Rumor about 6-7 divisions in basketball

playboi12 said:
All this so some small towns can get a trophy?
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The current system is "all this so some coach can get a trophy?"

The system in basketball is broken. Enrollment is not an indicator of the ability to win a state title. It worked great long ago but it has no bearing on the ability to field a highly competitive team today. It is time to change the way we assign divisions.

Adding divisions might work but if we continue with the same system, we will be arguing whether the D7 champs with 35 boys in their school could beat the D1 champs with 1200 boys. That can happen when a school with 35 boys has a successful coach who knows how to "grow" a bunch of 6'5" athletic players from such a small school.

We just have to remember that players and their parents will move to new schools to have a better athletic opportunity. When players are moving, enrollment size no longer matters.
 
NEOfan said:
There are definitely multiple slicesand every time these type of programs get brought and get accused of stealing small town championships it shows who the people who dont get it truly are but I digress lol
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The fox is simple make a small town championship. Where only small rural play against each other. Then maybe a bigger rural and you will never hear complaint again.
 
The Dock said:
I think the big variable becomes if Divisions III-VII would continue to adhere to the sixteen district tournaments format across the six geographic districts, or not. Evidently that’s going away with Divisions I and II being four regions of 16.

The way it currently is, I have it as a rough estimate of 660 games across the four divisions for boys basketball.

It’s a minimum of 127 games in each division, as is. 4 x 127 = 508. The sectionals final stage, which every division has, is the round of 128. The hard math is accounting for how many sectional semi-finals and sectional quarterfinals there are in each division, as not every district is a perfect sixteen teams for instance and other geographic districts statewide have a large cache of participant teams.
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The easiest way to tell how many tournament games there will be is to take the total number of teams and subtract the number of championships. Using this graphic:
1698778488556.png


There will be 197 games in DI, 200 in DII, 200 in DIII, and 199 in DIV. Total will be 796 games.

Of course, every team that opts out of the playoffs or forfeits will reduce the total game number by 1.
 
I say go with the more Divisions and add some kind of in season OHSAA sanctioned tourney or challenge because there are fewer early round blowout games. Have some fun and do conference challenges, maybe a CLE v CIN or Akron v Dayton with match ups of similar teams with regards to level of play. Put them all in the same building too so hoopheads can catch multiple games and the state can make a buck.
 
Auggie said:
I say go with the more Divisions and add some kind of in season OHSAA sanctioned tourney or challenge because there are fewer early round blowout games. Have some fun and do conference challenges, maybe a CLE v CIN or Akron v Dayton with match ups of similar teams with regards to level of play. Put them all in the same building too so hoopheads can catch multiple games and the state can make a buck.
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I love the city challenges. In Columbus in the fall every year they used to have the city vs city fall tournament. Man those were intennnnssseeee.
 
Flevans said:
So why doesn't it happen more? I gave data. You are speaking in generalities. If enrollment doesn't matter much, why such dominance by the larger D1 schools over the smaller ones? Do you have data from other parts of the state that differs from what we are seeing in Southwest Ohio?
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I'm not sure if I was clear in my post.
Currently their are 8 schools with recorded enrollments of 1,000 or more boys. Including the 2000 state tournament, there have been 23 state champions in D1. Of those 23 trophies, it looks like 3 of them have been won by schools that have an enrollment of over 1,000 boys. This means 20 of the last 23 state champions in D1 has been smaller then the schools most fans complain about. I quick glance shows that most of the trophies in D1 have been won by schools in the 600-799 enrollment range.
 
spirit454 said:
I'm not sure if I was clear in my post.
Currently their are 8 schools with recorded enrollments of 1,000 or more boys. Including the 2000 state tournament, there have been 23 state champions in D1. Of those 23 trophies, it looks like 3 of them have been won by schools that have an enrollment of over 1,000 boys. This means 20 of the last 23 state champions in D1 has been smaller then the schools most fans complain about. I quick glance shows that most of the trophies in D1 have been won by schools in the 600-799 enrollment range.
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In D1 it is crazy catholic school heavy 2. I think from 2000 to now there have only been a few public school champions. Pick central, another Columbus team and someone else. The rest all large Catholics.
 
