WCAL 2022-23

3out2in said:
Could say the same thing about the superintendent who hired him after that extensive interview process. :)
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When you are losing to teams like Tuslaw and Northwestern this year, you know there are major troubles in that Orrville program. I do not blame it all on the head coach, but it is surely time for a change. That is not a varsity team they are running out there every night. It is just a team playing at the varsity level. The effort level is pathetic.
 
187xovr said:
When you are losing to teams like Tuslaw and Northwestern this year, you know there are major troubles in that Orrville program. I do not blame it all on the head coach, but it is surely time for a change. That is not a varsity team they are running out there every night. It is just a team playing at the varsity level. The effort level is pathetic.
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Couldn't agree more. When the effort level is this low, it speaks volumes about the state of the program.
 
I watched the stream replay of the Dalton vs Norwayne game from Friday night. That was a high level small school basketball game. Both teams played pretty well and the crowd was great. While role players had huge moments on both sides, the game came down to the guard match up of Ethan Hann against Jack Steiner and the wing/forward matchup between Justin Rupp and Braylon Wenger. I expected Hann and Wenger to win those matchups. It was going to come down to who dominated their match up more. Jack Steiner got off to a slow start, but played Hann pretty evenly through the last 3 quarters. Wenger thoroughly outplayed Rupp throughout the game. I have watched Dalton, Smithville, and Norwayne pretty closely the last several years. Most people, including me, expected more parity in the WCAL this year. I fully expected a team outside of the top three grab a win against Dalton, Smithville, or Norwayne this year. As it turns out, we were likely a Braylon Wenger injury away from having identical league results as we had the last two years. Him missing that early game against Smithville gave a share of the league to Smithville and Norwayne. Considering Dalton never lost against Smithville when he played, you would have to think Dalton would have won that game in early December with him on the floor. Dalton vs Norwayne and Norwayne vs Smithville was a 1-1 split for the fourth consecutive year. Dalton vs Norwayne has actually been a split the last five years in a row now.

It is impossible not to notice the rumblings coming from the Dalton fans regarding the officiating in the game Friday night. I do not know what all has gone on behind the scenes, but I do know that the same ref should not be working almost every big Norwayne game there is to work. I was told the same official has worked the last 3 Norwayne vs Dalton games. The same official also worked the Smithville at Norwayne game earlier this year. After Norwayne beat Dalton last year to climb within a game of the WCAL lead in the middle of the season, that same ref showed up to work the Dalton vs Smithville game the next week. Those are the only times this paticular ref has worked a Dalton game. All signs point to some pretty shady activity taking place here. It does not matter how good a ref is; there is no way the same ref should have this much control over these high level, league altering games. This is completely unnecessary as there are hundreds of officials more than capable of calling these games well in northeast Ohio. Norwayne's program is much too strong to resort to manipulating which officials work their big games. Everyone involved needs to do better for the players on the floor. These games should not have any stench of being rigged or manipulated by the adults involved.
 
Bobcatsfan2016 said:
Tbh I don’t think malvern could hang with Norwayne or dalton . Garaway vs dalton and Norwayne would be fun tho
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hiland almost beat Norwayne. Malvern could very well give Dalton and Norwayne a game and probably win. Malvern's point guard Barrino is the real deal. He averages 17/5/5 and five steals a game
 
187xovr said:
I watched the stream replay of the Dalton vs Norwayne game from Friday night. That was a high level small school basketball game. Both teams played pretty well and the crowd was great. While role players had huge moments on both sides, the game came down to the guard match up of Ethan Hann against Jack Steiner and the wing/forward matchup between Justin Rupp and Braylon Wenger. I expected Hann and Wenger to win those matchups. It was going to come down to who dominated their match up more. Jack Steiner got off to a slow start, but played Hann pretty evenly through the last 3 quarters. Wenger thoroughly outplayed Rupp throughout the game. I have watched Dalton, Smithville, and Norwayne pretty closely the last several years. Most people, including me, expected more parity in the WCAL this year. I fully expected a team outside of the top three grab a win against Dalton, Smithville, or Norwayne this year. As it turns out, we were likely a Braylon Wenger injury away from having identical league results as we had the last two years. Him missing that early game against Smithville gave a share of the league to Smithville and Norwayne. Considering Dalton never lost against Smithville when he played, you would have to think Dalton would have won that game in early December with him on the floor. Dalton vs Norwayne and Norwayne vs Smithville was a 1-1 split for the fourth consecutive year. Dalton vs Norwayne has actually been a split the last five years in a row now.

