Shorten the season

CoachHoon said:
Interesting thought...what problem or issue does this alleviate or how does it make the sport better?
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Helps with the need for larger facilities and provides more available options, helps with the shortage of officials, table workers and volunteers that need coverage, fan friendly as we would see a more competitive and deeper field, simplifies logistics and housing needs, etc.....
 
Jim Behrens said:
Believe me, I am not disagreeing.
IMO, the OHSAA kind of dropped the ball in continuing to use the Schott but, to the best of my knowledge, it might be the only building in Ohio that can hold enough mats (and this year, that will be tested).
I know people do not like to hear it but I think a better solution is to hold two of the divisions at one location and the other two at another location. The D1, D2, and D3 boys could be rotated with the girls so all is evened out. The tournaments could be run in two days as only 8 mats would be needed at either location. This way the OHSAA is not tied down by OSU restrictions. This would also get rid of wrestling on Sundays.
Like I said, I don't expect this to be a popular idea but we have to work with what we have. Also, before any of the grumpy old men chime in, the girls are not going away so we have to deal with reality.
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Since we all know that money is important: could the OHSAA get two such venues for two days for the same amount that they now pay OSU to rent the Schott for three days?
 
Jim Behrens said:
Believe me, I am not disagreeing.
IMO, the OHSAA kind of dropped the ball in continuing to use the Schott but, to the best of my knowledge, it might be the only building in Ohio that can hold enough mats (and this year, that will be tested).
I know people do not like to hear it but I think a better solution is to hold two of the divisions at one location and the other two at another location. The D1, D2, and D3 boys could be rotated with the girls so all is evened out. The tournaments could be run in two days as only 8 mats would be needed at either location. This way the OHSAA is not tied down by OSU restrictions. This would also get rid of wrestling on Sundays.
Like I said, I don't expect this to be a popular idea but we have to work with what we have. Also, before any of the grumpy old men chime in, the girls are not going away so we have to deal with reality.
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The convention center would certainly be big enough.
 
South Carolina has their state tournament next weekend (2/24 - 2/25). They begin their season the first week of November and the first week of competition is after Thanksgiving.

North Carolina just had their state tournament this weekend BUT North Carolina begins competition in mid November with practices beginning late October.

I'm not sure how many weeks / months Ohio's season is but SC's is a solid 4 months. Our spring sports have already had scrimmages and some will have regular season competitions next weekend.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
South Carolina has their state tournament next weekend (2/24 - 2/25). They begin their season the first week of November and the first week of competition is after Thanksgiving.

North Carolina just had their state tournament this weekend BUT North Carolina begins competition in mid November with practices beginning late October.

I'm not sure how many weeks / months Ohio's season is but SC's is a solid 4 months. Our spring sports have already had scrimmages and some will have regular season competitions next weekend.
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South Carolina has 4,000 boys wrestling. Ohio has about a 1,000 less HS boys wrestling than North Carolina and South Carolina combined.
 
TCSoup said:
South Carolina has 4,000 boys wrestling. Ohio has about a 1,000 less HS boys wrestling than North Carolina and South Carolina combined.
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That number 4,000 seemed very high at first glance but running the possible math it seems pretty accurate. We have roughly 130 high school sponsored programs down here so about 30 kids a program would make sense. Certainly some have far more than others.

What's the method behind offering up body numbers if you don't mind me asking.
 
Shortening the season will create the gap between your year round wrestlers and your season wrestlers even bigger. We need those wrestlers that just want to wrestle during the season and play other sports during the off season.
 
Jim Behrens said:
Believe me, I am not disagreeing.
IMO, the OHSAA kind of dropped the ball in continuing to use the Schott but, to the best of my knowledge, it might be the only building in Ohio that can hold enough mats (and this year, that will be tested).
I know people do not like to hear it but I think a better solution is to hold two of the divisions at one location and the other two at another location. The D1, D2, and D3 boys could be rotated with the girls so all is evened out. The tournaments could be run in two days as only 8 mats would be needed at either location. This way the OHSAA is not tied down by OSU restrictions. This would also get rid of wrestling on Sundays.
Like I said, I don't expect this to be a popular idea but we have to work with what we have. Also, before any of the grumpy old men chime in, the girls are not going away so we have to deal with reality.
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leave the girls have there own tournament and leave the boys alone.the boys tournament was doing just fine.the girls tournament can be held in a high school gym just like the boys started out.girls state does not have to be ran at the same time as boys.go a week before.the boys are in a big arena because it draws big numbers.run a girls state by itself and see what the numbers are.as girls grow they arent gonna be able to do it at the same time as the boys anyhow.
 
