Tie Declared!!!!

[eastisbest]

Safety of which players? The third and fourth line ones who certainly weren't tired?

Safety of the ones that the coaches and the adminstrators and others not you, were responsible for. Obviously, any danger they might have been in of no consequence to you but fortunately it mattered to those put in charge.


Finishing the Game

I really do believe it wouldn't be that difficult to find donated ice time and donated funds to cover insurance.... but that's up to the schools. Guarenteed money maker. Who WOULDN't want to go? News services would be all over it.

Some of the other options for determining a winner, I don't understand their merit? How is who scored first determining the better team (on that day) or someone even posted, pulling the goalies? Why would one team have to pull their strength?

BTW: in all the hub-bub about the NorthVIEW goalie, the other kid did pretty well to.

and, the ice on the lake: still frozen.

 

[Nature Boy]

None of these being single athletic "events"; rather, they are sports in which there are a collection of events in which points are awarded for each individual event and added up...and everyone understands in those sports that a tie is a real possibility...and an acceptable outcome.

Exactly! Complete apples and oranges.

 

[Nature Boy]

Safety of the ones that the coaches and the adminstrators and others not you, were responsible for. Obviously, any danger they might have been in of no consequence to you but fortunately it mattered to those put in charge.


Finishing the Game

I really do believe it wouldn't be that difficult to find donated ice time and donated funds to cover insurance.... but that's up to the schools. Guarenteed money maker. Who WOULDN't want to go? News services would be all over it.

Some of the other options for determining a winner, I don't understand their merit? How is who scored first determining the better team (on that day) or someone even posted, pulling the goalies? Why would one team have to pull their strength?

BTW: in all the hub-bub about the NorthVIEW goalie, the other kid did pretty well to.

and, the ice on the lake: still frozen.

You neglected to explain, or just conveniently "forgot", how the very fresh third and fourth line kids were in danger due to fatigue. They are part of the teams, aren't they?

 

[Falcon7]

You neglected to explain, or just conveniently "forgot", how the very fresh third and fourth line kids were in danger due to fatigue. They are part of the teams, aren't they?

Great question. I do not follow HS hockey, how many players for each team never played or played very few minutes?

Why do they not go to 4 on 4 or 3 on 3 after a couple of O.T's?

 

[Nature Boy]

Great question. I do not follow HS hockey, how many players for each team never played or played very few minutes?

Why do they not go to 4 on 4 or 3 on 3 after a couple of O.T's?

I did not see the game, but everyone who did on both local Cleveland radio and The Plain Dealer has said the third and fourth lines played very little in the OTs. I sort of understand why, since any second could have been the last.

But that is NO excuse to call the game on fatigue when MANY kids clearly weren't. I guess the OHSAA was telling those kids they don't matter. Now how is THAT for a message the suits are sending to kids?

 

[Wadz06]

Sounds like you agree that Ross was in a no-win scenario. He was bound by the rules on how the game is played... but had the pressure of player health on when to call it. Player safety has been at the forefront of the discussion regarding high school sports in recent years. I think Ross simply had no choice given this unforeseen circumstance.

What Iggy and Northwest should do is play again, sanctioned by the OHSAA or not, and put their respective title trophies on the line... winner takes both. Don't advertise it, don't allow fans in, hire retired refs who can't be penalized by the OHSAA and get some private rink to play it on. Agree on a tiebreaker in case this happens again, and have it out privately. That's what Rocky Balboa and Apollo Creed would do.

He wasn't bound by rules or he wouldn't have called a draw. He had the power to do whatever he wanted to, and could have called for shootout or suspension in play to be resumes another time. Nobody argues the safety card anymore, so that should not be the issue. The issue was a poor decision to call a draw, now 3rd, 4rth place, etc gets bumped up. Other states in NFHS play OTs differently, Minn and Mich have different OT rules so we can't blame NFHS. Ohio needs a contingency to prevent this. Had this been a semi final game it would have been finished. Ross gets the "Broken Stick" award for this decision.

