Thread Confusion: How does Professional Football move on from this incident?

LCL

Active member
My original post has implied a type of confusion in responses. I only ask how or if there will be changes going forward with professional football. I have been around it since I was 5 and am in my 11th year coaching High School. The look on players' faces last night just made me wonder how exactly the game might respond.
 
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cjb5656

Well-known member
No. Life goes on. Football will go on. Thousands of football games are played every year from youth to pro and an on field death is still…thankfully…a novel occurrence. Extremely rare. Some parents might steer a kid away from football. Doubtful any college or NFL player quits.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
I cannot imagine what it was like to be a person on that field last night. If you were a player and a father last night do you think twice about returning to play, and decide to retire immediately?

It would be hard to fathom that a wife or mother would be okay for their husband/son/father to continue to risk their life.

This is not a matter of war, as many people make football out to be. It is called a game for that reason. We have seen a lot of concussion injuries first hand on TV this, Tua's sack at Cincy comes to mind.

I love the game of football, but if teams bonded together and decided to end the season entirely I would support it. Of course this would never happen because too much money is involved. Still where does pro football go from here?

It is not an instance of a team saying that we are gonna rally around an injured player. It is an instance where players look to theirselves and say it could be me, do I risk my life today for a game?
Better stop driving, don't play baseball, soccer, lacrosse, hockey, karate, or any sport where punching or a ball is involved. Cheerleading has a higher mortality rate than football.
 
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MoeDude

LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Last night's tragic injury was inevitable. I've been telling my wife the past couple years that there will be a death during an NFL game sometime because of the athleticism, power and speed of the game leads to a more powerful impact of hits. With Tua Tagovailoa's hand convulsions to the Nick Foles convulsions incident this weekend, anyone with common sense could see it was only a matter of time it ended up happening. It will happen again, I'm not sure if there is a safety feature you can come up with to stop it. But the athletes are bigger, stronger and more powerful and it's only going to result in more incidents like last night's. Yes the Pro Game has changed, and the NFL Athletes truly are the Gladiators of the ancient past. It will be interesting to see where this ultimately goes but the shock from so many people just shows people are not realistic in general and refuse to see reality.
 

WJ-OSU-STEELERS

Well-known member
Yesterday a professional snowmobiler died in a racing accident, I learned a NFL player passed in 1971 during a game (he wasn’t pronounced dead until he was at the hospital) and yesterday a 38 year old former NFL player died of an apparent heart attack. I also learned a NHL hockey player had a similar situation happen in the 1990’s. As a kid I remember Ray ‘Boom Boom’ Mancini knocking out a guy who died.

It’s a tragic situation but life goes on. Football is a violent game, always has been and no matter how many rules, pads, equipment advances there are - it always will be a violent game. Hopefully Hamlin makes a full recovery.
 

MoeDude

LIVE FREE OR DIE!
...

I love the game of football, but if teams bonded together and decided to end the season entirely I would support it. Of course this would never happen because too much money is involved. Still where does pro football go from here?

...
Seriously!?!? You haven't stopped driving a car have you? You haven't stopped gong to public places with all the nut job shootings have you?!?!?

What happened last night is and was tragic but life is full of danger with every step and breath you take. Football continues to find better equipment for safety sake but it also continues to devleop the strength, speed and power of its participants. I don't know, maybe eventually the sport does disintegrate but look at boxing? Look at the shear brutality of that sport and yet it goes on.

Knee jerk reactons are not the best way to react to tragic incidents like this. We feel grief that they happen and that is natural and OK but to just quit living because of a tragedy is not the right answer.
 

LCL

Active member
No. Life goes on. Football will go on. Thousands of football games are played every year from youth to pro and an on field death is still…thankfully…a novel occurrence. Extremely rare. Some parents might steer a kid away from football. Doubtful any college or NFL player quits.
Okay, I apologize for thread implying I want to ban football. I have been around it as a player and coach since I was 5 years old and would never take any of those moments away from my life, as they have defined me as a man. I am only provoking a thought as to how football will change going forward, and how we as football coaches should consider changes.
 

14Red

Well-known member
I cannot imagine what it was like to be a person on that field last night. If you were a player and a father last night do you think twice about returning to play, and decide to retire immediately?

It would be hard to fathom that a wife or mother would be okay for their husband/son/father to continue to risk their life.

