The Official 2018 Cincinnati Reds Thread

wolves82

Well-known member
Should the Reds consider a trade of bad contracts? Tyler Chatwood is terrible with a 5.3 ERA and an atrocious WHIP of 1.8 At age 28 and owed 25.5M over 2 seasons. A trade of Homer Bailey for Chatwood might make sense for both clubs.

Cubs point of view: Both suck equally as bad but Bailey is under contract for 1 year. They can afford the extra 12.5M next season in order to save it in 2020. That might be enough to cover Bryant's arbitration raise in 2020. Also the luxury tax penalty will be 20%in 2020 as opposed to 10% next season. That's another $1.35M savings.

Reds point of view: It would free up an additional $12.5M for 2019 but reduce 2020 by 13M. Any other FA acquisition contracts could be structured with that in mind.

This type of "bad contract swap" might be beneficial for the Reds and the Cubs.

Your thoughts?
Very interesting idea, and I like it from Reds perspective. But it seems unlikely to occur. Too "out of the box" for Reds mgmt.

Stuff like this has happened in hockey. In 2015 Columbus traded Nathan Horton to Toronto for David Clarkson. Both had back injuries and little chance of ever playing again. Columbus took Clarkson's contract (fewer years, higher $ per year) to get out from under Horton's (more years, lower per year, more salary cap hit down the road). Toronto was in 'win now' mode and wanted some cap room that year. Very interesting and good move by my Blue Jackets.
 

14Red

New member
Very interesting idea, and I like it from Reds perspective. But it seems unlikely to occur. Too "out of the box" for Reds mgmt.

Stuff like this has happened in hockey. In 2015 Columbus traded Nathan Horton to Toronto for David Clarkson. Both had back injuries and little chance of ever playing again. Columbus took Clarkson's contract (fewer years, higher $ per year) to get out from under Horton's (more years, lower per year, more salary cap hit down the road). Toronto was in 'win now' mode and wanted some cap room that year. Very interesting and good move by my Blue Jackets.
Two wrongs make a right? Nah. My guess is Bailey comes into spring training, unless he's injured or has a horrible spring, he'll be in the rotation. You guys will go bonkers and we'll see how the first couple of months go. Bailey would be the #5 starter at best, so it's nothing to continue to lose sleep over. Our fortunes will be if we can get one or two decent starters over the off season to go with Castillo and DeSclafani. Castillo will be your opening day starter.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
Two wrongs make a right? Nah. My guess is Bailey comes into spring training, unless he's injured or has a horrible spring, he'll be in the rotation. You guys will go bonkers and we'll see how the first couple of months go. Bailey would be the #5 starter at best, so it's nothing to continue to lose sleep over. Our fortunes will be if we can get one or two decent starters over the off season to go with Castillo and DeSclafani. Castillo will be your opening day starter.
Everyone expects Bailey to come to spring training and be in the rotation. It’s hilarious you think everyone doesn’t expect it. Of course he sucks and shouldn’t be a Red next season. :shrug:
 

14Red

New member
Everyone expects Bailey to come to spring training and be in the rotation. It’s hilarious you think everyone doesn’t expect it. Of course he sucks and shouldn’t be a Red next season. :shrug:
Um EP, about 95% of anyone on here would have cut him months ago, of course it's not their money so that decision is easy for them.
I don't know of anyone else who's said he'd be in the rotation in '19 than me. But apparently you do.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
Um EP, about 95% of anyone on here would have cut him months ago, of course it's not their money so that decision is easy for them.
I don't know of anyone else who's said he'd be in the rotation in '19 than me. But apparently you do.
There is a difference between wanting him gone and expecting him gone.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Very interesting idea, and I like it from Reds perspective. But it seems unlikely to occur. Too "out of the box" for Reds mgmt.

Stuff like this has happened in hockey. In 2015 Columbus traded Nathan Horton to Toronto for David Clarkson. Both had back injuries and little chance of ever playing again. Columbus took Clarkson's contract (fewer years, higher $ per year) to get out from under Horton's (more years, lower per year, more salary cap hit down the road). Toronto was in 'win now' mode and wanted some cap room that year. Very interesting and good move by my Blue Jackets.