 

[Nature Boy]

He wasn't bound by rules or he wouldn't have called a draw. He had the power to do whatever he wanted to, and could have called for shootout or suspension in play to be resumes another time. Nobody argues the safety card anymore, so that should not be the issue. The issue was a poor decision to call a draw, now 3rd, 4rth place, etc gets bumped up. Other states in NFHS play OTs differently, Minn and Mich have different OT rules so we can't blame NFHS. Ohio needs a contingency to prevent this. Had this been a semi final game it would have been finished. Ross gets the "Broken Stick" award for this decision.

What do 3rd and 4th get bumped up to?

 

[ohiopup]

... , now 3rd, 4rth place, etc gets bumped up. ....

No they don't! There is just no State Runner-up.

:>---


Up on 2 wheels 1982 Honda 500GL Silver Wing

 

[Kballer]

I did not see the game, but everyone who did on both local Cleveland radio and The Plain Dealer has said the third and fourth lines played very little in the OTs. I sort of understand why, since any second could have been the last.

But that is NO excuse to call the game on fatigue when MANY kids clearly weren't. I guess the OHSAA was telling those kids they don't matter. Now how is THAT for a message the suits are sending to kids?

I think the OHSAA was saying they didn't trust the coaches to make the right decision and bench any kid who was struggling and put in a fresh pair of legs. Ohsaa caught a ton of flack about the quarterback from Mentor going back in the championship game after what most agree was a concussion- I am sure there were many discussions about when to step in to protect the kids, especially when they can't always count on the teams to monitor their own.

 

[eastisbest]

You neglected to explain, or just conveniently "forgot", how the very fresh third and fourth line kids were in danger due to fatigue. They are part of the teams, aren't they?

Explain why you posted that you "didn't see the game" but then post that there were kids that clearly were not fatigued?

Why would I attempt to explain something of which I (nor you apparently) have any knowledge? You don't know that they were "fresh." I don't know that they were "fresh." The coaches made this decision. Freshness of their last lines might not have had anything to do with their decision but the explanation provided by kballer was exactly the scenario and situation that has come to my mind when trying to think this through, the Moeller-Mentor game. None of the coaches on either side of the field, thought to keep that kid off the field. They either didn't decide there was injury or they were unable to get out of "game" mode long enough to make a rational decision.

The St I coach had his kids "on the ice." The next day he strongly implied that he had been ready to go for that 8th OT but also apparently agreed the night of the game that the situation was "dangerous."

The coaches are in one mode, win. That's why it had to be an outside decision. Whether the decision was "right" or "wrong," for the coaches to come up with this would have been a miracle of out of the box thinking. For the fans to pretend they could come up with a better decision, in the instant, is ludicrous to me. I'm not sure we have enough information to make an intelligent after the fact decision.

 

[Nature Boy]

I think the OHSAA was saying they didn't trust the coaches to make the right decision and bench any kid who was struggling and put in a fresh pair of legs. Ohsaa caught a ton of flack about the quarterback from Mentor going back in the championship game after what most agree was a concussion- I am sure there were many discussions about when to step in to protect the kids, especially when they can't always count on the teams to monitor their own.

That is not their job, and is clearly overstepping their limits.

Games happened all season long without Ross babysitting the coaches. He should have been more concerned with finding a suitable way to determine a champion.

 

[Nature Boy]

Explain why you posted that you "didn't see the game" but then post that there were kids that clearly were not fatigued?

Why would I attempt to explain something of which I (nor you apparently) have any knowledge? You don't know that they were "fresh." I don't know that they were "fresh." The coaches made this decision. Freshness of their last lines might not have had anything to do with their decision but the explanation provided by kballer was exactly the scenario and situation that has come to my mind when trying to think this through, the Moeller-Mentor game. None of the coaches on either side of the field, thought to keep that kid off the field. They either didn't decide there was injury or they were unable to get out of "game" mode long enough to make a rational decision.

The St I coach had his kids "on the ice." The next day he strongly implied that he had been ready to go for that 8th OT but also apparently agreed the night of the game that the situation was "dangerous."

