Water Polo 2010

[preeder61]

Having just been surprised by how good St. Francis is and how their hole set has improved (this tore TW apart in the third quarter), I am going with St. Francis in the first semi over the solid defense of the Milford team. Low scoring game, 6-4

Having seen TW play both UA and St. Charles and watching the first UA v. SC game. SC was up 7-1 and just lost focus. Geer won't let this one slip away. There will be a lot of emotion in that game, hope the refs keep it in order. I will take SC in that semi. Higher scoring affair, 10-6

 

[swimfan]

Is it my imagination or has SC's play come back to the pack. They certainly are not the dominant team they have been most of the year. Are they choking? Or has everyone else just gotten better? I guess we need to keep in mind that this is all new ground for the boys at SC. All the other teams have been there before... so they know what to expect. I suppose there is a learning curve. However, if SC continues to look uninspired as they did last week end, I look for UA to beat them again. St Francis surprised everyone and looked very good doing it at the regional... I think they were clearly the best team in the North last week end. Can they keep it up? If they play simarly in Mason they will be playing for the title.

Preeder may well have it right, but I think UA may have SC's number and St Francis may come back to earth. I'm picking UA & Milford.

 

[superman61]

A Catholic Boy's Final. SC wins on Saturday.

 

[rjones]

Is it my imagination or has SC's play come back to the pack. They certainly are not the dominant team they have been most of the year. Are they choking? Or has everyone else just gotten better? I guess we need to keep in mind that this is all new ground for the boys at SC. All the other teams have been there before... so they know what to expect. I suppose there is a learning curve. However, if SC continues to look uninspired as they did last week end, I look for UA to beat them again. St Francis surprised everyone and looked very good doing it at the regional... I think they were clearly the best team in the North last week end. Can they keep it up? If they play simarly in Mason they will be playing for the title.

Preeder may well have it right, but I think UA may have SC's number and St Francis may come back to earth. I'm picking UA & Milford.

Finally, someone who sees the light! swimfan you have it right... UA all the way! UA proved last week end that they are the best of the South, now they'll show you doubters that they are the top team in the state... when it counts - at the end of the season!

 

[scwat]

States

If UA beats St Charles, it won't be by dissolving a big lead. I agree that Gear will change the substitution pattern that he used in that early game and will deliberately use the clock more if it happens that way again. UA will have to be in the game or have the lead to beat St Charles. I give the edge to SC, but they will have to want it and play with the same defensive intensity that made them good all year. If they are satisfied just to be there for the first time, they could be beaten. UA is still a bit of an unknown. Their early exit from Princeton was just 3 weeks ago. I wasn't at the South regional so can't comment on their play there, but with not a lot of quality wins, they cannot possibly be as confident as last years team. I think tradition means very little once the game starts. That goes for all of the teams.

In watching SC all year, I would discount the theory that they are choking. Other teams have gotten better. Also, I don't think St Francis was clearly better in the 1-seed game at Regionals on Saturday. It was a 3-3 game and St Charles had the ball with 30 seconds to go on a man-up. St Francis made a stop and a 5-meter shot was called on a loose ball with 3 seconds to go in the game. That game could have gone either way. All year SC has made enough mistakes to be vulnerable, it is just that a couple of teams have now capitalized.

In the other game, I also like St Francis. They have clearly improved from a pretty mediocre team early on and do swim well. I wonder if their schedule against some good Michigan teams and away from playing the same teams week in and week out hasn't given them some edge. Their goalie can be good, but I don't think he has been consistently as good as TWs, SCs or possibly others. His play will be a big factor. They go a little deeper on scorers than Milford, which really struggles on the offensive end from what I can tell, especially when playing against good teams.

 

[ScDad]

Proud of Thomas Worthington after a hard fought loss to SC in the last 20 seconds in back to back games tonight.
While it was a team effort, Sam Reeder really kept Thomas in the St Francis/St Charles games and was I think their most potent offensive force. Their goalie (what a wingspan) proved himself all year.