t2p6win said:
leave the girls have there own tournament and leave the boys alone.the boys tournament was doing just fine.the girls tournament can be held in a high school gym just like the boys started out.girls state does not have to be ran at the same time as boys.go a week before.the boys are in a big arena because it draws big numbers.run a girls state by itself and see what the numbers are.as girls grow they arent gonna be able to do it at the same time as the boys anyhow.
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Since you quoted me, I will respond.
Welcome to 1938!
I don't think there is any doubt as to what you think about girls wrestling but, regardless of that, it is not going away.
You might need to get used to it.
The real issue, whether you like it or understand it, is in finding the best way to run the events. This is going to be a growing and learning year and there will likely be some mistakes made.
Ultimately adding the ladies will increase the numbers in the sport and that is a good thing. Boys numbers have been stagnant or dropping for years. Look at the number of people attending the boys tournament over the last dozen years and you will see a serious drop. The event was not doing "just fine".
If you are a fan of the sport, I am struggling to see how you are affected or why it matters to you.
 
Please keep Ohio's the same! Especially for us Indiana/Ohio state line followers. I like Indiana ending this past weekend and Ohio getting started this week. Works perfectly for my family & friends.
 
hammer89 said:
By the numbers, wrestling should only have two divisions per OHSAA bylaws. But that particular bylaw has been treated more like a recommendation lately.
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Can you clarify on the bylaw? I compared Wrestling numbers to other 2 Division and 3 Division sports last year. Wrestling had the lowest numbers for a 3 Division sport but were above the Division 2 sport with the highest numbers, so it made sense to me that they were a legitimate 3 division sport although they are on the low end.
 
Dr. Creep said:
Can you clarify on the bylaw? I compared Wrestling numbers to other 2 Division and 3 Division sports last year. Wrestling had the lowest numbers for a 3 Division sport but were above the Division 2 sport with the highest numbers, so it made sense to me that they were a legitimate 3 division sport although they are on the low end.
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OHSAA bylaws state that a sport must have 250 teams to be sponsored at all (one division), 500 for two, and 750 for three.

they kept granting exceptions to the rule (football, basketball, etc) to the point where the rule is basically nonsensical now. They also created a new category, “emerging sports” so that sports could be added under that 250 number, like lacrosse.
 
100% of the reason is the ability to use the Schottenstein Center. OHSAA has continually told the OHSWCA that we can't change the back end of the season because OSU will not/cannot work with different dates for the state tournament.

I cannot believe the Q in Cleveland cannot hold the NCAA tournament but not hold the OHSAA tournament? Seems odd to me.

OHSAA says that moving the event anywhere else would result in losing 2 match guarantee, 7th-8th placements, and likely revert to the old follow your man system...similar to Indiana,...semi loser to 3rd place bout.
 
WGTJ said:
I missed where he said that.
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It was not what he said but the implication was that the drive to Cleveland would be too far.
My point is that no one cared about the time or distance then.
The bottom line is that people might grumble about it but they will still make the drive.
I was not attacking him at all.
 
MPhillips said:
I don't disagree. It would make it almost a four drive for some folks though.
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It doesn't much matter does it? Someone will complain about the drive. someone will complain about the size of the cups of soda, ticket prices, not fair we have to move event to Cleveland because of the girls...they should be wrestling in the cow barns at the Ohio fairgrounds where they belong... 21 yr old seniors, Dwayne Palmer yelling (I 100% miss this), Jeff Jordan's vest and hat..Claymont's pinstripes.. St. Ed's bringing their own airdyne to warm up room, bag searches at entrance, the tunnel is too dark to see the photos..

4 hour drive wouldn't bother me.... Until it was a 4 hour drive home after the finals ends at 10pm on a Sunday.
 
TheStuff142 said:
100% of the reason is the ability to use the Schottenstein Center. OHSAA has continually told the OHSWCA that we can't change the back end of the season because OSU will not/cannot work with different dates for the state tournament.