This is not a matter of war, as many people make football out to be. It is called a game for that reason. We have seen a lot of concussion injuries first hand on TV this, Tua's sack at Cincy comes to mind.

I love the game of football, but if teams bonded together and decided to end the season entirely I would support it. Of course this would never happen because too much money is involved. Still where does pro football go from here?

It is not an instance of a team saying that we are gonna rally around an injured player. It is an instance where players look to theirselves and say it could be me, do I risk my life today for a game?
What??? Do you really believe this???

I really don't know where to begin other than you must live in a crater and have all your supplies delivered to you.

Every single day, we step out of our houses, for many humans it's the last day of their lives, for a myriad of reasons. Good heavens are you going to STOP LIVING because of possibly DYING???

All football players have this in their minds from the first day they started playing. We have gone completely off the rails on this. Many people (or their parents if their kids) decide to not play football due to the risk of injury. My contention is there are alot of ways to hurt yourself outside of playing football.
 

LCL

Active member
Yesterday a professional snowmobiler died in a racing accident, I learned a NFL player passed in 1971 during a game (he wasn’t pronounced dead until he was at the hospital) and yesterday a 38 year old former NFL player died of an apparent heart attack. I also learned a NHL hockey player had a similar situation happen in the 1990’s. As a kid I remember Ray ‘Boom Boom’ Mancini knocking out a guy who died.

It’s a tragic situation but life goes on. Football is a violent game, always has been and no matter how many rules, pads, equipment advances there are - it always will be a violent game. Hopefully Hamlin makes a full recovery.
I apologize for implying that I want to ban football, as I have been around it as a player and am currently coaching it. I only wonder if we will see changes.
 

cjb5656

Well-known member
Okay, I apologize for thread implying I want to ban football. I have been around it as a player and coach since I was 5 years old and would never take any of those moments away from my life, as they have defined me as a man. I am only provoking a thought as to how football will change going forward, and how we as football coaches should consider changes.
Not much can be done. In a different situation, like when the player at Maryland died on the practice field from dehydration and overheating, measures can be put in place to prevent it. For this? Not much.
 

Yorktown

Well-known member
No one remembers Cory Stringer from Warren Ohio who died at Minnesota Vikings summer practice? Heat stroke I believe.
This is a risk in football.. Im sure even more mothers will not want their kids to play HS football now.
There is no 100% safe in anything.
We think we can regulate our way to 100% safe.
Only thing this does is take freedom away.
Yesterday a professional snowmobiler died in a racing accident, I learned a NFL player passed in 1971 during a game (he wasn’t pronounced dead until he was at the hospital) and yesterday a 38 year old former NFL player died of an apparent heart attack. I also learned a NHL hockey player had a similar situation happen in the 1990’s. As a kid I remember Ray ‘Boom Boom’ Mancini knocking out a guy who died.

It’s a tragic situation but life goes on. Football is a violent game, always has been and no matter how many rules, pads, equipment advances there are - it always will be a violent game. Hopefully Hamlin makes a full recovery.
And yet the game went on..
 

WJ-OSU-STEELERS

Well-known member
No one remembers Cory Stringer from Warren Ohio who died at Minnesota Vikings summer practice? Heat stroke I believe.
This is a risk in football.. Im sure even more mothers will not want their kids to play HS football now.
There is no 100% safe in anything.
We think we can regulate our way to 100% safe.
Only thing this does is take freedom away.

And yet the game went on..

I 100% agree, the game went on in almost every instance. Suspending/canceling the game last night was the absolute correct call. However, I disagree a bit about your statement of taking freedom away. Those who may not allow their child to play (insert sport here) choose to do so. That is their freedom to make that decision and does not impact you or I on any way. Living life in a bubble is no way to live but that is their decision. Now, if you or my choice to let our child play is limited, then it becomes an issue.

By the same token, as fun as the lawn dart game was in my youth I understand why it was pulled/removed from circulation and basically outlawed. Sometimes we need rules to protect us from our own stupidity.
 

MoeDude

LIVE FREE OR DIE!
By the same token, as fun as the lawn dart game was in my youth I understand why it was pulled/removed from circulation and basically outlawed. Sometimes we need rules to protect us from our own stupidity.
I sort of see how you were trying to relate this to this current topic, but I'm sorry we need to stop trying to regulate "stupid". That's like printing "this is not a toy" on plastic packaging. Why we cater to stupidity is beyond me. In those cases I say let Darwinism run it's course. Sorry for going off topic a bit but this one has always bugged me. But I guess in the world of lawsuits companies are forced to try and educate the stupid.
 