419Jester said:
In D1 it is crazy catholic school heavy 2. I think from 2000 to now there have only been a few public school champions. Pick central, another Columbus team and someone else. The rest all large Catholics.
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You got Wayne, Mickinley (X2), Hamilton, Centerville, Brookhaven, Jackson(X2),Mentor, Westerville, Northland and heck, even Newark took home a chip in D1 from '00 to now. Honestly, there is way more parity in the large division in basketball than football. You got schools from every demographic. Inner-City, Catholic and large and mid-size suburban all represented.
 
playboi12 said:
You got Wayne, Mickinley (X2), Hamilton, Centerville, Brookhaven, Jackson(X2),Mentor, Westerville, Northland and heck, even Newark took home a chip in D1 from '00 to now. Honestly, there is way more parity in the large division in basketball than football. You got schools from every demographic. Inner-City, Catholic and large and mid-size suburban all represented.
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I agree. So much more parity in basketball. D1 for football is pretty much all private then some really special public teams that have a ton of talent.
 
I would hate for the number of divisions to expand. I think the Kentucky tournament is the greatest high school sporting event there is and it was a sad day when Indiana switched away from that. Now, Ohio is a bigger state, so the single tournament is impossible, but as it stands with 4 divisions, there are about 200 schools in each division. That makes for a great tournament! Tournament runs aren’t cheap. Winning the whole thing means a lot. Heck, district championships, AKA sweet 16 appearances, also mean a lot, just like in the NCAA tournament. Yea, in southwest Ohio D1 (which I follow the most closely), Moeller is basically Duke, but it’s all the more sweet when somebody knocks them off.
 
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419Jester said:
Go to 1 division like Indiana used to be. 😂 The amount of people who are still mad that they have multiple divisions in Indiana is mind boggling to me. I’ve talked to a lot of those people and people are still mad the state moved away from 1. That is interesting to me.
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The sectional tournaments back in the day were amazing. All took place on a Friday-Saturday-Sunday in one very packed gym against your most hated rivals. Never seen an atmosphere like it, and that was at one of the smaller school sectionals in SE Indiana. Only thing better I’ve ever seen was the Kentucky Sweet 16 state tournament at a sold-out Rupp Arena.
 
419Jester said:
The fox is simple make a small town championship. Where only small rural play against each other. Then maybe a bigger rural and you will never hear complaint again.
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Seriously so the rest of us can get on and actually enjoy the games instead of all this*. Im only 30 but I dont remember anywhere near this much bitchin when the powerhouses came from a different type of school than they do now.

Where theres a will theres a way...Just wait until a rural school with only one middle school loses to a rural with multiple middle schools LOL
 
NEOfan said:
Seriously so the rest of us can get on and actually enjoy the games instead of all this*. Im only 30 but I dont remember anywhere near this much bitchin when the powerhouses came from a different type of school than they do now.

Where theres a will theres a way...Just wait until a rural school with only one middle school loses to a rural with multiple middle schools LOL
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There needs to be something to complain about I guess.
 
I can understand some of the disparity issues in enrollment at the larger schools, but my primary complaint has long been a VASJ who won state titles at the big school level dropping enrollment but retaining their athletes and blowing away the D4 competition with what proved to be 6 or 7 D1 college athletes on their 2013 roster. Since then D3 public school Deer Park pulled the same stunt as has the current D4 power in RH.

Adding more divisions will not enable small rural schools to win more titles. I would be all for a division between small rural and small urban/suburban schools, but acknowledge that still likely would land many innocent schools of the urban/suburban variety in an untenable situation.
 
I've heard coaches voted for their preferred amount of divisions at preseason district meetings. Same with shot clock. Think they're both coming sooner rather than later at this point.
 
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419Jester said:
I don’t think kids are thinking that way to be honest. But maybe they are 🤷‍♂️
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They're not, they want to play. Most of them play against tougher competition in the summer then play against higher divisions anyway during the high school season but again it's a case of " if my guy(s) is better than yours what difference does the division make?"
 
Round_Ball_Fan said:
I've heard coaches voted for there preferred amount of divisions at preseason district meetings. Same with shot clock. Think they're both coming sooner rather than later at this point.
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Shot clock me please.

People in here have convinced me of adding 1 divisiin. I was staunch no increase in division but this thread has shifted me a little.
 
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