It is impossible not to notice the rumblings coming from the Dalton fans regarding the officiating in the game Friday night. I do not know what all has gone on behind the scenes, but I do know that the same ref should not be working almost every big Norwayne game there is to work. I was told the same official has worked the last 3 Norwayne vs Dalton games. The same official also worked the Smithville at Norwayne game earlier this year. After Norwayne beat Dalton last year to climb within a game of the WCAL lead in the middle of the season, that same ref showed up to work the Dalton vs Smithville game the next week. Those are the only times this paticular ref has worked a Dalton game. All signs point to some pretty shady activity taking place here. It does not matter how good a ref is; there is no way the same ref should have this much control over these high level, league altering games. This is completely unnecessary as there are hundreds of officials more than capable of calling these games well in northeast Ohio. Norwayne's program is much too strong to resort to manipulating which officials work their big games. Everyone involved needs to do better for the players on the floor. These games should not have any stench of being rigged or manipulated by the adults involved.
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where did you watch the replay
 
Dalton's Braylon Wenger has been named 2022-23 MVP of the WCAL. He received 5 of the 8 votes. Justin Rupp (Norwayne) received 2 votes and Carter Piatt (Smithville) received 1 vote. It would be interesting to know which school voted for who. I thought Wenger was the clear cut choice to win it, but I'm not sure how Ethan Hann from Norwayne did not get a vote. I would have ranked the top players this way.

Braylon Wenger
Ethan Hann
Justin Rupp
Carter Piatt

Anyways, its tournament time now! Good luck to everyone in the league.
 
187xovr said:
I watched the stream replay of the Dalton vs Norwayne game from Friday night. That was a high level small school basketball game. Both teams played pretty well and the crowd was great. While role players had huge moments on both sides, the game came down to the guard match up of Ethan Hann against Jack Steiner and the wing/forward matchup between Justin Rupp and Braylon Wenger. I expected Hann and Wenger to win those matchups. It was going to come down to who dominated their match up more. Jack Steiner got off to a slow start, but played Hann pretty evenly through the last 3 quarters. Wenger thoroughly outplayed Rupp throughout the game. I have watched Dalton, Smithville, and Norwayne pretty closely the last several years. Most people, including me, expected more parity in the WCAL this year. I fully expected a team outside of the top three grab a win against Dalton, Smithville, or Norwayne this year. As it turns out, we were likely a Braylon Wenger injury away from having identical league results as we had the last two years. Him missing that early game against Smithville gave a share of the league to Smithville and Norwayne. Considering Dalton never lost against Smithville when he played, you would have to think Dalton would have won that game in early December with him on the floor. Dalton vs Norwayne and Norwayne vs Smithville was a 1-1 split for the fourth consecutive year. Dalton vs Norwayne has actually been a split the last five years in a row now.

It is impossible not to notice the rumblings coming from the Dalton fans regarding the officiating in the game Friday night. I do not know what all has gone on behind the scenes, but I do know that the same ref should not be working almost every big Norwayne game there is to work. I was told the same official has worked the last 3 Norwayne vs Dalton games. The same official also worked the Smithville at Norwayne game earlier this year. After Norwayne beat Dalton last year to climb within a game of the WCAL lead in the middle of the season, that same ref showed up to work the Dalton vs Smithville game the next week. Those are the only times this paticular ref has worked a Dalton game. All signs point to some pretty shady activity taking place here. It does not matter how good a ref is; there is no way the same ref should have this much control over these high level, league altering games. This is completely unnecessary as there are hundreds of officials more than capable of calling these games well in northeast Ohio. Norwayne's program is much too strong to resort to manipulating which officials work their big games. Everyone involved needs to do better for the players on the floor. These games should not have any stench of being rigged or manipulated by the adults involved.
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A lot to unwrap here....so lets take a peek into the world of officiating and the politics involved...