The coaches are in one mode, win. That's why it had to be an outside decision. Whether the decision was "right" or "wrong," for the coaches to come up with this would have been a miracle of out of the box thinking. For the fans to pretend they could come up with a better decision, in the instant, is ludicrous to me. I'm not sure we have enough information to make an intelligent after the fact decision.

I didn't see Gordie Howe, but I believe all of the reports that he was a helluva player.

And there were many, many reports in NE Ohio about the discrepancy in ice time the various kids had.

Oh, and the coaches did NOT make this decision. Well, unless you think Iggy's coach was lying on local Cleveland radio yesterday morning. If that was his decision why were his kids on the ice ready to go?

 

[Bennies'01]

FWIW, I've always felt that the growth and development hockey in Ohio has been hindered by some of the rules placed on it by the OHSAA.

 

[CatAlum]

There's no story here...move along.

The coaches didn't come up with the idea but they agreed to it. And quit putting the Ignatius coach in the place of a poster on an anonymous sports thread. He's acknowledged that he agreed to the resolution.

 

[eastisbest]

1) I didn't see Gordie Howe, but I believe all of the reports that he was a helluva player.

2) And there were many, many reports in NE Ohio about the discrepancy in ice time the various kids had.

3) Oh, and the coaches did NOT make this decision.

4) Well, unless you think Iggy's coach was lying on local Cleveland radio yesterday morning. If that was his decision why were his kids on the ice ready to go?

1) Which has what to do with your knowledge of the players and the coaches' decisions? I'm sure you think there's logic or reasoning in your statement but it's really just noise. Are you saying there's credible reports that there's been some lying going on? Link them.

2) I won't doubt you but that has what to do with the decision made? The coaches would know this and apparently it was considered and not pertinent or not true.

3)

The shared title was agreed upon mutually by the head coaches, school administrators and Ohio High School Athletic Association administrators, the OHSAA said in a statement Saturday.

After the seventh overtime, the head coaches, school athletic administrators and OHSAA administrators had a lengthy discussion. Many players on both teams were seriously fatigued and neither coach or school administrator objected to ending the game before the eighth overtime began.

Pretty clearly stated, the coaches made the decision as part of the whole.

4) As for his "lying," I already posted on this. If this all happened before he had his kids take the ice then I'd SPECULATE that he was show boating and also being disingenuous the next day. If the decision came after he had his kids take the ice then as I and KBaller posted, I'd say that someone brought to his attention some things he had not considered and he then came to a different conclusion about whether or not to continue.

It's not clear when this "lengthy" discussion took place and nature abhores a vacuum, doesn't it? "before the eighth overtime began" is so vague. Before the originally scheduled 8th or are they simply saying the 8th didn't occur because of the decision? If there was lying going on or unclear timeline, you can't keep that stuff secret long but Id presume CatAlum's post sums up correctly the events as they occurred.

Unless OHSAA flat out lied, something neither that coach nor his administrators have claimed, there doesn't seem to be anything else to debate regards his not objecting to and his accepting the decision?

The St. I coach made NO demonstration after the decision was announced. By all accounts as well his personal actions, he was part of the decision making process, agreed with the end result and life goes on. I see no reason to think his statements the next day are saying he didn't agree with the decision. :shrug:

You seem to have a conspiracy floating in your head. Instead of being vague why don't you be upfront and say what it is.

 

[arizonawildcat]

This game has probably achieved more notoriety than any other high school hockey game ever. Articles in the Washington Post and the New York Times, covered on Sports Center, mentioned on the CBS national news, and today discussed and debated on ESPN's Around the Horn and PTI. None of this wouldn't have happened except for the tie being declared after 7 OTs.

 

[EaglePride01]

This game has probably achieved more notoriety than any other high school hockey game ever. Articles in the Washington Post and the New York Times, covered on Sports Center, mentioned on the CBS national news, and today discussed and debated on ESPN's Around the Horn and PTI. None of this wouldn't have happened except for the tie being declared after 7 OTs.