14Red

Well-known member
I apologize for implying that I want to ban football, as I have been around it as a player and am currently coaching it. I only wonder if we will see changes.
Knowing your background, I know you didn't mean banning football, but just something to chew on.

My thoughts are that while we talk about football being safe, do they enforce it at the highest levels. How many times do we see NFL players without mouthguards, which is an easy way to help with potential concussion situations. Remember the pre 90's styles of shoulder pads? The big, bulky pads, but they are desgned to protect athletes. Are newer pads not designed for protection, but more for comfort and the so recievers and DB's can make crazy athletic plays? Nearly no one above high school wears knee, thigh, hip and butt pads, required when I played.
 

OhioBobcatFan06

Well-known member
Last night's tragic injury was inevitable. I've been telling my wife the past couple years that there will be a death during an NFL game sometime because of the athleticism, power and speed of the game leads to a more powerful impact of hits. With Tua Tagovailoa's hand convulsions to the Nick Foles convulsions incident this weekend, anyone with common sense could see it was only a matter of time it ended up happening. It will happen again, I'm not sure if there is a safety feature you can come up with to stop it. But the athletes are bigger, stronger and more powerful and it's only going to result in more incidents like last night's. Yes the Pro Game has changed, and the NFL Athletes truly are the Gladiators of the ancient past. It will be interesting to see where this ultimately goes but the shock from so many people just shows people are not realistic in general and refuse to see reality.
Some people really don't seem to grasp how much more dangerous football has become solely because of the increased athleticism of players. The improved nutrition and training (and maybe some hgh) has helped players reach inhuman levels of athleticism, power and speed. The momentum of 250 lbs guys running 4.5 40's means more dangerous collisions than in years past.

I think it is very telling that NFL lineman often loose weight after they leave the league. Their playing weight is not natural. And it isn't just lineman this situation was a WR and S colliding. Two of the "smaller guys" on the field yet they are both over 200lbs and 6 foot running and fast.

This is something that the helmet companies have talked about with increased concussions. I'm not sure that better helmet tech does anything. Football was far safer with less athletic players wearing leather helmets. This is indisputable. Maybe the NFL will go back to that era lol
 

14Red

Well-known member
One of our bigger talking points today should be the medical staffs for the Bills/ Bengals who were lightning fast getting to the players and admistering CPR. Remember the days before AED's and required medical personnal. That player would likely be dead if not for the actions of these people. They responded and they responded quickly. Through many of the events from players dying at practices or games before, we've put these measures in place.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Some people really don't seem to grasp how much more dangerous football has become solely because of the increased athleticism of players. The improved nutrition and training (and maybe some hgh) has helped players reach inhuman levels of athleticism, power and speed. The momentum of 250 lbs guys running 4.5 40's means more dangerous collisions than in years past.

I think it is very telling that NFL lineman often loose weight after they leave the league. Their playing weight is not natural. And it isn't just lineman this situation was a WR and S colliding. Two of the "smaller guys" on the field yet they are both over 200lbs and 6 foot running and fast.

This is something that the helmet companies have talked about with increased concussions. I'm not sure that better helmet tech does anything. Football was far safer with less athletic players wearing leather helmets. This is indisputable. Maybe the NFL will go back to that era lol
Sir Isaac Newton figured it out over 350 years ago. F=mA
 

LCL

Active member
Knowing your background, I know you didn't mean banning football, but just something to chew on.

My thoughts are that while we talk about football being safe, do they enforce it at the highest levels. How many times do we see NFL players without mouthguards, which is an easy way to help with potential concussion situations. Remember the pre 90's styles of shoulder pads? The big, bulky pads, but they are desgned to protect athletes. Are newer pads not designed for protection, but more for comfort and the so recievers and DB's can make crazy athletic plays? Nearly no one above high school wears knee, thigh, hip and butt pads, required when I played.
I happened to catch a replay of Michigan's Rose Bowl '98. One of their player's pants didnt cover their knees and they got charged a Timeout. If you watch the game today, their pants are worn like sliding shorts, there are no knee pads on skill players, and helmets come off too easily. I'm not sure if this solves anything, but enforcing a stricter uniform couldnt hurt.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I happened to catch a replay of Michigan's Rose Bowl '98. One of their player's pants didnt cover their knees and they got charged a Timeout. If you watch the game today, their pants are worn like sliding shorts, there are no knee pads on skill players, and helmets come off too easily. I'm not sure if this solves anything, but enforcing a stricter uniform couldnt hurt.
I generally agree with this. Over the last 20 years players have gotten bigger/faster/stronger while padding (and by extension, weight added from padding) has gotten lighter and less bulky to improve speed. Helmet technology has improved but you regularly see players not wearing mouthguards during active play.