Let's start by breaking down how officials are placed on certain games. Let's begin by saying an assigner probably has tiers of officials he/she uses - Officials he considers "A" officials, "B", "C", and "D - emergency guys". On a normal average game, an assigner probably wants 1 of each A,B,C officials. Now let's look at Friday night specifically:

Norwayne @ Dalton - probably going to want 3 "A" officials on this game
Smithville @ Chippewa - this could be a contested/close/physical game, also has title implications, probably would like to get 2 "A" and 1 "B" officials for this one. Could settle for 1 "A" and 2 "B" guys/gals.
Waynedale @ Hillsdale - Ideally, A, B, C. Probably ends up being B,C,C
Rittman @ Northwestern. - Ideally A,B,C - reality though probably ends up being B,C,C/D

Now - you also need to keep in mind, that we're talking about D3/4 basketball in Wayne County. The majority of "A" officials aren't coming to WCAL regardless of how good the game is. Those officials are doing Federal, Suburban, and games up North with the bigger schools. So the pool of "A" officials, or even "B" officials is limited. Now, I agree with you, you don't want the same exact crew of officials doing all the best games in one league, so you are limiting yourself even more on those higher tier officials. You also have to add into the equation that WCAL is THE CHEAPEST officiating fee in NEO. A varsity official in WCAL makes $70/game, there are other leagues that pay up to $90/game. So you've limited yourself even more!

So, all that being said, it would appear as though you are seeing the case where there is a "A" rated official that does not have a problem working WCAL games. Therefore, it makes it easy on the assigner to use that official on the big games. Then he only needs to ever find 2 more good officials for his big games. I can also tell you, WCAL is a different animal in terms of how coaches act, and what they are able to get away with. Officials know the coaches, and they know what to expect from each coach before the game starts. I'm not saying it's right, but because there is a pretty long history of how each coach acts during a game, some coaches get longer leashes than others because if everyone had the same leash, there are certain coaches that would get T'd up every single game. Again, it's not right, but there have been years of precedent established on this - at some point, it has to change.....just don't know when that'll happen.

You have to consider that the assignor for the league answers ultimately to the coaches/ADs/Administrators of each school. If a couple coaches who have been afforded long leashes over the years all of a sudden starts getting T'd up every game, the assignor will have to answer to that. And those coaches are never accepting an explanation of "well you've had it coming for a long time"

I can also tell you - especially for a Dalton home game, the Norwayne coach very little say in any specific official requests prior to that game...and tbh...most of the officials working in WCAL are not from Wayne County anyways - so they couldn't care less who wins each game...
 
187xovr said:
Dalton's Braylon Wenger has been named 2022-23 MVP of the WCAL. He received 5 of the 8 votes. Justin Rupp (Norwayne) received 2 votes and Carter Piatt (Smithville) received 1 vote. It would be interesting to know which school voted for who. I thought Wenger was the clear cut choice to win it, but I'm not sure how Ethan Hann from Norwayne did not get a vote. I would have ranked the top players this way.

Braylon Wenger
Ethan Hann
Justin Rupp
Carter Piatt

Anyways, it's tournament time now! Good luck to everyone in the league.
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You know the ballots man something like
Wenger
Waynedale Chippewa Rittman Hillsdale Dalton
Rupp
Norwayne Northwestern
Piatt
Smithville
 
Bulldogs1275 said:
Not sure how the vote went but I'm pretty sure you can't vote for your own player.
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That is correct. Nobody can vote for their own player. Considering his production and how much he was face guarded, double teamed, etc and the fact that his team won the championship even though they lost a key game with him out to start the year, Braylon Wenger should have received 7 votes. That is why I think it would be interesting to see the voting breakdown. The right player won though, and that is what is most important when you hand out an award like this.
 
