Thread Confusion: How does Professional Football move on from this incident?

[soccerdad72]

Positive update on Hamlin - he’s apparently being weaned off of oxygen according to a report from someone who said they spoke to Hamlin’s uncle.

 

[Head Linesman]

I'm going to be a little more transparent than usual. I had a kid who wanted to play football at an early age but we felt it was too dangerous because of his lack of fear and throw caution to the wind personality. So finally his 8th grade year we said ok. Watched preseason with great concern until he cracked his femor at the growth plate and was done for the year. 9th grade year we again said no. Then allowed him to play from there on out. Multiple concussions, broken fingers among other things.

Now, I really enjoy watching football again, especially when the players aren't ones for which I owe the medical bills.

shhhh you're not supposed to talk about how, if the schools sponsoring the teams had to cover the medical costs, football would go extinct.

 

[14Red]

I'm going to be a little more transparent than usual. I had a kid who wanted to play football at an early age but we felt it was too dangerous because of his lack of fear and throw caution to the wind personality. So finally his 8th grade year we said ok. Watched preseason with great concern until he cracked his femor at the growth plate and was done for the year. 9th grade year we again said no. Then allowed him to play from there on out. Multiple concussions, broken fingers among other things.

Now, I really enjoy watching football again, especially when the players aren't ones for which I owe the medical bills.

You certainly can go into the "live and learn" category. And sadly for some this happens. Not in your shoes, but I'd guess he'd get hurt no matter what sports he was playing, even if it was skateboarding and doing other thrillseaker things.

 

[14Red]

Truth. It is not the severity of the impact, it is the precision of the location and the split-second timing. Just a freak occurrence and we hope it takes a long, long time before it happens again in the NFL. It mostly impacts younger boys (not a lot of chest muscle and tissue protecting the heart) and mostly young baseball pitchers, lacrosse goalies and hockey players. As the father of a pitcher and lacrosse goalie, my wife was well versed in this injury.

As it turns out, my older son (the goalie) had a lacrosse ball bounce on the turf oddly and jump up under his mask/neck guard and catch him in the throat his senior year in HS. Struggled to breathe, had a seizure, and got an ambulance ride. Quickly recovered though. Continued playing including a year of college club. Younger son was pitching his freshman year in college and got smoked with a come-backer that hit top of shoulder and cheekbone. Fractured cheek and concussion, but lucky all in all, could have been much worse. Played through his junior year but was never really the same.

I really felt it last night for Hamlin's mom, when they mentioned her being in the stadium. Those two incidents I mentioned were about the scariest days of my life. I wish that experience on no one, but we all love sports, and our kids love to play them, so you take the risks.

At least the NFL guys have plenty of doctors and medical equipment on hand. Youth sports are not so fortunate.

About a dozen years ago, there was a big push in little league baseball for "chest protectors" for all position players. Now this isn't the full blown catchers chest protector, but a smaller pad that's like 6"x6". The issue would it would have to be attached either over the shoulders or sewn into a shirt. To my knowledge they didn't go over real well. As I mentioned earlier with speed limits on the interstate, we have level of danger we are willing to go to, knowing that there WILL be some exposed to injury. This player Monday night had that. Here's a guy who's played football for years, likely had the same contact hundreds if not thousands of times.

 

[14Red]

shhhh you're not supposed to talk about how, if the schools sponsoring the teams had to cover the medical costs, football would go extinct.

Um, ALL sports and extra curricular activities would go extinct, Including gym classes. Heck, schools may as well go 100% remote because you simply couldn't risk a kid falling down the stairs, which they do.

 

[Head Linesman]

Um, ALL sports and extra curricular activities would go extinct, Including gym classes. Heck, schools may as well go 100% remote because you simply couldn't risk a kid falling down the stairs, which they do.

I don't know maybe you're right on that.

 

[tom 48]

From cleveland.com:

Taylor declined to offer any of the details of their conversation, except for the first thing McDermott told him:
“When I got over there, the first thing he said was, ‘I need to be at the hospital for Damar, and I shouldn’t be coaching this game.’”

“I really felt that the way that Sean McDermott led in that moment for his players,” Taylor added. “He was there for his players, he processed the right way, which is incredibly difficult and really helped to get to the solution that we needed to get to.”

 

[14Red]

I don't know maybe you're right on that.

The schools do not have the funding to take on the liability of paying for athletic injuries. And on that same vein, any others.