The odds of occurrence for the incident yesterday are freakishly low, but I do think trends in padding need to reverse backwards.
 

14Red

Well-known member
I happened to catch a replay of Michigan's Rose Bowl '98. One of their player's pants didnt cover their knees and they got charged a Timeout. If you watch the game today, their pants are worn like sliding shorts, there are no knee pads on skill players, and helmets come off too easily. I'm not sure if this solves anything, but enforcing a stricter uniform couldnt hurt.
We concede things for the greater good of the product. We have speed limits as high as 80 MPH because people want to get places, we KNOW that an 80 MPH speed limit causes more deaths, that's no disputatble. But at the higher levels, we are ok with this because it's an incovenience in our lives to drive 55 on the highway.

Football wants more speed and great athletic plays. Big bulky shouder pads and other "safety" equipment gets in the way. I get real frustrated when the league and talking heads say they want the game to be as safe as possible. No they don't. Justin Jefferson can't make high wire plays with big, bulky shoulder pads on. I recall my pads in high school covered most of my chest. I can imagine what NFL DB's wear for pads. The smallest shoulder pads and that's it.
 

14Red

Well-known member
The odds of occurrence for the incident yesterday are freakishly low, but I do think trends in padding need to reverse backwards.
This may be the best line of the day. Odds of the incident yesterday. We've seen thousands upon thousands of contact plays like yesterday, even worse than yesterday with no incident. We need to quickly understand this is a one off and part of football. IT'S PART OF FOOTBALL.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
This may be the best line of the day. Odds of the incident yesterday. We've seen thousands upon thousands of contact plays like yesterday, even worse than yesterday with no incident. We need to quickly understand this is a one off and part of football. IT'S PART OF FOOTBALL.
That's the thing, the type of hit was very routine and not of malicious nature. It's the freak occurrence of the hit timing up with the right moment in the player's heart rhythm to spur cardiac disruption and arrest.

As mentioned in other threads, this happened to an NHL player getting hit by a puck in the late 90s, and I think it was mentioned early 70s(?) A guy that was found to have a clogged artery died in an NFL game. This is a once in 25+ years type of occurrence.
 

MoeDude

LIVE FREE OR DIE!
This may be the best line of the day. Odds of the incident yesterday. We've seen thousands upon thousands of contact plays like yesterday, even worse than yesterday with no incident. We need to quickly understand this is a one off and part of football. IT'S PART OF FOOTBALL.
Actually, fans cheer wildly when a vicious hit is laid down on someone. That's why it seems hypocritical the way a lot of people are reacting.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Actually, fans cheer wildly when a vicious hit is laid down on someone. That's why it seems hypocritical the way a lot of people are reacting.
That and everyone praying and calling for prayer when many have turned away from the church. So sad.
 

D4fan

Well-known member
When the incident happened last night I commented to my wife how the safety had correctly kept his head up but noted how hard he was hit in the chest. I thought his falling over was probably due to having the wind knocked out of him. Then we learned it was much more serious.

So, what about playing the game in a suit that covers the chest much like an air cushion the size umpires wear behind the plate. This would allow for more extreme collisions that we all love while limiting the effects of such.

Flag football is an option, but doubt many would watch it if violent collisions were not a typical part of the game. If they had played the whole game last night they would have lost quite a few on both sides I'm sure,, but probably most would have just been concussions, broken bones and the occasional dislocation. Things we all love about the game.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
When the incident happened last night I commented to my wife how the safety had correctly kept his head up but noted how hard he was hit in the chest. I thought his falling over was probably due to having the wind knocked out of him. Then we learned it was much more serious.

So, what about playing the game in a suit that covers the chest much like an air cushion the size umpires wear behind the plate. This would allow for more extreme collisions that we all love while limiting the effects of such.