I cannot believe the Q in Cleveland cannot hold the NCAA tournament but not hold the OHSAA tournament? Seems odd to me.

OHSAA says that moving the event anywhere else would result in losing 2 match guarantee, 7th-8th placements, and likely revert to the old follow your man system...similar to Indiana,...semi loser to 3rd place bout.
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Why would it force them to revert back to that old formula if it were moved?

I actually want it to stay at the Schott. That is the best place its ever been held, its big and gives the feeling of a true championship environment. The stage is/was amazing, and losing the stage (apparently) this year, is a big blow to the title bout match atmosphere, imo. That stage is iconic, and it symbolizes how far they truly came to get there. It represents the pinnacle of Ohio High School Wrestling.

Splitting up the divisions to different locations, would be a complete disaster, imo. A LOT of people have wrestlers of interest in all 3 divisions.
 
snapspinscore said:
Why would it force them to revert back to that old formula if it were moved?

I actually want it to stay at the Schott. That is the best place its ever been held, its big and gives the feeling of a true championship environment. The stage is/was amazing, and losing the stage (apparently) this year, is a big blow to the title bout match atmosphere, imo. That stage is iconic, and it symbolizes how far they truly came to get there. It represents the pinnacle of Ohio High School Wrestling.

Splitting up the divisions to different locations, would be a complete disaster, imo. A LOT of people have wrestlers of interest in all 3 divisions.
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Space. They claim there is not another venue that can hold enough mats and fans. They say format will be dramatically changed at any other venue in Ohio. They have stated that they are all ears if someone has a solution.

Beau Rugg is the Wrestling Director for OHSAA
(614) 267-2502
 
TheStuff142 said:
Space. They claim there is not another venue that can hold enough mats and fans. They say format will be dramatically changed at any other venue in Ohio. They have stated that they are all ears if someone has a solution.

Beau Rugg is the Wrestling Director for OHSAA
(614) 267-2502
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I appreciate the response and explanation. Thanks!
 
keithcarter said:
My reason for shortening the season, isnt for the best kids, or even the kids that will do it year round.

Its for those fringe kids where practice everyday is a grind. Its hard. Competing is the fun part. The part we enjoy. Grinding kids in routine practice for this long has kids losing interest and honest its beating down their bodies. I Know the seaon has been this long for a long time but anyone who says that kids arent bigger, faster or stronger is just lying to themselves which means shoulders get torked more, and athletes hit the mat harder etc.

I worry about the long term health of the sport.

Yes i am probably the biggest supporter of Freestyle and Greco on this forum. So i do wish wrestling season ended mid february. Athletes took a month to 6 weeks off to rest and then started training freestyle. The issue with the current schedules is that there isnt a break for those kids wanting to compete.

I know in my area kids love freestyle and greco because its less practice its more relaxed enviroment. the "qualifying" tournaments are just about getting mat time, not your ranking or your seed at the next tournament.

Every match matters during a kids high school season. Its seeding for next tournament, or ranking etc.
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I agree with Keith—but will also add my concern for the year round kids. They start competing in Sept at the Hoosier or October at GFC, Journeymen, S32, Columbus Day Duals, etc., etc. These events are very important nowadays for recruiting, etc. so they start training in mid -august! And so it may be less about the length for these guys—but getting that window in March to rest before FS/GR and another window after Fargo to rest—it could be really effective from a health standpoint. On top of that, why does USAW have to push Fargo to mid-July? Would be better for the kids to do it in mid or late June—it can be done. No reason to wait 6-7 more weeks after most FS State tournaments!
 
Sometime last year this got brought up and I also mentioned going back to 2 divisions for the boys, for the same reasons mentioned above: lack of numbers, lack of officials and event staff, more space for the girls at the state tournament, and overall better wrestling for us spectators to enjoy.... I got ran through the mud for even mentioning it. Seems now some people are actually starting to see the sense in my idiotic ideas
 
He'sStuckAreYouBlind said:
Sometime last year this got brought up and I also mentioned going back to 2 divisions for the boys, for the same reasons mentioned above: lack of numbers, lack of officials and event staff, more space for the girls at the state tournament, and overall better wrestling for us spectators to enjoy.... I got ran through the mud for even mentioning it. Seems now some people are actually starting to see the sense in my idiotic ideas
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go to 2 divisions for a better quality of wrestling and add the girls?
 
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