RPI Rankings for NWO Regionals
- Thread starter braygatron4
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hubman
Well-known member
Similar to D1 there is a glut of D2 schools in the NE when compared to other parts of the state, so much so they have enough for 5 Districts (D1 has 6). So they keep 4 in the NE regional but send the 5th out west to meet up with the 3 from out there.
hubman
Well-known member
Might not go down as easy
Buchtel by 20+.
Central has size, but not mobile in space size like Buchtel. They will be trapping with multiple 6'6"-6'7" long athletic guys who can also score at all 3 levels. The D1/D2 NWO teams have not faired well outside of NWO when facing the better teams from NE and Central Ohio. A bunch of pretty ugly beatdowns. Hate to say it, but this matchup gets ugly. The margin could shrink next year if the prep schools don't come calling for Central's top player.
Central has size, but not mobile in space size like Buchtel. They will be trapping with multiple 6'6"-6'7" long athletic guys who can also score at all 3 levels. The D1/D2 NWO teams have not faired well outside of NWO when facing the better teams from NE and Central Ohio. A bunch of pretty ugly beatdowns. Hate to say it, but this matchup gets ugly. The margin could shrink next year if the prep schools don't come calling for Central's top player.
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
HS basketball needs an anti-stall rule bad. Maybe no shot clock, but perhaps Elam Ending required and officials having the ability to shut the clock off, force teams to play to 15 each quarter.
Unsure if you were there but I kept getting texts that TC was taking 1-2 minute possessions. 23-20 is absolutely absurd in 32 minutes of action. No ones season should end in that way
NWOobserver
Member
It might be true that D1 hasn't had success against NE Ohio, but it is just the opposite in D2.
Defiance won a state title in 2016 (I think) beating Holy Name in the regionals. The year Wauseon was state runner-up (2017?) Holy Name was beaten by Elida in the regionals. Lexington beat Bay Village the following year to go to state. Columbus Beechcroft (or Brookhaven) was in that regional also with Wauseon the year Lexington went to state. Lima Shawnee got beat in a close game the following year by Columbus South. Columbus South got be in the state finals after leading the entire game.
D2 has faired extremely well against NE Ohio over the years in this regional. Let's hope Central Catholic can come out and play well. It sounds like they are really on a roll.
I agree, you can add Rogers, Whitmer and Lima Sr having some success at the regional level in "recent" times. ***Edit Central also won a regional title in 2011....not so distant past.
I was talking about games this year against St. Eds, St. Iggy, Lutheran East, Gahanna Lincoln etc. most of the margins are 15-18+ points vs the TRAC schools.
For this game Central has a lot working against them. They are very young, missing two players and Buchtel is very talented. Central's future is bright, but this matchup doesn't look good and it is tough to slow the game down with a young team. I hope I am wrong.
Buchtel can take some quick/questionable shots without much ball movement at times so a good veteran team like Shawnee is capable of beating them especially if they get a lead and can control tempo. Buchtel will give up a lot of points. In 3 of their 4 losses they gave up 74 or more points.
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I disagree...this adds to the beauty of high school basketball in Ohio. No need for any of what you said...if you want a higher score get out and play defense...make them speed things up offensively. What I am gathering from you is TC stalled and lost..that is their coaches fault.
I would love to see the NBA do away with the shot clock or take it to 35/40 seconds and make someone play defense. Right now the NBA is nothing more then 10 guys playing a pick up game at the rec center.
braygatron4
Active member
My Regional Predictions:
D2:
Buchtel over TCC, Shawnee over Shelby...Buchtel over Shawnee?? that game could go either way, with the winner getting The Fighting LeBron's in the State Semis. yikes..
D3:
OG over Archbold, WR over Johnstown, Western Reserve over OG. I could see an argument where all 4 teams have a shot at the Regional Championship. None of them really have a shot at the State Championship considering they'll go against Lutheran East in State Semis and on the 5% chance they win, would still have to beat Worthington Christian in the final..