CasualFan24 said:
A lot to unwrap here....so lets take a peek into the world of officiating and the politics involved...

Let's start by breaking down how officials are placed on certain games. Let's begin by saying an assigner probably has tiers of officials he/she uses - Officials he considers "A" officials, "B", "C", and "D - emergency guys". On a normal average game, an assigner probably wants 1 of each A,B,C officials. Now let's look at Friday night specifically:

Norwayne @ Dalton - probably going to want 3 "A" officials on this game
Smithville @ Chippewa - this could be a contested/close/physical game, also has title implications, probably would like to get 2 "A" and 1 "B" officials for this one. Could settle for 1 "A" and 2 "B" guys/gals.
Waynedale @ Hillsdale - Ideally, A, B, C. Probably ends up being B,C,C
Rittman @ Northwestern. - Ideally A,B,C - reality though probably ends up being B,C,C/D

Now - you also need to keep in mind, that we're talking about D3/4 basketball in Wayne County. The majority of "A" officials aren't coming to WCAL regardless of how good the game is. Those officials are doing Federal, Suburban, and games up North with the bigger schools. So the pool of "A" officials, or even "B" officials is limited. Now, I agree with you, you don't want the same exact crew of officials doing all the best games in one league, so you are limiting yourself even more on those higher tier officials. You also have to add into the equation that WCAL is THE CHEAPEST officiating fee in NEO. A varsity official in WCAL makes $70/game, there are other leagues that pay up to $90/game. So you've limited yourself even more!

So, all that being said, it would appear as though you are seeing the case where there is a "A" rated official that does not have a problem working WCAL games. Therefore, it makes it easy on the assigner to use that official on the big games. Then he only needs to ever find 2 more good officials for his big games. I can also tell you, WCAL is a different animal in terms of how coaches act, and what they are able to get away with. Officials know the coaches, and they know what to expect from each coach before the game starts. I'm not saying it's right, but because there is a pretty long history of how each coach acts during a game, some coaches get longer leashes than others because if everyone had the same leash, there are certain coaches that would get T'd up every single game. Again, it's not right, but there have been years of precedent established on this - at some point, it has to change.....just don't know when that'll happen.

You have to consider that the assignor for the league answers ultimately to the coaches/ADs/Administrators of each school. If a couple coaches who have been afforded long leashes over the years all of a sudden starts getting T'd up every game, the assignor will have to answer to that. And those coaches are never accepting an explanation of "well you've had it coming for a long time"

I can also tell you - especially for a Dalton home game, the Norwayne coach very little say in any specific official requests prior to that game...and tbh...most of the officials working in WCAL are not from Wayne County anyways - so they couldn't care less who wins each game...
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Great discussion points here. Regardless of tier, other games, pay, driving distance, etc, you still cannot have the same official following the same team around all the time. Nobody else in the league has an official who does most of their big games like the official in question does for Norwayne. Since Ron Fuller became the assignor for the league, there have not been as many local officials working the WCAL games. I think that is a positive for the reasons outlined in your post. For the most part, the officials from the Cleveland area have no idea about the traditions and rivalries that are present in the conference. I think that is a good thing and reduces biased officiating that might occur elsewhere. Overall, I think the officiating in the league since Ron Fuller took over is much better than it has ever been before. The depth of quality officials working the WCAL games is really good. That does not mean that shady things cannot happen though. Simply put, when this official refs Norwayne games or other games that have a direct impact on Norwayne's place in the league, the game is going to have a better chance of going Norwayne's way. He does not do obvious things, but he is definitely favoring Norwayne in all of these games. He will waive off And 1s and call the foul on the floor, call a quick whistle jump ball when there is no real tie up, miss obvious possession calls when the ball is knocked out of bounds, etc. In these 5 games I am referring to, this official has made 10 total calls, at most, in favor of Dalton. I am including calls that are obvious and have to be called. The guy is a complete Norwayne homer. He made one call in favor of Dalton the other night. It was in the fourth quarter. He got a standing ovation from many Dalton fans. He was never more obvious than when Smithville played at Dalton last year. That is a 10-15 point Dalton win (minimum) with almost any other ref in the state working instead of him. Dalton still won at the buzzer, but that was as biased as officiating can possibly be. He was working that game to do everything he could to let Norwayne tie up the league race with Dalton.