At least the kids get something out of this.:thumb:

 

[Kballer]

That is not their job, and is clearly overstepping their limits.

Games happened all season long without Ross babysitting the coaches. He should have been more concerned with finding a suitable way to determine a champion.

I disagree- protecting the athletes is one of the OHSAAs main jobs. The concussion rules are a prime example.

 

[CatAlum]

I read on another web-site that Northview's first two lines played 93 of 101 minutes while Ignatius spread the play more evenly over three lines...obviously, a deeper team. It puts this situation in a different light, if true. One can imagine the commissioner intervening to end the match...afterall, he did just that. One can't imagine the commish ordering Northview to play 3 lines, though THAT has its own logic. Northview had a lot of fresh players...they just weren't being used.

 

[Nature Boy]

I disagree- protecting the athletes is one of the OHSAAs main jobs. The concussion rules are a prime example.

Who protects them during the 99+% of the games that Ross is not at? Do all of those kids in all of those games die because the OHSAA was not there to protect them from their evil coaches?

 

[Nature Boy]

I read on another web-site that Northview's first two lines played 93 of 101 minutes while Ignatius spread the play more evenly over three lines...obviously, a deeper team. It puts this situation in a different light, if true. One can imagine the commissioner intervening to end the match...afterall, he did just that. One can't imagine the commish ordering Northview to play 3 lines, though THAT has its own logic. Northview had a lot of fresh players...they just weren't being used.

Which makes the fatigue reason/excuse even more silly. Northview made the bed, why did Iggy have to lie in it?

 

[Kballer]

Who protects them during the 99+% of the games that Ross is not at? Do all of those kids in all of those games die because the OHSAA was not there to protect them from their evil coaches?

yes, that is exactly what happens. Seriously, this is certainly not a typical circumstance and in a lot of instances the referees and coaches are allowed to make decisions as far as player safety (lightning, extreme temperatures, concussions, injuries). I haven't heard anything about the referees in this- could they have been the ones to suggest an end to the game? Were they struggling as well? Did they suggest an end to the game due to concerns about player safety? Does their organization have time- limit rules?

What if they had continued on and a kid collapsed on the ice? Then everyone would condemning the adults involved for not protecting the kids. It is a shame that there wasn't a better system in place to avoid the tie situation, but since there wasn't the people in charge had to make a decision. Erring on the side of safety may not be popular, but it is always the right thing to do.

 

[tom_hsfootball_fan]

He wasn't bound by rules or he wouldn't have called a draw. He had the power to do whatever he wanted to, and could have called for shootout or suspension in play to be resumes another time.

Obviously you are unable to understand English. "Bound by the rules on how the game is played" ON THE ICE. He CANNOT have ordered a shootout by to NFHS rules to which the OHSAA complies, and a resumption of play at a later time has already been refuted.

 

[eastisbest]

Which makes the fatigue reason/excuse even more silly. Northview made the bed, why did Iggy have to lie in it?

Wait, so the motive behind all your butt-hurt isn't sportsmanship but that you thought St I had some sort of guaranteed win? 8 the magic number? Reminder: NV scored first when everyone was fresh. They had no problem competing with the #1 team for the remainder of the game and 7OTs. NV's goalie? Fresh as a daisy. This game was up for grabs.

The answer to your facetiousness was given by the St. I coach.

O'Rourke said he'd rather play 1,000 overtimes than see it come down to a shootout. Per a national rule, the game could not have been decided by shootout anyway.

"I hate shootouts. It's a team sport," he said. "I know my boys would have kept playing. I know their boys would have kept playing too but, at some point, the adults have to step in."

Now tell me again how the coaches were not part of this decision?

 

[Nature Boy]

Wait, so the motive behind all your butt-hurt isn't sportsmanship but that you thought St I had some sort of guaranteed win? 8 the magic number? Reminder: NV scored first when everyone was fresh. They had no problem competing with the #1 team for the remainder of the game and 7OTs. NV's goalie? Fresh as a daisy. This game was up for grabs.