Flag football is an option, but doubt many would watch it if violent collisions were not a typical part of the game. If they had played the whole game last night they would have lost quite a few on both sides I'm sure,, but probably most would have just been concussions, broken bones and the occasional dislocation. Things we all love about the game.
Like this umpire had on:

As I poster earlier padding does not prevent CC from happening and it happens mostly in Little League baseball. Could suffer CC from a pitch thrown 30 mph, nothing can be done to prevent it except not to play sports. This is not a new phenomenon just brought to light because it happened on MNF.
 

14Red

Well-known member
When the incident happened last night I commented to my wife how the safety had correctly kept his head up but noted how hard he was hit in the chest. I thought his falling over was probably due to having the wind knocked out of him. Then we learned it was much more serious.

So, what about playing the game in a suit that covers the chest much like an air cushion the size umpires wear behind the plate. This would allow for more extreme collisions that we all love while limiting the effects of such.

Flag football is an option, but doubt many would watch it if violent collisions were not a typical part of the game. If they had played the whole game last night they would have lost quite a few on both sides I'm sure,, but probably most would have just been concussions, broken bones and the occasional dislocation. Things we all love about the game.
Good comments, the "style" of football is what makes it popular for people to watch. I don't know how you're ever going to take collisions out of the game. They are trying with the targeting rules, blindside hits and others, and we see how that goes.
As I commented earlier today on this thread, I'd like to see the shoulder pads be engineered to cover the chest area more. I played ball back it the 80s and those style pads coverd the chest and heart area. I"m going to guess seeing these guys today, those pads barely cover the shoulder area because they want to be "fast".
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Like this umpire had on:

As I poster earlier padding does not prevent CC from happening and it happens mostly in Little League baseball. Could suffer CC from a pitch thrown 30 mph, nothing can be done to prevent it except not to play sports. This is not a new phenomenon just brought to light because it happened on MNF.
Truth. It is not the severity of the impact, it is the precision of the location and the split-second timing. Just a freak occurrence and we hope it takes a long, long time before it happens again in the NFL. It mostly impacts younger boys (not a lot of chest muscle and tissue protecting the heart) and mostly young baseball pitchers, lacrosse goalies and hockey players. As the father of a pitcher and lacrosse goalie, my wife was well versed in this injury.

As it turns out, my older son (the goalie) had a lacrosse ball bounce on the turf oddly and jump up under his mask/neck guard and catch him in the throat his senior year in HS. Struggled to breathe, had a seizure, and got an ambulance ride. Quickly recovered though. Continued playing including a year of college club. Younger son was pitching his freshman year in college and got smoked with a come-backer that hit top of shoulder and cheekbone. Fractured cheek and concussion, but lucky all in all, could have been much worse. Played through his junior year but was never really the same.

I really felt it last night for Hamlin's mom, when they mentioned her being in the stadium. Those two incidents I mentioned were about the scariest days of my life. I wish that experience on no one, but we all love sports, and our kids love to play them, so you take the risks.

At least the NFL guys have plenty of doctors and medical equipment on hand. Youth sports are not so fortunate.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Out of curiosity for those that have had kids play football. Do you honestly watch every single play and worry that your kid is going to get hurt?? And at what point as parent do we stop trying to "protect" them from every possible bad thing and understand that life has risks??

Now I'm not advocating that kids ride motorcycles without helmets or do high wire walking without a net, but for the most part, football is a very safe sport, especially at the youth/ jr. high and high school levels. The speed and size simply isn't there to have the high speed contact like college / pro has.
 

D4fan

Well-known member
Out of curiosity for those that have had kids play football. Do you honestly watch every single play and worry that your kid is going to get hurt?? And at what point as parent do we stop trying to "protect" them from every possible bad thing and understand that life has risks??

Now I'm not advocating that kids ride motorcycles without helmets or do high wire walking without a net, but for the most part, football is a very safe sport, especially at the youth/ jr. high and high school levels. The speed and size simply isn't there to have the high speed contact like college / pro has.
I'm going to be a little more transparent than usual. I had a kid who wanted to play football at an early age but we felt it was too dangerous because of his lack of fear and throw caution to the wind personality. So finally his 8th grade year we said ok. Watched preseason with great concern until he cracked his femor at the growth plate and was done for the year. 9th grade year we again said no. Then allowed him to play from there on out. Multiple concussions, broken fingers among other things.

Now, I really enjoy watching football again, especially when the players aren't ones for which I owe the medical bills.
 
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