Just a quick lesson here, if you fall in the parking lot of the grocery store, the store isn't responsible for paying your medical bills. Now, if there is a known chuckhole in the parking lot and the store does nothing about it, you may sue to get payment. American's are expected to have health insurance or some kind of medical coverage for their bills. It's not required - we tried that and it failed miserably - but everyone should have health insurance.

 

[wolves82]

Those of you saying "The schools should pay for injuries" seem to forget who is paying for the schools. Does the money magically appear for the schools? No, it comes from YOU, the taxpayer.

So yeah, if you would like to maybe double your taxes, then sure, the high school can pay for Billy's knee surgery he needed thanks to playing soccer or lacrosse.

 

[14Red]

Those of you saying "The schools should pay for injuries" seem to forget who is paying for the schools. Does the money magically appear for the schools? No, it comes from YOU, the taxpayer.

So yeah, if you would like to maybe double your taxes, then sure, the high school can pay for Billy's knee surgery he needed thanks to playing soccer or lacrosse.

Amazingly wolves, there are lots of people out there who think this way, likely they don't pay taxes or pay very little, and we constantly help people raise their own kids. I mean isn't the school lunch program kind of like that? I mean if you can't afford a school lunch, which is generally between $2-$3 a day - don't worry, we (the government (tax payers) will pay for it.

And during the pandemic, we just decided that we'd pay for EVERYONE's lunches???? And don't get me started on feeding kids breakfast too and sending bags of food home for the weekends.... I mean do the parents have ANY responsibilities???

 

[14Red]

Amazingly wolves, there are lots of people out there who think this way, likely they don't pay taxes or pay very little, and we constantly help people raise their own kids. I mean isn't the school lunch program kind of like that? I mean if you can't afford a school lunch, which is generally between $2-$3 a day - don't worry, we (the government (tax payers) will pay for it.

And during the pandemic, we just decided that we'd pay for EVERYONE's lunches???? And don't get me started on feeding kids breakfast too and sending bags of food home for the weekends.... I mean do the parents have ANY responsibilities???

My bad, we've got way topic on this one.

 

[soccerdad72]

Hamlin's breathing tube was removed this morning.

 

[14Red]

Hamlin's breathing tube was removed this morning.

That's awesome.

 

[Head Linesman]

The schools do not have the funding to take on the liability of paying for athletic injuries. And on that same vein, any others.

Just a quick lesson here, if you fall in the parking lot of the grocery store, the store isn't responsible for paying your medical bills. Now, if there is a known chuckhole in the parking lot and the store does nothing about it, you may sue to get payment. American's are expected to have health insurance or some kind of medical coverage for their bills. It's not required - we tried that and it failed miserably - but everyone should have health insurance.

well, there is a known additional risk of injury playing full contact tackle football, a player representative commenting on the case a few nights ago said that the injury rate in the NFL is 100% meaning that 100% of players get injured at some point in time to varying degrees. Just as a school could not sponsor a motorcycle trick team due to definite high risk of injury and death, the same applies to playing full contact tackle football although the death rate is lower at least by immediate collisional causation the death rate is lower, but the bodily injury requiring medical intervention of some kind might be higher.

playing full contact tackle football ****could**** actually be banned as a hazardous occupation under Ohio child labor law, as "hazardous or detrimental to the health and well being of minors", and the fact is that a minor male is incapable of making a fully rational decision to take up the sport at the tender age of 6 ---- and ---- if playing full contact tackle football in the National Football League is considered to be "labor" or an "occupation" and is covered under the NLRB as a job or occupation, any participant who performs essentially the same job tasks, (which all participants do), are partaking in the same occupation, the only difference being that the minor male 6 year old isn't getting paid, but is participating in anticipation of future fame, riches and NIL income. all little kids think they have the potential to be NFL stars, and that's what they think they are preparing for, otherwise they could not be enticed to go to all the practices, workouts and endure all the pain that comes with playing the game. in my opinion.

