The Last Dance on ESPN

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
Episodes 1 and 2 of this highly anticipated series was aired last night. I watched he first episode and will watch the second today. Pretty good so far.

The only thing that surprised me was that Michael Jordan had to write home for money as a freshman at North Carolina. I always assumed they paid better.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Pretty good so far. The first two episodes almost lead me to believe that they waited for Jerry Krause to die before putting this project together. Much of the old footage in the first two episodes is just a montage of Krause looking like a self-important clown and continuously getting verbally dunked on by the players, especially Jordan.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I am not sure why this year they decided to green light this. It was supposed to come out in think mid june, after the NBA season.

Speculated that maybe Jordan said now is the time because, well, some noobs believing James is the GOAT.

WIth that said, I was stoked to see this and so far it hasnt disappointed.
JOrdan saying recently that he fears many will think he is a jerk because of how he treated some players. I think many of us who grew up in that era knew how demanding he was of his teammates and wont be phased by it. To reach that level of success you need to hold teammates up to those same standards.

In addition to his amazing talent, drive and determination you can just see he had another aspect of life that you cannot teach, or learn.

Charisma.

That smile, how he spoke really upped his value to many. Many forget just how charismatic he was. The only player I can think of who even came that close was Shaq.

When you hear JOrdan speak, his smile, how he conducted himself, and then they cut to Pippen, and this is a lesson to many folks, that how you carry yourself and being charismatic is very important in how you are portrayed. We see it in every day life actually.


In regards to Pippen........who was his agent? Sounds like his agent was piss poor to never get him a better deal!!!!!!!!!!
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Bad timing on signing that long-term deal as revenues skyrocketed shortly after in conjunction with having to deal with the Jerrys (Krause and Reinsdorf) running the show.

Pippen still ended up earning very good money after leaving the Bulls, and he ended up making more as a player than Jordan. Roughly 70% of Jordan's NBA earnings where made during his last two years with the Bulls. Relative to his value to the Bulls and to the NBA, Jordan spent nearly his whole career comparatively making peanuts.
 
The memories, I was a huge NBA fan back in the 70s,80s and early 90s. I really don’t pay any attention to it now until playoffs. I will say MJ was and is the GOAT
 

wolves82

Well-known member
The Jordan vs. LeBron GOAT discussion is so tired. And unproveable. Can't we just appreciate that both were/are the best of their generation? I feel lucky to have watched both.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I think in the next pair of episodes it is going to become more evident to some that it is very difficult to compare players from eras that had different rules (or interpretations thereof) and styles of play. The NBA of the Jordan era was a very different game than the NBA of today.
 

mcm.1019

Active member
Such a different era. The style of play...management still ran the show...you could demand effort from your teammates. I enjoyed it alot, and it's fun to watch with my boys (who are ages 18-23).
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I always get a kick out of watching the old stuff (Jordan in college) where there is no 3 point line!
 

Red14

Well-known member
Fantastic shows. Certainly this is written from the players view and Jerry Krauss is portrayed as the villain. It's unfortunate because he put a team together that won 6 titles and will likely never be matched. And let's face it, GM's are there to look out for the greater good. That last Bulls championship team was on fumes and it was clear that was it, no matter what. Who knows, if they were able to trade some pieces and put some other players around MJ, maybe they win a few more titles.
Scottie Pippin really didn't change much. He was surly and pouty as a player and the spots he was interviewed last night that didn't change. I think it's funny Reinsdorf mentioned more than once that he told Pippin this may not be a great contract for him, he should had taken less years and bet on himself. I just want a player who doesn't play up to the contract sometime to give money back??? I guess Andrew Luck did that.
Looking forward to the next several Sundays.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Krause certainly deserves credit for assembling that team, but IMO he rightly deserves blame for prematurely concluding that it was time to blow it up going into a year where the team won 62 regular season games and their third straight title.