The away coach has as much say as the home coach does when there is an independent assignor like the WCAL currently has. Brian West, Corey Kaufman, Justin Greenfelder, etc can all call Ron Fuller and suggest, prod, etc him to put a certain official(s) on their games. Each coach can also text/call the official(s) they want and suggest, prod, etc that official(s) to take a certain game if it becomes available to them. As my original post stated, the depth of quality officials is far too great to have the same official work 5 key league games (and 4 key Norwayne games) in the span of less than 13 months.

Nobody wants officials to come into these games and light up coaches with technical fouls. I don't think that would happen anyway. Do any WCAL coaches regularly get technical fouls in their out of conference games? I watch a lot of WCAL basketball. I am thinking Mark Alberts has been T'd up a few times. I cannot remember any of the other current coaches getting more than a technical or two. That is not the point I am making at all. I simply think that a deeper, more random pool of officials should be used for the top games in the league. It does not take a genius to figure out that the Norwayne/Dalton game on the last night of the season this year was going to be big. Ron Fuller had all season to line up quality officials for that game. No way a ref that worked the previous two Norwayne/Dalton games should have been working that game. It is a terrible look all the way around. Honestly, there is no way that ref should have worked the first Norwayne vs Dalton game this year after working the same game last year.
 
187xovr said:
Great discussion points here. Regardless of tier, other games, pay, driving distance, etc, you still cannot have the same official following the same team around all the time. Nobody else in the league has an official who does most of their big games like the official in question does for Norwayne. Since Ron Fuller became the assignor for the league, there have not been as many local officials working the WCAL games. I think that is a positive for the reasons outlined in your post. For the most part, the officials from the Cleveland area have no idea about the traditions and rivalries that are present in the conference. I think that is a good thing and reduces biased officiating that might occur elsewhere. Overall, I think the officiating in the league since Ron Fuller took over is much better than it has ever been before. The depth of quality officials working the WCAL games is really good. That does not mean that shady things cannot happen though. Simply put, when this official refs Norwayne games or other games that have a direct impact on Norwayne's place in the league, the game is going to have a better chance of going Norwayne's way. He does not do obvious things, but he is definitely favoring Norwayne in all of these games. He will waive off And 1s and call the foul on the floor, call a quick whistle jump ball when there is no real tie up, miss obvious possession calls when the ball is knocked out of bounds, etc. In these 5 games I am referring to, this official has made 10 total calls, at most, in favor of Dalton. I am including calls that are obvious and have to be called. The guy is a complete Norwayne homer. He made one call in favor of Dalton the other night. It was in the fourth quarter. He got a standing ovation from many Dalton fans. He was never more obvious than when Smithville played at Dalton last year. That is a 10-15 point Dalton win (minimum) with almost any other ref in the state working instead of him. Dalton still won at the buzzer, but that was as biased as officiating can possibly be. He was working that game to do everything he could to let Norwayne tie up the league race with Dalton.

The away coach has as much say as the home coach does when there is an independent assignor like the WCAL currently has. Brian West, Corey Kaufman, Justin Greenfelder, etc can all call Ron Fuller and suggest, prod, etc him to put a certain official(s) on their games. Each coach can also text/call the official(s) they want and suggest, prod, etc that official(s) to take a certain game if it becomes available to them. As my original post stated, the depth of quality officials is far too great to have the same official work 5 key league games (and 4 key Norwayne games) in the span of less than 13 months.