Two wrongs make a right? Nah. My guess is Bailey comes into spring training, unless he's injured or has a horrible spring, he'll be in the rotation. You guys will go bonkers and we'll see how the first couple of months go. Bailey would be the #5 starter at best, so it's nothing to continue to lose sleep over. Our fortunes will be if we can get one or two decent starters over the off season to go with Castillo and DeSclafani. Castillo will be your opening day starter.
We all realize creative thinking is not your strong suit, so I will explain again. In my hockey example, Toronto and Columbus both were stuck with horrible contracts due to permanent injuries. But the contracts were different.

Toronto wanted to dump a contract that was like $9M per year for 2 seasons. They wanted to spend money right now to add players. Columbus wanted to dump a contract that was like $5M year 1, $6M year 2, etc for like 5 years. They wanted to get the contract off the books so that in year 3-4-5 they could spend the money on some of their young stars that would become free agents.

So two wrongs did make a right. Toronto saved $4M per year for 2 years and spent immediately on FA. Columbus ate the extra money for 2 years and was able to pay their young stars and keep them in years 3-4-5. Win Win.

indiandad suggests that this could possibly make sense in baseball situations also, and I agree. Open your mind, for once.

As for the rotation next year, who WILL be in the rotation is very different than who SHOULD be in the rotation. We post about who SHOULD be. We all know Bailey probably will be. Sadly.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Um EP, about 95% of anyone on here would have cut him months ago, of course it's not their money so that decision is easy for them.
I don't know of anyone else who's said he'd be in the rotation in '19 than me. But apparently you do.
If 14Red or Reds management is in charge:
"I'm spending my $20M on you either way, so instead of you just sitting there, I want you to get out there and go 1-17 again, and hurt the team. That way we get our moneys' worth!"

If any sane person is in charge:
"I'm spending my $20M on you either way, that money is wasted. So instead of being the worst starter in the MLB, just go home. We have no way to get our moneys' worth, so we won;t let you ruin our season and our young players with your crappy selfish attitude."
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
Um EP, about 95% of anyone on here would have cut him months ago, of course it's not their money so that decision is easy for them.
I don't know of anyone else who's said he'd be in the rotation in '19 than me. But apparently you do.
Well, you’re a fool. Everyone on this board expects Bailey to be in the 2019 rotation. Only you think he’s earned that right.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
at least in this past offseason they showed the biggest FA pitcher signings all all of the top, but 1, was a bust so it isn't a sure thing.

HB will likely be in the opening day rotation. He will pitch well in ST because he knows what to do and we will have high hopes for him.

He cannot be any worse than last year and I expect him to be a .500 with a 4.40 ERA this year which for a 4-5 starter that wont be bad
 

wolves82

Well-known member
at least in this past offseason they showed the biggest FA pitcher signings all all of the top, but 1, was a bust so it isn't a sure thing.

HB will likely be in the opening day rotation. He will pitch well in ST because he knows what to do and we will have high hopes for him.

He cannot be any worse than last year and I expect him to be a .500 with a 4.40 ERA this year which for a 4-5 starter that wont be bad
I'm sure you are right that HB will be in the rotation, barring some accident or injury.

But "expecting" a .500 record with 4.40 ERA is wild optimism, it is like believing in Santa Clause. The last time his ERA was under 5.50 was in 2014.

Could it happen. possibly. But expecting it is simply not based in reality.
 

14Red

New member
We all realize creative thinking is not your strong suit, so I will explain again. In my hockey example, Toronto and Columbus both were stuck with horrible contracts due to permanent injuries. But the contracts were different.

Toronto wanted to dump a contract that was like $9M per year for 2 seasons. They wanted to spend money right now to add players. Columbus wanted to dump a contract that was like $5M year 1, $6M year 2, etc for like 5 years. They wanted to get the contract off the books so that in year 3-4-5 they could spend the money on some of their young stars that would become free agents.