I don't think you can forget about Thomas's hole set and hole d. He, I believe is a fighter and held his own against a furry of attacks and was really singled out all night and all year, all the while setting up others to score. Meanwhile their hole set man was good and helped them out with those two goals. I'm dissapointed that they had to lose but glad we were able to move on!

 

[preeder61]

I don't think you can forget about Thomas's hole set and hole d. He, I believe is a fighter and held his own against a furry of attacks and was really singled out all night and all year, all the while setting up others to score. Meanwhile their hole set man was good and helped them out with those two goals. I'm dissapointed that they had to lose but glad we were able to move on!

TW hole set Phil Mueller and hole d Brennan Cline took and dished out all season, thanks for recognizing their outstanding efforts.

 

[bhs warrior]

I don't think you can forget about Thomas's hole set and hole d. He, I believe is a fighter and held his own against a furry of attacks and was really singled out all night and all year, all the while setting up others to score. Meanwhile their hole set man was good and helped them out with those two goals. I'm dissapointed that they had to lose but glad we were able to move on!

TWHS had their run, To the VICTORS go the spoils, as it has been in the ohio water polo world. Each year many good players on teams that do not make it to state are left out in the cold. Lets talk about the teams and players that have made it to state. TWHS is a good team and as it happen the odd team out. So be it.

 

[thedutchman]

A Catholic Boy's Final. SC wins on Saturday.

Agree

 

[preeder61]

Water Polo Trending

This final four does bring to light some interesting discussion about the role of a good swimming program assisting a good water polo program as well as the rise of private, single gender schools in high school athletics. St. F, St. C and UA all top 5 swimming programs. St. F and St. C all boys private schools.

There was a good thread earlier about the private schools not benefiting from community programs and having to build a program from athletes from different communities.

Is this a trend that will continue? Will St. X be the next water polo club to rise like St. Charles?

 

[jb123]

This final four does bring to light some interesting discussion about the role of a good swimming program assisting a good water polo program as well as the rise of private, single gender schools in high school athletics. St. F, St. C and UA all top 5 swimming programs. St. F and St. C all boys private schools.

There was a good thread earlier about the private schools not benefiting from community programs and having to build a program from athletes from different communities.

Is this a trend that will continue? Will St. X be the next water polo club to rise like St. Charles?

St. X has a chance to grow a strong polo team in a short period of time. With around 100 swimmers, there has to be a good selection of athletes in their program. The big obstacle right now is pool availability, which hopefully gets worked out over the next year. I hear that there are a few willing volunteers to help coach the team and get the program up and running.

 

[jb123]

2010 Regional
All Tournament Team

South

Brad Lebling - Mason
Connor Litmer - Milford
David Matulis - Milford
Brian Muff - Mason
Adam Rabe - Upper Arlington
Andrew Rabe - Upper Arlington
Tiko Nelson - Mason


North

Nick Carmony - St. Francis
Brennan Cline - Thomas
Max Herath - St. Charles
Orion Swanson - St. Charles
Brian Willi - St. Charles
Jacob Wood - Kilbourne
Matt Zimmerman - St. Francis
Salim Choueiki - Thomas

 

[ImPartial]

Hmmmm... So the top two goalies in the region (& state?) do not advance to the final rounds next week. Traditionally, 1st team all-state goalie goes to the state champion's goalie and 2nd team all-state goes to state runner-up's goalie. It will be interesting to see if either of these two guys gets any consideration as top goalie in the state.

 

[superman61]

Hmmmm... So the top two goalies in the region (& state?) do not advance to the final rounds next week. Traditionally, 1st team all-state goalie goes to the state champion's goalie and 2nd team all-state goes to state runner-up's goalie. It will be interesting to see if either of these two guys gets any consideration as top goalie in the state.

Well.............. the best goalie doesn't usually win the Stanley Cup either.

