FREE PBOY!!!
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If he’s not eligible, get Whitmer to take the case. No Elder fan should be quiet about that, it’s the most corrupt miscarriage of justice as it pertains to OHSAA rules I can think of.

It’s somehow ok for a kid living in West Chester, to transfer to LS, play the full yr with no issues, but a kid living in the city of Cincinnati has to sit out playing for Elder. That’s awful.

I could understand if Horton had to miss 1/2 of last yr, but now he’s playing for his 3rd school in 3 yrs with no issues? Everything about that is wrong.
 
Definitely wrong but it is still happening (Horton). The transfer Rules used to be first 5 Games (1/2) season. That changed I think in past few years ago to last 5 for Football?? I would also like to think that Any Fall Sport Transfer Athletes eligibility should been determined before regular season started. If this is the case the Staff has known the situation.


FREE PBOY!!!
 
SMARTY22 said:
Definitely wrong but it is still happening (Horton). The transfer Rules used to be first 5 Games (1/2) season. That changed I think in past few years ago to last 5 for Football?? I would also like to think that Any Fall Sport Transfer Athletes eligibility should been determined before regular season started. If this is the case the Staff has known the situation.


FREE PBOY!!!
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That’s not enough. If his eligibility is still in question, they need to be getting with outside counsel right now. They can’t let themselves or their athlete get screwed like this. It’s wrong and they need to fight back with everything they’ve got at their disposal.

The hypocrisy and draconian nature of the application of these rules is sickening. Want to explain how the Mahaffey kid can transfer from Northwest to Moe and be eligible the entire basketball season? No, bc they can’t do it.
 
I was told he met one of the transfer rule exceptions. Now I'm hearing he will have to sit out the 2nd half of the season. What a mess.
 
Ryle will be his last game if he has not been cleared. He will have to sit out the 2nd half starting with St. Xavier week 6.
 
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