That being said, the hazards and risks are arguably offset by the parade of wonderfuls often cited as the reason such hazardous activities are being sponsored and promoted in the education system, including cultural benefits of participating in the "greatest experience in American culture" as one poster here on Yappi put it. I guess motorcycle racing or sky diving, while both would provide a much more exhilarating personal experience (which is one of the major benefits cited by Yappi posters as the central value to an OHSAA "title" being the "mental prize" .... the mental prize of jumping out of a plane and surviving free fall and landing would be high on anybody's list of exhilarating adrenaline generating activity, and would promote all sorts of educational values and benefits such as full contact tackle football is said to instill in participants.... (you know the old Vince Lombardi stuff such as winners never quit and quitters never win and all that rubbish... winning isn't everything its the only thing blah blah blah.... (in skydiving winning IS everything AND the only thing...LOL) ...for some reason schools don't sponsor motorcycle racing or skydiving teams and I just cannot figure out why not, given that all the medical costs and liabilities would be transferred back to the parents when the kid's broken body is handed back to them, just like it is in full contact tackle football which has a HIGH probability of serious injury associated with it.

So maybe you can tell me why there isn't an interscholastic motorcycle racing competition sponsored by the OHSAA. It would promote mechanical competence, motoring safety, competition, team values, all kinds of wonderfuls.

why don't we sponsor skateboard teams, snowboard teams, etc? Why don't we have interscholastic MMA competitions?

We like our interpersonal violence and intent to injure the opponent to be a little more indirect and disguised by the object of scoring a goal and points with a ball instead of direct punching and kicking? I see.

"The happiest day of my life was the day I broke the 5th cervical vertebra of a wide receiver with a great hit, and it was in PRACTICE and the receiver was my own team mate" a direct quote from a highly successful football coach who played at Marshall University and was later a defensive coordinator in the NFL.

 

[Bidenomics]

They should of moved
On and played the game the next day.

The virtue signaling is blinding from the NFL players right now.

You choose your profession. People die everyday unfortunately at job sites all across America. Regular folks don’t get time off, regular folks don’t get some made up pension when they suffer debilitating injuries.

These Leftist clowns continue to ruin society

 

[Indiandad]

They should of moved
On and played the game the next day.

The virtue signaling is blinding from the NFL players right now.

You choose your profession. People die everyday unfortunately at job sites all across America. Regular folks don’t get time off, regular folks don’t get some made up pension when they suffer debilitating injuries.

These Leftist clowns continue to ruin society

14 Americans die everyday from work related injuries.

The work goes on.

 

[WJ-OSU-STEELERS]

14 Americans die everyday from work related injuries.

The work goes on.

True, but those 14 work place deaths per day are seldom on national tv with 24 million viewing in real time.

For the most part I think this incident brought out the best in humanity. How many kids were wanting to watch a football game Monday night but now may one day want to become an EMT or doctor? America got to see the training staff work for over 20 minutes trying to save Hamlin’s life. Those who are spiritual probably appreciate and practice their spirituality better now than what they did Monday afternoon. The outpouring of well wishes and donations to Hamlin’s toy drive were a great thing to see. Sad to hear of those few incidents of humanity at its worse, such as the tweets of Hamlin’s injury being the Covid vaccine. Pure stupidity.

In the end this becomes a feel good story because of Hamlin’s recovery. Football is secondary but in about 2 hours the NFL will kick off week 18 and life marches on.

 

[Indiandad]

True, but those 14 work place deaths per day are seldom on national tv with 24 million viewing in real time.

For the most part I think this incident brought out the best in humanity. How many kids were wanting to watch a football game Monday night but now may one day want to become an EMT or doctor? America got to see the training staff work for over 20 minutes trying to save Hamlin’s life. Those who are spiritual probably appreciate and practice their spirituality better now than what they did Monday afternoon. The outpouring of well wishes and donations to Hamlin’s toy drive were a great thing to see. Sad to hear of those few incidents of humanity at its worse, such as the tweets of Hamlin’s injury being the Covid vaccine. Pure stupidity.

In the end this becomes a feel good story because of Hamlin’s recovery. Football is secondary but in about 2 hours the NFL will kick off week 18 and life marches on.

It's the hypocrisy of it all.

That's all.

 

[Head Linesman]

They should of moved
On and played the game the next day.

The virtue signaling is blinding from the NFL players right now.

You choose your profession. People die everyday unfortunately at job sites all across America. Regular folks don’t get time off, regular folks don’t get some made up pension when they suffer debilitating injuries.

These Leftist clowns continue to ruin society

Hear Hear!

well put.