The window was closing, but looking at what some of those guys did in the following years elsewhere (often for good teams) they could have been a legitimate contender for 1-2 more years. Sometimes you riding the wave is better than searching for the next thing, especially when you currently have Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
That point is particularly unnerving. Perhaps Phil Jackson is an enormous egotistical jerk behind closed doors, but you yourself have to be an egotistical idiot to convince yourself that you need to move on from the guy that's coached you to five championships in seven years (and inevitably six in eight).

Phil Jackson was blessed with the best talent that anyone could ever hope to coach in Chicago and LA, but the Zen Master did as well as probably any coach in the history of professional sports at managing big egos and personalities and maximizing them into a cohesive unit.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
Old Phil also had the advantage of having Tex Winter on staff. As much as people give Jackson credit foe the triangle offense, Tex Winter was the true innovator of it.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
That point is particularly unnerving. Perhaps Phil Jackson is an enormous egotistical jerk behind closed doors, but you yourself have to be an egotistical idiot to convince yourself that you need to move on from the guy that's coached you to five championships in seven years (and inevitably six in eight).

Phil Jackson was blessed with the best talent that anyone could ever hope to coach in Chicago and LA, but the Zen Master did as well as probably any coach in the history of professional sports at managing big egos and personalities and maximizing them into a cohesive unit.
One thinks it is easy to coach a team of great talent, but we have seen through the years that egos topple many a great run.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
Some sports blog has analyzed Jordan's on screen comments in relation to the amount of liquid in the glass next to him-


As I mentioned above, his eyes are messed up. They are clearly red and glassy during many of the interviews.
 

Arrogate

Well-known member
Havent watched but let me know when they get into his fathers death and checks written by his wife being found in a murdered bookies house. That's what I am here for
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Some sports blog has analyzed Jordan's on screen comments in relation to the amount of liquid in the glass next to him-


As I mentioned above, his eyes are messed up. They are clearly red and glassy during many of the interviews.
To be quite honest, I am more interested in what was being said at the time than what any player/coach will say now.

I.E. the comments from Bird, Magic, Bobby Knight, etc from back in the day.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
Some sports blog has analyzed Jordan's on screen comments in relation to the amount of liquid in the glass next to him-


As I mentioned above, his eyes are messed up. They are clearly red and glassy during many of the interviews.
There has been on-going speculation for a couple years now in some sports social media circles that Michael Jordan has some alcoholism issues. 1587490978161.png
 

The Dock

Well-known member
I am not sure why this year they decided to green light this. It was supposed to come out in think mid june, after the NBA season.

Speculated that maybe Jordan said now is the time because, well, some noobs believing James is the GOAT.

WIth that said, I was stoked to see this and so far it hasnt disappointed.
JOrdan saying recently that he fears many will think he is a jerk because of how he treated some players. I think many of us who grew up in that era knew how demanding he was of his teammates and wont be phased by it. To reach that level of success you need to hold teammates up to those same standards.

In addition to his amazing talent, drive and determination you can just see he had another aspect of life that you cannot teach, or learn.

Charisma.

That smile, how he spoke really upped his value to many. Many forget just how charismatic he was. The only player I can think of who even came that close was Shaq.

When you hear JOrdan speak, his smile, how he conducted himself, and then they cut to Pippen, and this is a lesson to many folks, that how you carry yourself and being charismatic is very important in how you are portrayed. We see it in every day life actually.


In regards to Pippen........who was his agent? Sounds like his agent was piss poor to never get him a better deal!!!!!!!!!!
I guess the thing to remember is Scottie was really worried if he got hurt then it would end his career and thus render him unable to provide for his family (parents and the paralyzed sibling.) By today's standards, we're thinking "what the hell...?" Draymond Green made an interesting point recently, though: "Two of the best dynasties in the NBA were made possible by bad contracts. Scottie Pippen and Steph Curry." And even though episode 2 sorta paints Pippen as a bad dude (rightly or wrongly), I don't think enough credit is given to him that his willingness to have taken such a bad deal indirectly helped the Bulls in some way.
 

Raymo

Well-known member
Some sports blog has analyzed Jordan's on screen comments in relation to the amount of liquid in the glass next to him-


As I mentioned above, his eyes are messed up. They are clearly red and glassy during many of the interviews.
Hard to watch him with those eyes,really a health problem in some way.
 