 

[scwat]

All Region

Is this the real All-Regional team or just a proposal? Are there any underclassmen on the lists? Who are the underclassmen who should have received some consideration here if not?

 

[scwat]

Private/Public

Is this a trend that will continue? Will St. X be the next water polo club to rise like St. Charles?

A lot of factors go into this consideration. First, consider that generally any school interested in starting a water polo team, most likely must have a pool (rare in Ohio). The reality is they must have at least some support from the swim program (this has been discussed in earlier threads). Catholic schools naturally have decided advantages in most high school sports in that they can draw from a greater area and at least some athletes tend to choose their high school while considering their primary sport. The domination of St X, the success of St Francis, University and the recent rise of St Charles shows this in swimming. While it is nice to call St X a swimming dynasty, the reality is that they are simply not on a level playing field with anyone in Ohio. For this reason, rumored discussions between athletic directors have led to proposals to separate private and public schools all together in season ending OHSAA tournaments in sports like football, basketball, and yes, even swimming. Water polo would be exempt for now due to its limited scope state-wide. Of course, anyone considering building a water polo dynasty in Ohio must be a little scared of St X coming in to the picture, for obvious reasons. However, I still think it would take longer for the reputation to get around for a good program aimed at elementary and middle school students who want to train as water polo players in their youth. This is what really leads to good sports programs in high school and this is where the public school advantage still is, in my opinion. For public schools, then it comes down to a supportive community, good coaching, youth leagues, camps, etc. One other factor, however is always size. I see only one real difference between UA and and the Worthington schools if you compare them in water polo and it is the size factor. Imagine if Kilbourne and Thomas could combine their team year in and year out. That means bigger schools will always have a decided advantage that new teams like Dublin, New Albany etc. will have to deal with until water polo finally grows enough to separate teams into divisions.

 

[rjones]

I disagree that a public school advantage exists in water polo. Where is there a middle school water polo program? UA doesn't have one. I doubt anyone does. In reality everyone is inexperienced as a freshman and so each school starts on equal footing. That's why the top players year after year are seniors and juniors. When is the last time that there was a truly dominant freshman or sophomore in high school water polo? If there was it's only because he played somewhere other than Ohio before high school. UA is dominant in water polo because it has outstanding coaching and great swimming. Other schools can have that as well if they choose to support their high school program.

 

[danield9tqh]

I played in a UA water polo camp in 8th grade.

 

[GoinDistance]

I don't know if they still do, but Worthing used to have a middle school program. I suspect the reason the top players are normally Juniors and Seniors is physical developement. The younger players just don't have the muscle mass to compete.

 

[ScDad]

2010 Regional
All Tournament Team

South

Brad Lebling - Mason
Connor Litmer - Milford
David Matulis - Milford
Brian Muff - Mason
Adam Rabe - Upper Arlington
Andrew Rabe - Upper Arlington
Tiko Nelson - Mason


North

Nick Carmony - St. Francis
Brennan Cline - Thomas
Max Herath - St. Charles
Orion Swanson - St. Charles
Brian Willi - St. Charles
Jacob Wood - Kilbourne
Matt Zimmerman - St. Francis
Salim Choueiki - Thomas

no reeder on the list? he should be on there in my opinion

 

[preeder61]

I don't know if they still do, but Worthing used to have a middle school program. I suspect the reason the top players are normally Juniors and Seniors is physical developement. The younger players just don't have the muscle mass to compete.

Yes Worthington has a developmental program starting in 6th grade, but there are really no other teams to play, so it is really just skills and some scrimmaging. It does expose these young players to the game, but the HS game is much different. Look at the difference between JV and Varsity, huge gap. Physical maturity is a key point. Look at the size of Litmer (#5) from Milford. There is no sophomore in the state that can match his strength.

BTW, thanks SCDad.