D4:
Grove over Carey, Antwerp over New Bremen, Grove over Antwerp. Whichever team wins Regionals will likely be the favorite in the State semis as the southeast teams aren't very strong this year. Berlin Hiland isn't the usual Berlin Hiland, although still good. Trimble is down there as well but again, the southeast is a bit weaker than NWO basketball. Other side of the bracket would be either Tri-Village or Botkins vs Richmond Heights, with Richmond being the favorite right now to win it all. Although don't count out the Tri-Villages, Botkins, Groves, or Antwerps of the world to do exactly what Crestview did against them 2 years ago.
D2:
Buchtel over TCC, Shawnee over Shelby...Buchtel over Shawnee?? that game could go either way, with the winner getting The Fighting LeBron's in the State Semis. yikes..
D3:
OG over Archbold, WR over Johnstown, Western Reserve over OG. I could see an argument where all 4 teams have a shot at the Regional Championship. None of them really have a shot at the State Championship considering they'll go against Lutheran East in State Semis and on the 5% chance they win, would still have to beat Worthington Christian in the final..
D4:
Grove over Carey, Antwerp over New Bremen, Grove over Antwerp. Whichever team wins Regionals will likely be the favorite in the State semis as the southeast teams aren't very strong this year. Berlin Hiland isn't the usual Berlin Hiland, although still good. Trimble is down there as well but again, the southeast is a bit weaker than NWO basketball. Other side of the bracket would be either Tri-Village or Botkins vs Richmond Heights, with Richmond being the favorite right now to win it all. Although don't count out the Tri-Villages, Botkins, Groves, or Antwerps of the world to do exactly what Crestview did against them 2 years ago.
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
As they say "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" lol. I disagree highly though with your second sentence, basketball in general is FAR easier for the offense than the defense. Offense runs plays and knows where people will be positioned, defense is a reactionary formation to the offenses plays. Any skilled backcourt can run four corners or motion and dribble around for 1-2 minutes.
I'll say this, things like this contribute to a lack of fundamentals as much as AAU pickup ball does. In my opinion college basketball has perfection right now, 30 seconds & 20 on a rebound leads to an awesome game with great flow. I've enjoyed the play this season so much on television.
OG was also missing Brennan Blevins for the regular season matchup with the Streaks
Ty_michael
New member
You think either of those D2 games will be close? That regional final should be a must watch!!
eastisbest
Well-known member
So you're proposing the McWinnie is suddenly a bad coach?
I saw 32 minutes of action. Not always the best basketball as both teams seemed at times a habit to forget which team they were supposed to pass to but there was as much sweat equity in that game as any you could want to watch with scores in the 80s.
eastisbest
Well-known member
Shhhhh, don't tell smurf but central has two very good ball handlers that might just be able to "slow" that game down. Floyd will know his best attack and defense for the talent he has. They've seen speed. They've seen quick. How they handle a Livingstone, well that might depend upon who has the most bribe mo.... uh the foul situation. If it doesn't work, it probably wouldn't work regardless the coach.
Hey, if Central were to win in a slow down game of 23-21, do you think smurf will celebrate or demand Central forfeit?
braygatron4
Active member
may be close for a while, but i see both buchtel and shawnee winning by double digits.
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
Nah, Heintschel has done the same stuff for years here. All I’m saying is the rules should prevent this in some way.
eastisbest
Well-known member
When watching a game, I suppose I have the same bad habit as most in following the ball. Games like that TC-Antwerp, I actually catch myself watching basketball.
There's a very important difference between teaching a game to a developmental age and college and NBA IMO, the coaches are there to teach all the kids on the court. Using the extreme case as an example, a blow out. I've seen coaches, Heintschel included, call off the dogs (unless is SFS, lol) so the other kids can run their sets, play defense.... learn. Shot clock takes that off the table. The only option a coach would have in that case would be to purposely let the other team score as opposed to score against a set defense, just in a slower motion.
