UC drops Men’s Soccer

Upper 90

Member
People were texting me and at first I thought it was just canceling the fall season and I was like "here we go" for other fall sports. Then I go to Gobearcats.com and boom out of here. You would think that FC leaving Nippert next spring that they could target some of those folks that don't want to go new location. Maybe create an experience and make UC soccer a party - but probably a pipe dream. Although the last time I went to a UC game I did have a great time. So now UC and Miami do not have mens teams, how is that possible?
 

CC Track Fan

Active member
I think this will be the first of many sports cut by colleges. Most will be men's sports. Colleges are losing money in many different ways right now due to the government reaction to the CV-19 and cutting money losing sports is one of the easier ways.
 
Absolute joke. There's only one reason why they made this decision: Big 12 move.

They retained Fickell. Big-name coach. Big-time salary. AAC sucks as a conference. It's time to make a move. Why else would a coach stay there when he had Mich St on the radar and the B1G? They had this planned for quite some time. The AAC lost UConn earlier. It's been done before that men's soccer takes the fall so that football can benefit.

Hiding behind a pandemic is unethical and dishonest. This has nothing to do with a virus and its "uncertainty." If it was about cutting sports to save money, they'd cut baseball who lost nearly twice as much in the 2019 fiscal year. I'd never advocate for cutting any sports, as these schools have the budgets to operate them all.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
Absolute joke. There's only one reason why they made this decision: Big 12 move.

They retained Fickell. Big-name coach. Big-time salary. AAC sucks as a conference. It's time to make a move. Why else would a coach stay there when he had Mich St on the radar and the B1G? They had this planned for quite some time. The AAC lost UConn earlier. It's been done before that men's soccer takes the fall so that football can benefit.

Hiding behind a pandemic is unethical and dishonest. This has nothing to do with a virus and its "uncertainty." If it was about cutting sports to save money, they'd cut baseball who lost nearly twice as much in the 2019 fiscal year. I'd never advocate for cutting any sports, as these schools have the budgets to operate them all.
What an uninformed post on nearly every aspect.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
Kind of like how you backed your argument with nothing other than pure speculation? lol.

It has zero to do with the Big 12 move as conferences aren't expanding. It has everything to do with the soccer program losing $800k last year and having little success with one year with a winning record this decade. I mean they went a combined 8-25-2 in the last two years. There is no return on investment. It's a garbage program.

Nowhere does the letter from Cunningham suggest it was solely because of the virus. The virus was the final nail in the coffin especially when there's a chance the university won't be able to rely on the nearly $1m it receives per home game between ticket sales, concessions and parking. Only an idiot would think the University spent less than a month into making the decision to cut the program. This has been looked at for much longer.

There are multiple reasons Fickell stayed vs. going to Michigan State and again, has nothing to do with expansion. It has more to do with having a better team, better recruiting class, and his family. It's the same reason he passed on the WVU, Arkansas and other P5 jobs to stay at UC. The same reason he stayed on as OSU's defensive coordinator for 11 years and took a job 90 minutes down the road instead of going further away earlier in his career.

UConn left the AAC to go to a basketball centered conference (as opposed to a football centered conference) because they dropped football from FBS to FCS since they were losing so much money in football.

And finally, athletic departments most certainly do not have the budget to operate all sports. There are only a handful of schools where the athletic department makes money. UC is not one of them, they operate in the red and have to dip into the general university funds. Other students' tuition should not be used to pay the soccer team's expenses.
 
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It has zero to do with the Big 12 move as conferences aren't expanding.
Who says conferences aren't expanding?

It has everything to do with the soccer program losing $800k last year and having little success with one year with a winning record this decade. I mean they went a combined 8-25-2 in the last two years. There is no return on investment. It's a garbage program.
Baseball lost over $1.3m, they've kept their program. It has NOTHING to do with success on (or off) the field. There's no return on investment in most sports, that's a lousy argument.

Nowhere does the letter from Cunningham suggest it was solely because of the virus. The virus was the final nail in the coffin especially when there's a chance the university won't be able to rely on the nearly $1m it receives per home game between ticket sales, concessions and parking. Only an idiot would think the University spent less than a month into making the decision to cut the program. This has been looked at for much longer.
Nowhere did I say that the decision was "solely because of the virus." But, the statement led off with: "During this time of profound challenges and widespread uncertainty, I have intensified my effort to study and consider the broad spectrum of the UC Athletics Department. This has included a comprehensive and thorough review of our sport offerings and the long-term budget implications of supporting the number of student-athletes currently at UC. "

Of course they've thought about cutting the program to move to the Big 12. It's been done before by other institutions, and it'll continue to be done -- not necessarily just men's soccer being cut. Look at Valpo cutting men's soccer, they claimed some of the same things that UC did.