Nobody wants officials to come into these games and light up coaches with technical fouls. I don't think that would happen anyway. Do any WCAL coaches regularly get technical fouls in their out of conference games? I watch a lot of WCAL basketball. I am thinking Mark Alberts has been T'd up a few times. I cannot remember any of the other current coaches getting more than a technical or two. That is not the point I am making at all. I simply think that a deeper, more random pool of officials should be used for the top games in the league. It does not take a genius to figure out that the Norwayne/Dalton game on the last night of the season this year was going to be big. Ron Fuller had all season to line up quality officials for that game. No way a ref that worked the previous two Norwayne/Dalton games should have been working that game. It is a terrible look all the way around. Honestly, there is no way that ref should have worked the first Norwayne vs Dalton game this year after working the same game last year.
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you should get your reffing permit. I got mine this year. it's a lot more difficult than you think. If he refs Norwayne's games all the time then the norwayne coach probably requests him
 
SillyGoose said:
you should get your reffing permit. I got mine this year. it's a lot more difficult than you think. If he refs Norwayne's games all the time then the norwayne coach probably requests him
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That is precisely my point. Brian West is able to continually get an official who will call things in his favor on an abnormally large percentage of the biggest games that impact his team. There is no other series in the WCAL where the same ref(s) work every time certain teams play each other. For example, you are not going to get the same officials working the Chippewa vs Smithville games every year.....definitely not both games in the same season. It makes no sense to do that. It wreaks of corruption or whatever you want to call it. This really has nothing to do with how easy or difficult it is to officiate a basketball game.
 
187xovr said:
That is precisely my point. Brian West is able to continually get an official who will call things in his favor on an abnormally large percentage of the biggest games that impact his team. There is no other series in the WCAL where the same ref(s) work every time certain teams play each other. For example, you are not going to get the same officials working the Chippewa vs Smithville games every year.....definitely not both games in the same season. It makes no sense to do that. It wreaks of corruption or whatever you want to call it. This really has nothing to do with how easy or difficult it is to officiate a basketball game.
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Bro I initially read your first post & thought you were crazy. I actually see your point and I have to agree & think you are onto something.
You know all these officials better than us what are they telling you?
 
187xovr said:
Great discussion points here. Regardless of tier, other games, pay, driving distance, etc, you still cannot have the same official following the same team around all the time. Nobody else in the league has an official who does most of their big games like the official in question does for Norwayne. Since Ron Fuller became the assignor for the league, there have not been as many local officials working the WCAL games. I think that is a positive for the reasons outlined in your post. For the most part, the officials from the Cleveland area have no idea about the traditions and rivalries that are present in the conference. I think that is a good thing and reduces biased officiating that might occur elsewhere. Overall, I think the officiating in the league since Ron Fuller took over is much better than it has ever been before. The depth of quality officials working the WCAL games is really good. That does not mean that shady things cannot happen though. Simply put, when this official refs Norwayne games or other games that have a direct impact on Norwayne's place in the league, the game is going to have a better chance of going Norwayne's way. He does not do obvious things, but he is definitely favoring Norwayne in all of these games. He will waive off And 1s and call the foul on the floor, call a quick whistle jump ball when there is no real tie up, miss obvious possession calls when the ball is knocked out of bounds, etc. In these 5 games I am referring to, this official has made 10 total calls, at most, in favor of Dalton. I am including calls that are obvious and have to be called. The guy is a complete Norwayne homer. He made one call in favor of Dalton the other night. It was in the fourth quarter. He got a standing ovation from many Dalton fans. He was never more obvious than when Smithville played at Dalton last year. That is a 10-15 point Dalton win (minimum) with almost any other ref in the state working instead of him. Dalton still won at the buzzer, but that was as biased as officiating can possibly be. He was working that game to do everything he could to let Norwayne tie up the league race with Dalton.

The away coach has as much say as the home coach does when there is an independent assignor like the WCAL currently has. Brian West, Corey Kaufman, Justin Greenfelder, etc can all call Ron Fuller and suggest, prod, etc him to put a certain official(s) on their games. Each coach can also text/call the official(s) they want and suggest, prod, etc that official(s) to take a certain game if it becomes available to them. As my original post stated, the depth of quality officials is far too great to have the same official work 5 key league games (and 4 key Norwayne games) in the span of less than 13 months.