I'm a LONG way from being convinced shot clock either improves the high school game or the purpose of the game and given enough time to keep talking, almost every proponent of shot clock comes around to admitting they want it because they get bored watching a slow, well thought out low scoring game and it's only the score at the end that matters. I'll avoid the honeymoon night metaphor here. Oops.
edit: not that I wouldn't occasionally rather slam-bam thank you mam without all that cuddling but I'm avoiding that metaphor so you didn't see it.
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I absolutely agree here. Now would I have liked to have seen more shots go in? Sure. I'm curious what McWhinnie's plan was, if it was in an effort to keep Landers from flying to the rim constantly in a more up-and-down game.
Gun to my head, have to make a change: eliminate hand-checking. Kids get mugged at times up and down the floor in the name of "physical" defense. Now does that put less athletic teams at even more of a disadvantage? Maybe.
I'm with you east, I don't see how the shot clock makes it better. Teams that suck at shooting aren't suddenly going to be better shooters. They're just going to shoot more and probably miss more. I saw a Continental-Holgate game finish 20-18 in the tournament a few years ago. I'll admit, I'd have liked it to at least have finished in the 30s but there were still some exciting moments and nearly a half-courter to win at the buzzer.
NWOobserver
Member
I'm not sure how much of a shot clock would change the game. I'm guessing most high school possessions don't last 35 seconds or whatever the shot clock would be. You get the possessions at the end of the quarter or certain teams that may take longer at times, but I think it is rare.
Also, I think you are underestimating how hard it is to hold the ball against a good defensive team. Toledo Christian tried to hold it at the end of the 3rd quarter and turned it over. It led to a big 3 by Antwerps guard at the end of the quarter. Toledo Christian also tried to hold it at the end of the game and turned it over there also. That led to a buzzer beating 3 by Antwerp to end the game. You can't argue that Toledo Christian doesn't have ball handlers because those 2 guards that they have are really good and they have others that are solid.
Why does Central Catholic have 2 players that are out? Are they doing all of this without 2 of their best players?
Also, I think you are underestimating how hard it is to hold the ball against a good defensive team. Toledo Christian tried to hold it at the end of the 3rd quarter and turned it over. It led to a big 3 by Antwerps guard at the end of the quarter. Toledo Christian also tried to hold it at the end of the game and turned it over there also. That led to a buzzer beating 3 by Antwerp to end the game. You can't argue that Toledo Christian doesn't have ball handlers because those 2 guards that they have are really good and they have others that are solid.
Why does Central Catholic have 2 players that are out? Are they doing all of this without 2 of their best players?
eastisbest
Well-known member
Don't know about the players, was kind of curious myself. Thought it was a quarantine issue until that last poster implied it a long term thing. I do recall they had a transfer sit but that's hardly a disadvantage unless not being able to use players that aren't yours is suddenly a disadvantage.
Someone did the possession stats and presented them on a previous discussion. According to those, you'd be correct. In the general case, shot clock is a solution looking for a problem, even in low scoring games. It's only purpose is to take away a possibility rarely exercised. I think it important to keep that option on the table as it emphasizes a different skill set on both sides of the ball and permits a very important tactic in any real life competition, changing tempo and responding to changed tempo without losing composure. Tactics used in everything from card games to business transactions. Let them stew, see if they break.
Someone did the possession stats and presented them on a previous discussion. According to those, you'd be correct. In the general case, shot clock is a solution looking for a problem, even in low scoring games. It's only purpose is to take away a possibility rarely exercised. I think it important to keep that option on the table as it emphasizes a different skill set on both sides of the ball and permits a very important tactic in any real life competition, changing tempo and responding to changed tempo without losing composure. Tactics used in everything from card games to business transactions. Let them stew, see if they break.
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ayCC!