There are multiple reasons Fickell stayed vs. going to Michigan State and again, has nothing to do with expansion. It has more to do with having a better team, better recruiting class, and his family. It's the same reason he passed on the WVU, Arkansas and other P5 jobs to stay at UC. The same reason he stayed on as OSU's defensive coordinator for 11 years and took a job 90 minutes down the road instead of going further away earlier in his career.
Yeah, okay. Go ahead and think that Fickell didn't play a part in this. He cannot wait until FCC leaves Nippert. He despises soccer. Ask anyone that's around the program (UC football or FCC).

UConn left the AAC to go to a basketball centered conference (as opposed to a football centered conference) because they dropped football from FBS to FCS since they were losing so much money in football.
And, because the AAC is falling apart -- plus, it sucks.

And finally, athletic departments most certainly do not have the budget to operate all sports. There are only a handful of schools where the athletic department makes money. UC is not one of them, they operate in the red and have to dip into the general university funds. Other students' tuition should not be used to pay the soccer team's expenses.
Schools can operate all sports. It's how they choose to operate them. Does UC need an $800,000+ budget for a soccer team? NO. No one in college soccer needs that. Just like Ohio State doesn't need a $1+ million budget for their men's soccer program. That doesn't mean they can't operate the sports and they need to be cut. College athletics has become a spending venture. Instead of managing finances better, they want to reshuffle the finances to compete OR be attractive.

Western Kentucky did the same thing in the mid/late-2000s. It's no secret these decisions to cut programs always have ulterior motives instead of "budget deficits."

Guess what...some donors came forward to fund UC men's soccer for 5 years, would cost UC nothing. UC turned them down.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
Who says conferences aren't expanding?
Oh right, I missed the part where the Pac12, Big 12, Big 10, ACC and SEC have added schools in the last 5 years. Good call.

Baseball lost over $1.3m, they've kept their program. It has NOTHING to do with success on (or off) the field. There's no return on investment in most sports, that's a lousy argument.
Where did I make the argument that baseball shouldn't be cut too? Right, I didn't.

Nowhere did I say that the decision was "solely because of the virus."
lol yes you did:

Hiding behind a pandemic is unethical and dishonest.
Of course they've thought about cutting the program to move to the Big 12. It's been done before by other institutions, and it'll continue to be done -- not necessarily just men's soccer being cut. Look at Valpo cutting men's soccer, they claimed some of the same things that UC did.
Again, has nothing to do with the Big 12 and you've brought zero evidence to support that claim. It has everything to do with the fact it's a garage program and cost a lot of money. Valpo? Oh, right I forgot they moved to a P5 conference and haven't remained in the MVC and FCS, good comparison.

Yeah, okay. Go ahead and think that Fickell didn't play a part in this. He cannot wait until FCC leaves Nippert. He despises soccer. Ask anyone that's around the program (UC football or FCC).
Where did I say Fickell didn't play a part in this? Now you're just making things up lol standard move when you have nothing to support your argument.

And, because the AAC is falling apart
No, because they are a garbage football program and lost money, similar to UC soccer being a garbage program who lost money.

Schools can operate all sports.
Obviously not. The schools give the AD a budget, and only a handful operate in the black or make a profit. It's really not that difficult.

Guess what...some donors came forward to fund UC men's soccer for 5 years, would cost UC nothing. UC turned them down.
I really don't care. Maybe the soccer program shouldn't have had 1 winning season the last 10 years and they wouldn't have been in this predicament. Sorry you can't accept it was a waste of athletic department money. Crying about it won't change anything. Luckily you still have a long list of high schools, XU, NKU and FCC to still watch. No one outside the program will miss UC soccer.
 
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Oh right, I missed the part where the Pac12, Big 12, Big 10, ACC and SEC have added schools in the last 5 years. Good call.
You serious? There has to be traceable moves in the last "5 years" to confirm/deny any expansion? Maryland and Rutgers moved to the B1G in 2014, sorry that's outside your 5-year window...

Let's not forget that numerous DII schools have made the transition to DI in the last "5 years" as well. Dixie State, Grand Canyon, Bellarmine, Tarleton State, just to name a few.

To think these conferences aren't trying to expand/strengthen/etc. is definitely a mentality to have. Not saying it's the right one, but it surely isn't how they are thinking.