The answer to your facetiousness was given by the St. I coach.



Now tell me again how the coaches were not part of this decision?

No, my motive behind intelligent posting is to expose that there were kids on both teams who, by looking at the amount of playing time they did NOT get, were probably not all that fatigued and could have carried on with the game.

How is Ross explaining to those kids that the teams were to tired to continue?

And, lost in all this, is the HELLUVA game the Northview goalie played. Just tremendous!

 

[Nature Boy]

yes, that is exactly what happens. Seriously, this is certainly not a typical circumstance and in a lot of instances the referees and coaches are allowed to make decisions as far as player safety (lightning, extreme temperatures, concussions, injuries). I haven't heard anything about the referees in this- could they have been the ones to suggest an end to the game? Were they struggling as well? Did they suggest an end to the game due to concerns about player safety? Does their organization have time- limit rules?

What if they had continued on and a kid collapsed on the ice? Then everyone would condemning the adults involved for not protecting the kids. It is a shame that there wasn't a better system in place to avoid the tie situation, but since there wasn't the people in charge had to make a decision. Erring on the side of safety may not be popular, but it is always the right thing to do.

What would they have done if this was an earlier round game? Can't have two teams advance.

 

[eastisbest]

No, my motive behind intelligent posting is to expose that there were kids on both teams who, by looking at the amount of playing time they did NOT get, were probably not all that fatigued and could have carried on with the game.

and as kballer and others have tried to tell you, but you seem to ignore, there was no guarantee nor requirement that the coaches would play those players. I agree with you, sometimes "fresh" is better than "best." Might very well been the secret to ending the game if one coach beat the other to that risky thought.

How is Ross explaining to those kids that the teams were to tired to continue?

As has been posted but you seem to ignore

O'ROURKE: sometimes the adults have to step in

And, lost in all this, is the HELLUVA game the Northview goalie played. Just tremendous!

except, nearly every poster, every news article local and national, has mentioned it.

:shrug:

 

[Nature Boy]

and as kballer and others have tried to tell you, but you seem to ignore, there was no guarantee nor requirement that the coaches would play those players. I agree with you, sometimes "fresh" is better than "best." Might very well been the secret to ending the game if one coach beat the other to that risky thought.



As has been posted but you seem to ignore






except, nearly every poster, every news article local and national, has mentioned it.

:shrug:

So now it is the job of the suits to go around and police coaches mid-game to see if they are coaching the way the State thinks is right? Seriously?

Coaches in many sports can do things at all points in games that could be construed by skirt-wearers as endangering athletes. Should they all be policed?

How very sad.

 

[Kballer]

What would they have done if this was an earlier round game? Can't have two teams advance.

Don't know- but they would have had time to figure things out before the championship game. Not offering a solution to the tie, just don't like to see the discussion only being about how some guy ruined the championship game when i think he acted in the best interest of the kids. I keep hearing the same argument- what was your solution since you seem to know better than the officials there? Could you live with yourself if you made the decision to carry on despite safety concerns and someone collapsed or was seriously injured? There was no solution at that point that wouldn't have been controversial, but they chose the one solution that protected the kids.

 

[Kballer]

So now it is the job of the suits to go around and police coaches mid-game to see if they are coaching the way the State thinks is right? Seriously?

Coaches in many sports can do things at all points in games that could be construed by skirt-wearers as endangering athletes. Should they all be policed?

How very sad.

back in the day- coaches would run football players for hours in 115* heat, full pads, no water breaks. We know better than that now. back in the day you would get your bell rung and be back in the game next play even if you didn't know what day it was or your own name. We know better than that now. You call it policing, I call it progress. The coaches are regulated because their passion and (as another poster put it) single-minded pursuit of the W doesn't always put them in the frame of mind (notice I didn't say "evil" as you put it) them to make the decisions that need to be made in the heat of the battle. You want to have an intelligent discussion but people who are looking out for these teenage athletes are called skirt wearers- brilliant