The Last Dance on ESPN

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I was interested in his details on studying shots and the rebounds. I remember my 7th grade coach tell us that 75% of the boards went to the other side, one reason why I averaged a double double and knowing where to go for the rebounds!

I always contended, and still do, that many NBA players could have done what Rodman was doing if they just focused on rebounding and defense. What did they show, 7 times he had 20 boards and no points?

Dont get me wrong, what he did was amazing, but I still think if some other talented players had a sole focus on boards and defense and not anything about scoring a lot of people could do it. I remember watching him, you didnt have to defend against him at all. He didnt even look at the hoop when he got the ball often.

Great energy and desire, no doubt but man he was weird as F.
Listening to him talk about shot rotation and where and how the ball hit the rim sounded to me like Jerry Lucas from way back in the day. Totally different eras and people, but very thought out as to making the skill of rebounding a science.

Rodman mastered doing the basic things with uncommon tenacity and desire. Absolutely relentless.

I don't know if the dude would have survived with today's social media and instant news. The mid-season Vegas bender with Carmen Electra would have broken the internet.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
I’d like to see LeBron go up against those Pistons teams. He would’ve been having a meltdown after game 1. Jordan is the Greatest ever, it shouldn’t even be a discussion
Sigh. Another lame attempt to superimpose players into different eras. It just can't be translated. I could say that if MJ played in the modern era, guys like Kawhi, Draymond and LeBron would defend him better than anyone else in his own era. They are just so much more athletic at their size. But I'm not silly enough to try to compare eras.

If LeBron had all of his same physical gifts, and he had been raised in that era, he would have understood how the games were being called back then. Thinking he wouldn't adapt is foolish. Thinking he wouldn't use his size/strength/speed against thugs is even more foolish. LeBron is stronger than Laimbeer or Mahorn and as fast as Rodman or Pippen. Anybody messing with him would have had a problem on their hands.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
I’d like to see LeBron go up against those Pistons teams. He would’ve been having a meltdown after game 1. Jordan is the Greatest ever, it shouldn’t even be a discussion
I think Jordan is the goat as well, but it’s mostly due to his competitive streak. I don’t think Lebron could match his intensity on a daily basis. It’s also why I’d consider Kobe over LeBron as well. Having said that, I think Lebron is more physically gifted than any player in NBA history.
 

Red14

Well-known member
Havent watched but let me know when they get into his fathers death and checks written by his wife being found in a murdered bookies house. That's what I am here for
It will be very interesting to see the next two programs and how these things are addressed.
 

Omar

Well-known member
I think Jordan is the goat as well, but it’s mostly due to his competitive streak. I don’t think Lebron could match his intensity on a daily basis. It’s also why I’d consider Kobe over LeBron as well. Having said that, I think Lebron is more physically gifted than any player in NBA history.
I won’t argue LeBron being more physically gifted. Kobe is probably the closest in terms of competitiveness with Jordan, but I don’t think Jordan would ever force Pippen out of Chicago like Kobe did to Shaq.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I won’t argue LeBron being more physically gifted. Kobe is probably the closest in terms of competitiveness with Jordan, but I don’t think Jordan would ever force Pippen out of Chicago like Kobe did to Shaq.
Also, it didnt seem like Jordan is a coach killer like LeBron. He was devastated when they got rid of Collins.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
Jordan's comments of Isaiah Thomas's explanation of the Pistons walking off the floor when they were beaten by the Bulls were the highlight of the series thus far-

"You can show me anything you want. No way you can convince me he wasn't an assh--e."
 

Red14

Well-known member
Also, it didnt seem like Jordan is a coach killer like LeBron. He was devastated when they got rid of Collins.
With Jordan, it was clear he was a player, not the king. LeBron was given too much control in Cleveland. Michael didn't like Krauss, but Krauss was still in charge, Reinsdorf had control of that team.
However, moving on from Collins may had been Krauss's best move. I"m not sure they win any titles if they continue with Collins, who was like most coaches and just gave way to his best player. I've often said LeBron would have more titles if he'd get out of his own way and let coaches coach. His first two titles with the Heat, he was just a player. Riley sat on him when he wanted to get Spolestra fired. Wade and Bosh was the perfect teammates for LeBron in Miami. Wade already won and wasn't at the top of his game, and Bosh was a good 2nd/ 3rd option. And don't forget Ray Allen bailed him out or he only has two titles.
 

Red14

Well-known member
I won’t argue LeBron being more physically gifted. Kobe is probably the closest in terms of competitiveness with Jordan, but I don’t think Jordan would ever force Pippen out of Chicago like Kobe did to Shaq.
Shaq forced himself out. I think we'll see over time Shaq will really regret that he didn't work harder. He was so great, but he could had been so much better. He was more interested in having fun.
 

Red14

Well-known member
He and Barkley are up nights wondering what could have been...
Karl Malone, John Stockton, Gary Payton, Sean Kemp, Dom Wilkins, Patrick Ewing, Mark Jackson, we could come up with an all-star team of guys who Jordan kept rings from.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
Karl Malone, John Stockton, Gary Payton, Sean Kemp, Dom Wilkins, Patrick Ewing, Mark Jackson, we could come up with an all-star team of guys who Jordan kept rings from.
It's a long list, many of which are hall of famers.

Watching the other night I thought of a story involving Larry Bird and Dominique Wilkins. Larry was told by someone that the Hawks were honoring Wilkins with a statue to which he responded "I'm pretty sure it's not made in a defensive stance." LOL. Old rivalries!
 

Red14

Well-known member
It's a long list, many of which are hall of famers.