NWO Realignment Enjoyer
One is sitting for transfer rules and the other tore his ACL in practice. Both were pretty impactful players during the regular season for sure, but Chico Johnson definitely has stepped up in terms of being their no. 1 guy. With Greenlee and Jones they’d definitely benefit from them playing Buchtel. I just hope they keep it close come Thursday.
braygatron4
Active member
Real question: is getting a shot clock for HS basketball the most annoying debates in sports? It's right up there with should the steroid users in baseball be in the HOF, MJ vs LeBron, etc. I feel like I'm in the minority that i dont give a rats *** about anybody's opinion on the shot clock rules because its not changing! Start a new thread if you want to get all sweaty about shot clocks.
eastisbest
Well-known member
It'd be false to call the transfer student a lost player. Might as well call every kid in the building not on the team or the entire SJJ roster lost players to CCHS. He's not your player, you're not down two men. Unfortunate about the injured player though, How long has he been out? Hopefully next kid up is getting good experience and filling the gap.
Central only played 15 regular season games. Transfers can only play 1/2 of their regularly scheduled games (11/22 games). I referenced Central's scores vs Lutheran East and Gahanna Lincoln - teams who are somewhat similar to Buchtel in style of play, size and athleticism. Those games were played with Greenlee and Jones that Central lost by 17 and 18 points.
In the context of comparing scores and trying to figure out if Central could close the margin - the transfer is a "lost player". Central has not shown an ability to outscore a team like Buchtel in an up and down game. That leaves trying to control tempo with a young team, down two of their better players, including a primary ball handler in Greenlee. That is why I think this game gets ugly and becomes a 20+ point margin.
Central Scores:
Common opponent:
Buchtel 88 Lutheran East 81
In the context of comparing scores and trying to figure out if Central could close the margin - the transfer is a "lost player". Central has not shown an ability to outscore a team like Buchtel in an up and down game. That leaves trying to control tempo with a young team, down two of their better players, including a primary ball handler in Greenlee. That is why I think this game gets ugly and becomes a 20+ point margin.
Central Scores:
Common opponent:
Buchtel 88 Lutheran East 81
eastisbest
Well-known member
For your calculations, sure. But from competitive loss, no. He's not "an excuse," or an unfortunate occurrence like the injury, they knew he would not be on the team. This "cinderella" stuff is nonsense.
As a young team thats been developing, I hope they've accomplished a steeper learning curve that adds a few points to your calculations so that they're able to stay in the game. Rossford only lost to Ig by 16 and they certainly had their competitive moments. Central might have a puncher's chance here, with the right strategy. I would agree, it doesn't sound like up and down is that strategy.
When a big underdog, as a coach, do you see first if you can play your game against the other team or do you immediately try to show something different? Floyd has some interesting hours ahead.
As a young team thats been developing, I hope they've accomplished a steeper learning curve that adds a few points to your calculations so that they're able to stay in the game. Rossford only lost to Ig by 16 and they certainly had their competitive moments. Central might have a puncher's chance here, with the right strategy. I would agree, it doesn't sound like up and down is that strategy.
When a big underdog, as a coach, do you see first if you can play your game against the other team or do you immediately try to show something different? Floyd has some interesting hours ahead.
So we can put you down as a maybe for shot clocks in Ohio???
NWOobserver
Member
2 outstanding games in D4. Grove wins a nail biter and the Antwerp/NB game had so many swings and runs by both teams. Questionable charge call at the end of regulation against Landers with under 5 seconds to go. He ended up making the shot that would have put Antwerp up 2. It could have been a good call. I would love to see a replay.
Looking forward to the Archbold vs. OG game. I'll stick to my guns and say the Streaks will win a close one. Archbold has so many ways that they can hurt you and of course OG does also. It should be a great game.
Looking forward to the Archbold vs. OG game. I'll stick to my guns and say the Streaks will win a close one. Archbold has so many ways that they can hurt you and of course OG does also. It should be a great game.
CC Track Fan
Well-known member
Looks like he dipped his shoulder which gets called a lot of times. The NB kids did play it up.