 

[swimfan]

I disagree that a public school advantage exists in water polo. Where is there a middle school water polo program? UA doesn't have one. I doubt anyone does. In reality everyone is inexperienced as a freshman and so each school starts on equal footing. That's why the top players year after year are seniors and juniors. When is the last time that there was a truly dominant freshman or sophomore in high school water polo? If there was it's only because he played somewhere other than Ohio before high school. UA is dominant in water polo because it has outstanding coaching and great swimming. Other schools can have that as well if they choose to support their high school program.

I think rjones' point is that everyone more or less starts equal with no experience in the game. Yes physical maturity is an asset but understanding the game and having ball skills are even more important. If it were just a matter of physical maturity then SC would have dominated from the outset as they had a senior laden strong swimming team in 07. But it has taken them 4 years to join the top teams. The freshman from 07 are now seniors. They have had the same amount of experience as everyone else. New Albany is a good example. They are competitive with the JV teams because this being their second year that is where they are skill wise. Yet they have juniors and seniors who are far more physically mature. So I don't think a community school has any advantage over the private schools. The schools with enough players to field a JV team and good coaching are going to have the best teams each year.

 

[superman61]

no reeder on the list? he should be on there in my opinion

Agreed, not sure what games the refs and coaches were watching to make their choices. He won all the swim offs that were actually done at mid pool scored more than half the other teams combined and made some really good passes.

 

[thedutchman]

2010 Regional
All Tournament Team

South

Brad Lebling - Mason
Connor Litmer - Milford
David Matulis - Milford
Brian Muff - Mason
Adam Rabe - Upper Arlington
Andrew Rabe - Upper Arlington
Tiko Nelson - Mason


North

Nick Carmony - St. Francis
Brennan Cline - Thomas
Max Herath - St. Charles
Orion Swanson - St. Charles
Brian Willi - St. Charles
Jacob Wood - Kilbourne
Matt Zimmerman - St. Francis
Salim Choueiki - Thomas

Is this a reflection of the week end play or the season?

 

[Wookiefulover6912]

you're all wrong

All you old farts got it wrong.... Napolean for sure wins states this year!

 

[polofan2]

Who do you all believe is the top player(s) from every team? Should players from teams not qualifying for states be considered for All-State? Or perhaps players who lead their team without support, resulting in many losses?
1)St. Charles
2)St. Francis
3)Thomas Worthington
4)Worthington Kilbourne
5)Sylvania
6)Napoleon
7)Upper Arlington
8)Milford
9)Mason
10)Sycamore
11)Glen Oak
12)New Albany
13)Princeton

Also, where are the impact seniors from each teams going? Any headed to varsity programs? Or even collegiate club teams?

 

[preeder61]

Should players from teams not qualifying for states be considered for All-State?

Of course I personally think that a player should be considered for All-State based on their season long merits. Some teams play great together and make the final four and some teams have great players and lost by one goal

 

[thedutchman]

Of course I personally think that a player should be considered for All-State based on their season long merits. Some teams play great together and make the final four and some teams have great players and lost by one goal

I agree. All-State should reflect the entire season's play, not just one week end.

 

[bhs warrior]

Of course I personally think that a player should be considered for All-State based on their season long merits. Some teams play great together and make the final four and some teams have great players and lost by one goal

Why are we still beating this dead horse ? In most sports the honors go to the best players on the teams that win, ie go to state, preeder i feel for you but come on, i do not remember many players from teams not going to state getting all state awards. Now if your son is that good i am sure the folks voting will reward him.

 

[preeder61]

Why are we still beating this dead horse ? In most sports the honors go to the best players on the teams that win, ie go to state, preeder i feel for you but come on, i do not remember many players from teams not going to state getting all state awards. Now if your son is that good i am sure the folks voting will reward him.

Sure it would be nice for him to receive an honor, if he is deserving, but there are good players on Mason's team and others as well who are deserving of recognition. I am just stating my personal opinion. If you only select the players making the state final four, then call it the All Tournament Team. Why the "dead horse" reference? I just said what I thought in response with one post.