Watching the other night I thought of a story involving Larry Bird and Dominique Wilkins. Larry was told by someone that the Hawks were honoring Wilkins with a statue to which he responded "I'm pretty sure it's not made in a defensive stance." LOL. Old rivalries!
Now that's funny!! And really up until Jordan, most NBA superstars didn't play defense. Bird certainly didn't have much room to talk with Wilkins. Jordan is probably as much the GOAT because he was one of the best defensive players in the league as well as offense. You take those last few years with the Bulls, Jordan, Pippin and Rodman on the same team, three top flight defenders?? Pippin and Rodman could guard 1-5, so this was one of the first hint's of position less basketball.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
Karl Malone, John Stockton, Gary Payton, Sean Kemp, Dom Wilkins, Patrick Ewing, Mark Jackson, we could come up with an all-star team of guys who Jordan kept rings from.
Mark Jackson? Lolz Surprised you’d admire Kemp and Wilkins games. Both were more flash than substance.
 

Red14

Well-known member
Mark Jackson? Lolz Surprised you’d admire Kemp and Wilkins games. Both were more flash than substance.
Yes, Jackson was a stretch, a point guard who could not shoot. He'd not even play D1 college basketball today. I'll respectively disagree on Kemp and Wilkins. They were both top 10 players of their time. Kemp was a manchild, loved watchign him play. Wilkins was a scoring machine. Again, they played in a time when there were just better teams and kept them from winning titles.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
Yes, Jackson was a stretch, a point guard who could not shoot. He'd not even play D1 college basketball today. I'll respectively disagree on Kemp and Wilkins. They were both top 10 players of their time. Kemp was a manchild, loved watchign him play. Wilkins was a scoring machine. Again, they played in a time when there were just better teams and kept them from winning titles.
Yet neither made the top 50 player list made in 1997 during or right after their prime. They were certainly skilled players, but neither were what I’d call fierce competitors.
 

Red14

Well-known member
Yet neither made the top 50 player list made in 1997 during or right after their prime. They were certainly skilled players, but neither were what I’d call fierce competitors.
Top 50 of all time is quite an accomplishment. Wilkins averaged under 25 PPG for his career, 46% shooter, 81% FT%, 9 time all star,

Kemp was a career 15 PPG, but the last 3 seasons really hurt him, he probalby was closer to 18PPG, 9 RPG, 48% FG and played on alot of really good teams in Seattle. 6 time all star
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
Kemp was not well rounded (other than physically at the end). At some point, Wilkins developed a reasonable shot. He was also disciplined enough to have a lengthy career unlike Kemp. Kemp had habits that were not conducive to personal or athletic development.

Jackson was a distributor, not a shooter. I won a lot of fantasy basketball with him and Micheal Williams at guard they did well in stats other than just points.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
I've had enough of the Isaiah Thomas "woe is me" tour. He was always a phony little puke. I was especially moved by his statement about how the Pistons were upset when they were characterized as thugs, especially when they promoted it and benefited from it. I also can't see the injustice of him not making a team that had Magic and Stockton at point guard.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
I've had enough of the Isaiah Thomas "woe is me" tour. He was always a phony little puke. I was especially moved by his statement about how the Pistons were upset when they were characterized as thugs, especially when they promoted it and benefited from it. I also can't see the injustice of him not making a team that had Magic and Stockton at point guard.
No kidding! I still have an NBA licensed "Motor City Bad Boys" black baseball cap with the Pistons logo. They basked in the glow of their bad boy image.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
Kemp was not well rounded (other than physically at the end). At some point, Wilkins developed a reasonable shot. He was also disciplined enough to have a lengthy career unlike Kemp. Kemp had habits that were not conducive to personal or athletic development.

Jackson was a distributor, not a shooter. I won a lot of fantasy basketball with him and Micheal Williams at guard they did well in stats other than just points.
All 3 were very good players, I just hold Price and Miller in more regard as I felt like they were better players and much more competitive. Wilkins was extremely gifted, but was a flashy player who never carried his team beyond general competitiveness. Kemp could have been great, but definitely gave way to sloth at some point. I just felt it was ironic to name them as they are the kind of players 14red usually denigrates on here in the nba’s modern era.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
2 more great eps last night.

I didnt know the stuff on the political side. Can you imagine if that was done/said today I think the media would go nuts, but many folks would not really care, but ESPN would try to make everyone care!

Personally, I don't care to have athletes in the political field. We watch sports to get away from real life, and just hate it when the co-mingle.

..and vice versa.....
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
The security guard with the blonde perm mullet was the star of last night's episodes. Hustled Michael Jordan playing quarters. Incredible.
 

Red14

Well-known member
Sigh. Another lame attempt to superimpose players into different eras. It just can't be translated. I could say that if MJ played in the modern era, guys like Kawhi, Draymond and LeBron would defend him better than anyone else in his own era. They are just so much more athletic at their size. But I'm not silly enough to try to compare eras.

If LeBron had all of his same physical gifts, and he had been raised in that era, he would have understood how the games were being called back then. Thinking he wouldn't adapt is foolish. Thinking he wouldn't use his size/strength/speed against thugs is even more foolish. LeBron is stronger than Laimbeer or Mahorn and as fast as Rodman or Pippen. Anybody messing with him would have had a problem on their hands.
I think LeBron, unless he'd been in a completely different mindset, would really had struggled in past generations. Today's NBA is a players game, more than ever. At least in the 80's and 90's there was some resemblance of coaching and listening to coaching and getting along with teammates. LeBron's biggest flaw is he has to micromanage everything. He does not accept coaching. I truly feel he may have had 2-3 more titles by now if he just was a player.
 
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