 

[adselder09]

For the most part I think this incident brought out the best in humanity. How many kids were wanting to watch a football game Monday night but now may one day want to become an EMT or doctor? America got to see the training staff work for over 20 minutes trying to save Hamlin’s life. Those who are spiritual probably appreciate and practice their spirituality better now than what they did Monday afternoon. The outpouring of well wishes and donations to Hamlin’s toy drive were a great thing to see.

Well said.

 

[Head Linesman]

Those of you saying "The schools should pay for injuries" seem to forget who is paying for the schools. Does the money magically appear for the schools? No, it comes from YOU, the taxpayer.

So yeah, if you would like to maybe double your taxes, then sure, the high school can pay for Billy's knee surgery he needed thanks to playing soccer or lacrosse.

well no, the schools should not be involved in creating the injuries is the point.

maybe the booster clubs should pay some of that overhead. you know the guys owning the businesses that are feeding off the unpaid child labor.

the parents should have to take special medical policies to cover the extra injuries, since the parents are the ones hoping to benefit if johnny gets a full ride to a D1 school.

no the schools shouldnt be involved in serving as the entry level training and recruiting organizations for the NFL. The NFL should fund their own minor leagues such as in English Premiere League along with FA of England. EPPP Elite Player Performance Plan

Education system shouldn't be the minor leagues for NFL but that's what they are. Farm Clubs paid for by the taxpayers.

 

[Omar]

The way I see it is this the equivalent of a Pitcher taking a line drive to the head.

 

[zeeman]

The way I see it is this the equivalent of a Pitcher taking a line drive to the head.

Did the pitchers heart stop? For you to get hit in the head with a baseball it would have to be a ground ball

 

[Omar]

Did the pitchers heart stop? For you to get hit in the head with a baseball it would have to be a ground ball

The point is it’s a rare violent occurrence within the course of the game.

 

[14Red]

well, there is a known additional risk of injury playing full contact tackle football, a player representative commenting on the case a few nights ago said that the injury rate in the NFL is 100% meaning that 100% of players get injured at some point in time to varying degrees. Just as a school could not sponsor a motorcycle trick team due to definite high risk of injury and death, the same applies to playing full contact tackle football although the death rate is lower at least by immediate collisional causation the death rate is lower, but the bodily injury requiring medical intervention of some kind might be higher.

playing full contact tackle football ****could**** actually be banned as a hazardous occupation under Ohio child labor law, as "hazardous or detrimental to the health and well being of minors", and the fact is that a minor male is incapable of making a fully rational decision to take up the sport at the tender age of 6 ---- and ---- if playing full contact tackle football in the National Football League is considered to be "labor" or an "occupation" and is covered under the NLRB as a job or occupation, any participant who performs essentially the same job tasks, (which all participants do), are partaking in the same occupation, the only difference being that the minor male 6 year old isn't getting paid, but is participating in anticipation of future fame, riches and NIL income. all little kids think they have the potential to be NFL stars, and that's what they think they are preparing for, otherwise they could not be enticed to go to all the practices, workouts and endure all the pain that comes with playing the game. in my opinion.
View attachment 37940

That being said, the hazards and risks are arguably offset by the parade of wonderfuls often cited as the reason such hazardous activities are being sponsored and promoted in the education system, including cultural benefits of participating in the "greatest experience in American culture" as one poster here on Yappi put it. I guess motorcycle racing or sky diving, while both would provide a much more exhilarating personal experience (which is one of the major benefits cited by Yappi posters as the central value to an OHSAA "title" being the "mental prize" .... the mental prize of jumping out of a plane and surviving free fall and landing would be high on anybody's list of exhilarating adrenaline generating activity, and would promote all sorts of educational values and benefits such as full contact tackle football is said to instill in participants.... (you know the old Vince Lombardi stuff such as winners never quit and quitters never win and all that rubbish... winning isn't everything its the only thing blah blah blah.... (in skydiving winning IS everything AND the only thing...LOL) ...for some reason schools don't sponsor motorcycle racing or skydiving teams and I just cannot figure out why not, given that all the medical costs and liabilities would be transferred back to the parents when the kid's broken body is handed back to them, just like it is in full contact tackle football which has a HIGH probability of serious injury associated with it.

So maybe you can tell me why there isn't an interscholastic motorcycle racing competition sponsored by the OHSAA. It would promote mechanical competence, motoring safety, competition, team values, all kinds of wonderfuls.

why don't we sponsor skateboard teams, snowboard teams, etc? Why don't we have interscholastic MMA competitions?