Nobody wants officials to come into these games and light up coaches with technical fouls. I don't think that would happen anyway. Do any WCAL coaches regularly get technical fouls in their out of conference games? I watch a lot of WCAL basketball. I am thinking Mark Alberts has been T'd up a few times. I cannot remember any of the other current coaches getting more than a technical or two. That is not the point I am making at all. I simply think that a deeper, more random pool of officials should be used for the top games in the league. It does not take a genius to figure out that the Norwayne/Dalton game on the last night of the season this year was going to be big. Ron Fuller had all season to line up quality officials for that game. No way a ref that worked the previous two Norwayne/Dalton games should have been working that game. It is a terrible look all the way around. Honestly, there is no way that ref should have worked the first Norwayne vs Dalton game this year after working the same game last year.
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I think one of the worst calls from the game last Friday was when a Dalton offensive player was dribbling got the ball hit off of his knee/shin area and he called a kicked ball. There is nothing worse when officials call a different game on opposite sides of the floor. If all of the officials would call it even and be consistent for both teams people wouldn't be yelling at them all game. Nobody would be yelling " Helen Keller is calling a better game than you".
 
I don't think there is any corruption. They want the best refs on the best games. Refs don't get paid enough to try and fix games or call certain things against teams. Refs don't want to be in that position i can assure you that
 
Bulldogs1275 said:
I think one of the worst calls from the game last Friday was when a Dalton offensive player was dribbling got the ball hit off of his knee/shin area and he called a kicked ball. There is nothing worse when officials call a different game on opposite sides of the floor. If all of the officials would call it even and be consistent for both teams people wouldn't be yelling at them all game. Nobody would be yelling " Helen Keller is calling a better game than you".
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That call was a joke, but it was a prime example of what that particular official does. An innocent, ridiculous call to try and swing favor to Norwayne. It happens over and over again when he is working these games. He will NEVER make a call like that against Norwayne. How about some of those foul calls on Steiner and Stutz? It is an easy fix...........just do not have the same official working all of these important games that impact Norwayne. Mix it up.
 
SillyGoose said:
I don't think there is any corruption. They want the best refs on the best games. Refs don't get paid enough to try and fix games or call certain things against teams. Refs don't want to be in that position i can assure you that
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Refs are human beings. There are going to be bad apples in the bunch. Nobody is accusing referees in general of fixing games and cheating. We are talking about the behavior and tendencies of one ref here............who just happens to show up and work big games whenever Norwayne is directly impacted by the result.
 
187xovr said:
That call was a joke, but it was a prime example of what that particular official does. An innocent, ridiculous call to try and swing favor to Norwayne. It happens over and over again when he is working these games. He will NEVER make a call like that against Norwayne. How about some of those foul calls on Steiner and Stutz? It is an easy fix...........just do not have the same official working all of these important games that impact Norwayne. Mix it up.
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Hmm...I've read everything you're saying. I agree 100% that ideally, a ref should not work all the big games for one team. I think it's less about him working the Norwayne games, and more about him being on the best games in the county on any particular night though - and right now, that usually involves Norwayne.
 
SillyGoose said:
you should get your reffing permit. I got mine this year. it's a lot more difficult than you think. If he refs Norwayne's games all the time then the norwayne coach probably requests him
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The coaches can ask for certain refs all they want, but again, like I pointed out - the assignor answers to the whole league. The only games that a coach can request and be granted the 3 officials he wants are for nonconference games.
 
CasualFan24 said:
Hmm...I've read everything you're saying. I agree 100% that ideally, a ref should not work all the big games for one team. I think it's less about him working the Norwayne games, and more about him being on the best games in the county on any particular night though - and right now, that usually involves Norwayne.
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I see what you are saying, but only agree with it somewhat. I follow Smithville and Dalton pretty closely. Dalton has had a higher profile than Norwayne the past few years. They have never had one ref following them around working all of their big games during that stretch. Far too many fish in the officiating sea for this to happen with any team. Lots of quality refs that regularly work WCAL games to choose from.
 