So two wrongs did make a right. Toronto saved $4M per year for 2 years and spent immediately on FA. Columbus ate the extra money for 2 years and was able to pay their young stars and keep them in years 3-4-5. Win Win.

indiandad suggests that this could possibly make sense in baseball situations also, and I agree. Open your mind, for once.

As for the rotation next year, who WILL be in the rotation is very different than who SHOULD be in the rotation. We post about who SHOULD be. We all know Bailey probably will be. Sadly.
That's strange, shouldn't we deal more in reality? I'd like Bryce Harper to be in right field for the Reds next year, but I know that's not happening.

What it the heck does a hockey example have to do with baseball?? :shrug:
 

14Red

New member
If 14Red or Reds management is in charge:
"I'm spending my $20M on you either way, so instead of you just sitting there, I want you to get out there and go 1-17 again, and hurt the team. That way we get our moneys' worth!"

If any sane person is in charge:
"I'm spending my $20M on you either way, that money is wasted. So instead of being the worst starter in the MLB, just go home. We have no way to get our moneys' worth, so we won;t let you ruin our season and our young players with your crappy selfish attitude."
Last I checked, wolves82 doesn't sign checks for the Reds. If it was your money, you'd think alot differently, believe me.
 

Monclova Steve

Well-known member
That's strange, shouldn't we deal more in reality? I'd like Bryce Harper to be in right field for the Reds next year, but I know that's not happening.

What it the heck does a hockey example have to do with baseball?? :shrug:
wolves82's post about the contracts isn't hard to understand at all.

He even explained it in very simple language to you. The fact that you still don't get it says more about you than anything else.
 

Monclova Steve

Well-known member
Last I checked, wolves82 doesn't sign checks for the Reds. If it was your money, you'd think alot differently, believe me.
Your post makes no sense whatsoever. The Reds are going to have to sign a check to him whether he pitches or not. His past performance CLEARLY indicates that he is a pitcher whose BEST ERA in the past 3 years is 6.09: and BEST WHIP in the past 3 years is 1.636; and W/L record (least important) last year was 1-14.

So why would wolves82 "think differently" if it was his money? Again......the Reds have to pay him whether he pitches or not.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
That's strange, shouldn't we deal more in reality? I'd like Bryce Harper to be in right field for the Reds next year, but I know that's not happening.

What it the heck does a hockey example have to do with baseball?? :shrug:
It's a legitimate proposition if for no other reason than the Braves and Dodgers pulled off a similar style bad contract swap last offseason.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
Another trade scenario....

Paul Goldschmidt to the Mets.
Jacob degrom and cash to the Reds.
Shed Long to the Mets.
Nick Longhi and Cody Reed to the Diamondbacks.
 

Arrogate

Well-known member
Id rather play around with indians hypothetical trades than listen to 14reds obsession with Homer and Billy. It is the off season for a 67 win team, what else is there to talk about :laugh:
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Last I checked, wolves82 doesn't sign checks for the Reds. If it was your money, you'd think alot differently, believe me.
No I wouldn't!! Is there any way for me to recover Homer's salary? NO.

So I make the best decision for going forward, which is keeping him off the mound and away from my young players. His BS about not wanting to pitch relief this past season is the last straw. Just send him home.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
That's strange, shouldn't we deal more in reality? I'd like Bryce Harper to be in right field for the Reds next year, but I know that's not happening.

What it the heck does a hockey example have to do with baseball?? :shrug:
you are so dense. It is an example about how 2 bad contracts can be traded for mutual benefit. I even used small words. Moron.
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
It's baffling that 14Red can't understand that major league experience is a resource just like money is.
 

Arrogate

Well-known member
Do people really think he is serious? I mean he has to be a fake account. To have so many bad takes across so many different topics is almost an art form.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Apparently the final 3 in the running for Mgr:

Girardi
Ausmas
David Bell

I can’t fathom how you don’t offer Girardi if he actually wants the job.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
Apparently the final 3 in the running for Mgr:

Girardi
Ausmas
David Bell

I can’t fathom how you don’t offer Girardi if he actually wants the job.
I called Girardi a year ago. I was ridiculed by the board and told there was no way.

If the Reds want to attract big name FA's they need a big name manager.
 
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