We like our interpersonal violence and intent to injure the opponent to be a little more indirect and disguised by the object of scoring a goal and points with a ball instead of direct punching and kicking? I see.

"The happiest day of my life was the day I broke the 5th cervical vertebra of a wide receiver with a great hit, and it was in PRACTICE and the receiver was my own team mate" a direct quote from a highly successful football coach who played at Marshall University and was later a defensive coordinator in the NFL.

Nothing like lawyers getting involved, eh? You bring up a TON of great points and we are ever evolving. Many of the things you state in here scare the crap out of me because there is always someone in the bunch would may take you up on some of this stuff. It's like the old pledge of allegiance in schools, it was banned because someone complained. IMO, I think those things really start to breakdown the appeal and joy of being an American. One of our main issues is we lack personal pride in our country because kids are now only told how bad things are, and not told how good we have it.
But I digress. Your question about motorcycle racing in schools is pretty simple, not popular enough and way too costly. Schools have limited budgets for sports, and school boards have to weigh the student interest and cost of transportation, paying coaches, etc. The OHSAA tries to have as many "team" sports as possible. The most recent being bowling.

 

[14Red]

Nothing like lawyers getting involved, eh? You bring up a TON of great points and we are ever evolving. Many of the things you state in here scare the crap out of me because there is always someone in the bunch would may take you up on some of this stuff. It's like the old pledge of allegiance in schools, it was banned because someone complained. IMO, I think those things really start to breakdown the appeal and joy of being an American. One of our main issues is we lack personal pride in our country because kids are now only told how bad things are, and not told how good we have it.
But I digress. Your question about motorcycle racing in schools is pretty simple, not popular enough and way too costly. Schools have limited budgets for sports, and school boards have to weigh the student interest and cost of transportation, paying coaches, etc. The OHSAA tries to have as many "team" sports as possible. The most recent being bowling.

And percentage wise, the highest percentage of concussions for high school student athletes come from.... drum roll... girls soccer. We NEVER hear about any safety protochols in soccer and they have more concussions ( comparative) than football.

 

[Head Linesman]

Nothing like lawyers getting involved, eh? You bring up a TON of great points and we are ever evolving. Many of the things you state in here scare the crap out of me because there is always someone in the bunch would may take you up on some of this stuff. It's like the old pledge of allegiance in schools, it was banned because someone complained. IMO, I think those things really start to breakdown the appeal and joy of being an American. One of our main issues is we lack personal pride in our country because kids are now only told how bad things are, and not told how good we have it.
But I digress. Your question about motorcycle racing in schools is pretty simple, not popular enough and way too costly. Schools have limited budgets for sports, and school boards have to weigh the student interest and cost of transportation, paying coaches, etc. The OHSAA tries to have as many "team" sports as possible. The most recent being bowling.

I fully expect and predict that at some time in the future, high schools will no longer be serving as the minor leagues for the NFL and the NFL will be forced to fund its own player recruitment and development organizations.

Parents will still be able to put their kids in those leagues, but school systems won't be burdened with the duty.

for phys ed, they will institute intra murals.

 

[Head Linesman]

And percentage wise, the highest percentage of concussions for high school student athletes come from.... drum roll... girls soccer. We NEVER hear about any safety protochols in soccer and they have more concussions ( comparative) than football.

i would view this as more accurate reporting than actual quantities of concussions. but that's just my cynical side expressing itself.

 

[14Red]

I fully expect and predict that at some time in the future, high schools will no longer be serving as the minor leagues for the NFL and the NFL will be forced to fund its own player recruitment and development organizations.

Parents will still be able to put their kids in those leagues, but school systems won't be burdened with the duty.

for phys ed, they will institute intra murals.

I don't view it at all as a burden. Schools HAVE extracurricular activities to keep kids engaged and school interesting. Was sports a carrot for me to go to school...absolutely, guilty as charged. Do kids keep their grades up to a certain level to participate, absolutely.
If schools didn't have sports or other extracurricular activities, we'd see alot more discipline and behavioral problems.

 

[14Red]

i would view this as more accurate reporting than actual quantities of concussions. but that's just my cynical side expressing itself.

Studies have shown that in females, the weaker neck muscles are a key contributor to concussions. You get to the elite levels and high school, those kicks are hard and to head the ball that's coming at 40-50 MPH is a cause (and continuous in some cases).