Where did I make the argument that baseball shouldn't be cut too? Right, I didn't.
No one said you did.

lol yes you did:
No. I didn't.

Again, has nothing to do with the Big 12 and you've brought zero evidence to support that claim. It has everything to do with the fact it's a garage program and cost a lot of money. Valpo? Oh, right I forgot they moved to a P5 conference and haven't remained in the MVC and FCS, good comparison.
I love a good "garage program." Programs aren't cut for being "garage." There's ALWAYS an ulterior motive for them. Every school has garbage programs, and guess what...they are kept...routinely.

New Mexico wasn't garbage. They were cut. More athletic programs there were losing MORE money and they were much less successful, yet they were kept.

Where did I say Fickell didn't play a part in this? Now you're just making things up lol standard move when you have nothing to support your argument.
It's my opinion, and one that is very educated in what's happened -- not just now, but in the recent past. This has been evaluated for numerous years. Especially since 2016 or before when UC was originally rumored to go Big 12.

No, because they are a garbage football program and lost money, similar to UC soccer being a garbage program who lost money.
Probably 99% of college soccer programs lose money. Probably 99% of athletic programs (individual programs, not departments) lose money. Many are garbage too. Losing money AND being garbage does not lead to cuts -- especially in a singular program cut. Always more to it.

Obviously not. The schools give the AD a budget, and only a handful operate in the black or make a profit. It's really not that difficult.
Yeah, you don't know how athletic department budgets work. Okay.


I really don't care. Maybe the soccer program shouldn't have had 1 winning season the last 10 years and they wouldn't have been in this predicament. Sorry you can't accept it was a waste of athletic department money. Crying about it won't change anything. Luckily you still have a long list of high schools, XU, NKU and FCC to still watch. No one outside the program will miss UC soccer.
It has nothing to do with losing. It has nothing to do with "waste of athletic department money." It goes WAY beyond both of those. Just like any other program cut across the country does. Balancing budgets is not something schools are great at doing.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
You serious? There has to be traceable moves in the last "5 years" to confirm/deny any expansion? Maryland and Rutgers moved to the B1G in 2014, sorry that's outside your 5-year window...

Let's not forget that numerous DII schools have made the transition to DI in the last "5 years" as well. Dixie State, Grand Canyon, Bellarmine, Tarleton State, just to name a few.

To think these conferences aren't trying to expand/strengthen/etc. is definitely a mentality to have. Not saying it's the right one, but it surely isn't how they are thinking.
DII schools moving up to D1 has absolutely nothing to do with the P5 conferences expanding lol. Can't believe you tried to use that as a point for your argument. It's been widely believed that if any conference expansion does happen, the Pac, SEC, ACC and Big 10 will raid the Big 12 and it will dissolve.


No one said you did.
Then why did you bring it up?


No. I didn't.
Yes you did. "Hiding behind a pandemic."


I love a good "garage program." Programs aren't cut for being "garage." There's ALWAYS an ulterior motive for them. Every school has garbage programs, and guess what...they are kept...routinely.

New Mexico wasn't garbage. They were cut. More athletic programs there were losing MORE money and they were much less successful, yet they were kept.
New Mexico has nothing to do with UC, not sure why you even brought them up. Totally irrelevant. Good for New Mexico for not having a garbage program. UC did, it wasted money, it got axed. Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend?

It's my opinion, and one that is very educated in what's happened -- not just now, but in the recent past. This has been evaluated for numerous years.
Exactly. Not sure why you blamed "hiding behind a pandemic."

Losing money AND being garbage does not lead to cuts -- especially in a singular program cut.
Except when it does lead to a cut, like in UC's case.

Always more to it.
Except when there isn't.

It has nothing to do with losing. It has nothing to do with "waste of athletic department money." It goes WAY beyond both of those. Just like any other program cut across the country does. Balancing budgets is not something schools are great at doing.
Sure it does. Until you have proof of otherwise, and using examples from different schools with different situations is not proof despite you continuously trying to make it so, there is no point in continuing with a bitter fan who can't accept realty. I hope you can move on with your life. Enjoy the rest of your week.
 
DII schools moving up to D1 has absolutely nothing to do with the P5 conferences expanding lol. Can't believe you tried to use that as a point for your argument. It's been widely believed that if any conference expansion does happen, the Pac, SEC, ACC and Big 10 will raid the Big 12 and it will dissolve.
Go ahead and think how you want. You keep moving the goalposts.