187xovr said:
He was never more obvious than when Smithville played at Dalton last year. That is a 10-15 point Dalton win (minimum) with almost any other ref in the state working instead of him. Dalton still won at the buzzer, but that was as biased as officiating can possibly be. He was working that game to do everything he could to let Norwayne tie up the league race with Dalton.

The away coach has as much say as the home coach does when there is an independent assignor like the WCAL currently has. Brian West, Corey Kaufman, Justin Greenfelder, etc can all call Ron Fuller and suggest, prod, etc him to put a certain official(s) on their games. Each coach can also text/call the official(s) they want and suggest, prod, etc that official(s) to take a certain game if it becomes available to them. As my original post stated, the depth of quality officials is far too great to have the same official work 5 key league games (and 4 key Norwayne games) in the span of less than 13 months.

Nobody wants officials to come into these games and light up coaches with technical fouls. I don't think that would happen anyway. Do any WCAL coaches regularly get technical fouls in their out of conference games? I watch a lot of WCAL basketball. I am thinking Mark Alberts has been T'd up a few times. I cannot remember any of the other current coaches getting more than a technical or two. That is not the point I am making at all. I simply think that a deeper, more random pool of officials should be used for the top games in the league. It does not take a genius to figure out that the Norwayne/Dalton game on the last night of the season this year was going to be big. Ron Fuller had all season to line up quality officials for that game. No way a ref that worked the previous two Norwayne/Dalton games should have been working that game. It is a terrible look all the way around. Honestly, there is no way that ref should have worked the first Norwayne vs Dalton game this year after working the same game last year.
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So here's my biggest issue - this statement right here. It's one thing if you believe he's slanted one way during Norwayne games he officiates. Its a whole other thing when you're accusing him of calling a game in favor of Norwayne that Norwayne isn't even playing in. I know you're wearing Orange colored glasses, which is great, I'm a huge supporter of the Dalton football team, but come on now. First of all, Smithville was pretty good last year, better than they are this year by far. I'd love to see what the total fouls for each team were in all these games - also, Dalton split those games with Norwayne this year, you'd think if an official is so slighted toward Norwayne that as you mentioned above, he calls games in their favor even when Nowayne's not playing, that Norwayne would have just won the league outright. Norwayne went 19-4 this season - the official in question was on half of Norwayne's losses this year....

I think questioning an officials calls is all fine and dandy, it comes with the territory. It's when the integrity of the game/official is put in question that's where I draw the line. Usually we accuse officials of having a vendetta against a certain coach/team, don't see the love affair accusations too often - I think both are ridiculous.
 
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187xovr said:
I see what you are saying, but only agree with it somewhat. I follow Smithville and Dalton pretty closely. Dalton has had a higher profile than Norwayne the past few years. They have never had one ref following them around working all of their big games during that stretch. Far too many fish in the officiating sea for this to happen with any team. Lots of quality refs that regularly work WCAL games to choose from.
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I totally disagree. You can look even 5-8 years back and look at the biggest games in WCAL - a lot of those games are reffed by the same dudes. I would encourage you to get out and watch a Rittman boys game next year. Let's say, Rittman/Waynedale/Northwestern/Hillsdale....any game involving these 4 teams playing each other and tell me which of those officials you want working your league title games. You aren't pulling an official off of a Suburban or Federal league game to work ANY WCAL game. So if you move an official or trade one from the Dalton/Smithville/Norwayne games, you're replacing him with an official that would have normally been on a bottom tier WCAL game. There is a reason those officials are working those types of games. My point is, you're pool of officials might be huge for any old Dalton/Hillsdale game.....but it's a very small pool for Dalton/Norwayne/Smithville. You put an inexperienced official on Dalton/Norwayne and you know what is going to hit the fan. It would be way worse than some kid in the student section getting tossed for saying something inappropriate.
 
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