Omar

Well-known member
The memories, I was a huge NBA fan back in the 70s,80s and early 90s. I really don’t pay any attention to it now until playoffs. I will say MJ was and is the GOAT
The 90s NBA was fun. I loved the Bulls vs Jazz Finals and the Bulls v Pacers Eastern Conference Finals before that.

TBH, I lost interest after the ‘02 Western Conference Finals. I’m still pissed the NBA so brazenly screwed over the Kings.

Jordan was such a bad mother f’er, he hated everyone he played against. That’s part of what made him the greatest. Now, all these guys are buddies off the court and want to form super teams rather than leading on their own.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
The 90s NBA was fun. I loved the Bulls vs Jazz Finals and the Bulls v Pacers Eastern Conference Finals before that.

TBH, I lost interest after the ‘02 Western Conference Finals. I’m still pissed the NBA so brazenly screwed over the Kings.

Jordan was such a bad mother f’er, he hated everyone he played against. That’s part of what made him the greatest. Now, all these guys are buddies off the court and want to form super teams rather than leading on their own.
I'm not sure that's entirely true. He was golfing with Danny Ainge after all. I think it's safe to say he had no friends on the floor as far as opponents.
 

Omar

Well-known member
I'm not sure that's entirely true. He was golfing with Danny Ainge after all. I think it's safe to say he had no friends on the floor as far as opponents.
That’s what I meant. He wanted to take the head off every opponent. He could turn almost anything into a slight. Like if someone looked at him funny, he could psyche himself up to the point where it was one of the highest displays of disrespect possible. I’m not sure that works for everyone, but it clearly worked for him.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
That’s what I meant. He wanted to take the head off every opponent. He could turn almost anything into a slight. Like if someone looked at him funny, he could psyche himself up to the point where it was one of the highest displays of disrespect possible. I’m not sure that works for everyone, but it clearly worked for him.
His intention was certainly to beat Ainge and take his money!
 

Omar

Well-known member
His intention was certainly to beat Ainge and take his money!
It’s really a cool insight into what the mind is like of someone who is the absolute best in their field. He was so much better than everyone and but he found a ways to keep himself motivated and working harder than everyone else
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Another good set of episodes last night.
Anyone know what sort of ratings they are getting?
Absolutely has to be blasting whatever Sunday Night Baseball would have been pulling I would think.
 

Omar

Well-known member
I’d like to see LeBron go up against those Pistons teams. He would’ve been having a meltdown after game 1. Jordan is the Greatest ever, it shouldn’t even be a discussion
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
The old timers had to be getting off last night night to everyone talking about how they still hate the Pistons 30 years later.

Another great set of episodes. For as much as people think of Dennis Rodman as being bizarre, last night helped demonstrate the genius of Dennis Rodman as a rebounder and a defender. He was a brilliant thinker of the game and really maximized what he was physically gifted with. The shot of Rodman watching film with Phil Jackson may have been the best image of the series so far.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
The old timers had to be getting off last night night to everyone talking about how they still hate the Pistons 30 years later.

Another great set of episodes. For as much as people think of Dennis Rodman as being bizarre, last night helped demonstrate the genius of Dennis Rodman as a rebounder and a defender. He was a brilliant thinker of the game and really maximized what he was physically gifted with.
I was interested in his details on studying shots and the rebounds. I remember my 7th grade coach tell us that 75% of the boards went to the other side, one reason why I averaged a double double and knowing where to go for the rebounds!

I always contended, and still do, that many NBA players could have done what Rodman was doing if they just focused on rebounding and defense. What did they show, 7 times he had 20 boards and no points?

Dont get me wrong, what he did was amazing, but I still think if some other talented players had a sole focus on boards and defense and not anything about scoring a lot of people could do it. I remember watching him, you didnt have to defend against him at all. He didnt even look at the hoop when he got the ball often.

Great energy and desire, no doubt but man he was weird as F.
 
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