Then why did you bring it up?
Because it makes sense to bring it up. If it were truly about finances, then make a major financial impact in cutting something that loses $500,000 more than men's soccer. Easy.

Yes you did. "Hiding behind a pandemic."
That's exactly how the AD led it off, using terminology utilized by all in this pandemic time. Everyone is literally talking about this.

New Mexico has nothing to do with UC, not sure why you even brought them up. Totally irrelevant. Good for New Mexico for not having a garbage program. UC did, it wasted money, it got axed. Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend?
Because, that's not it. Sorry you can't comprehend that.

Exactly. Not sure why you blamed "hiding behind a pandemic."
I didn't state that's the reason it was done, I said it was convenient to do it now and the AD used the terminology.

Except when it does lead to a cut, like in UC's case.
That's small-minded to think it's down to not being successful and losing money. There would be no programs at any school, basically. It's much deeper, always is. Been there, done that too many times.

Sure it does. Until you have proof of otherwise, and using examples from different schools with different situations is not proof despite you continuously trying to make it so, there is no point in continuing with a bitter fan who can't accept realty. I hope you can move on with your life. Enjoy the rest of your week.
Go ahead and think however you want. Programs aren't cut because of lack of success. We'd see cuts all over the place because of that. I'm not a bitter fan. I don't think programs should ever be cut. Opportunities for players at every sport is what I advocate for. I'd be saying the same if this was golf or women's water polo.

I've been in higher education for far too long and know far too many young people hurt by stupid decision making. This is yet another example of this. These schools aren't hurting for money. They have enough. What they don't want to do is reduce budgets from anyone -- especially those they pump money into for "prestige." Balancing budgets is not hard. As I said, no college soccer program should have an $800,000 budget. I know a DI women's program who spent $40,000 just for a chartered flight for 1 match. That's unnecessary. Another program had its 2020 season opener cancelled, and rightfully so...they were to fly from this region to California. That's unnecessary, and it should've never been authorized to begin with.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
Go ahead and think however you want. Programs aren't cut because of lack of success. We'd see cuts all over the place because of that.
Until you have proof of otherwise, and using examples from different schools with different situations is not proof despite you continuously trying to make it so, there is no point in continuing with a bitter fan who can't accept realty. I hope you can move on with your life. Enjoy the rest of your week.
 
Here we go, so you understand it's more than just me with no proof...

In what is likely a sign of things to come as collegiate athletic departments deal with the financial strain of the coronavirus pandemic, the University of Cincinnati announced Tuesday that it has discontinued its men’s soccer program.
-- Yahoo Sports (just one of several reporting the same across all college athletics, and colleges in general).

"We want national respect and the ability to play on the biggest stage possible,” Bohn told Fox19 in October 2015. “It’s really fun to be a part of. I feel like this is our time.
-- Prior AD statement about "prestige" and their motives. The AAC does not do that for them.

UC officials have covered the deficit with student fees and money from the school’s general fund, which is primarily funded by student tuition. For a full-time undergraduate student, the four-year price tag to cover the athletic department’s deficit was almost $4,900, records show.
How UC funds their athletic downfalls. If they truly wanted to cut budgets, they'd do a lot more than cut a program that only loses $760,000. UC students spend more than twice what other AAC schools (removing UConn) do to fund athletics. Cutting this budget doesn't move that hardly at all ($37 per student -- which they won't refund).

Knight Commission has their FY18 expenses at $64.76 million. Yes, a program that loses $760,000 makes a huge impact in that. C'mon now. Their endowment was up year-over-year to an estimated $1.4+ billion. They spend $2m more on the median FBS athletic department. And, their expenses are rising higher than the median. They aren't cutting any true budgets. They shuffle it around to do what? I'll tell you, gain "national respect and the ability to play on the biggest stage possible." During the 2018-2019 year, the UC athletic department lost $30 million! No DI athletic department in Ohio loses more money than UC. This is a minuscule budget impact.

Know another big difference in how this is done too? New Mexico regents voted to cut the program. Valparaiso makes a statement as an institution. UC made an announcement from the AD.

There's your reality. Oh, know what else is a reality? The Big 12 pays out $38.8 million per school (from 2018-2019). That will only increase with the addition of another program. Then they'll have their Big 12 title game in football. Grab another major media market -- on ESPN and FOX Sports. Know what the AAC payout is? It was estimated $1 billion over 12 years, or roughly $83.3 million per year, with each school receiving under $7 million each. Hmmmmm...what is better $38.8+ million or <$7 million?
 
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