Richmond Heights CB of 0??

James x2

Well-known member
Not all, just those that happen to have quality players from multiple districts transfer/move in for high school. My school faced Lutheran East in the state tourney a few years ago. They had added 6-8 new players in that current season and previous year. And coincidentally they were all very good players.
The " Lue" as their jersey states had players transfer from Euclid, Cleve Hts, Cle Central Catholic, etc, etc, a few years ago. They followed the ex Euclid coach over there. I suspect these kids all new him from AAU or so. He never did much while at Euclid and then BAM they are down in Columbus playing in a final 4. Richmond Hts has lost players to VASJ and got players from VASJ. They border Euclid to the south, and Lyndhurst/South Euclid(Brush) to the North and East. Lots of talent in that area. They are building a new school by the way. They have had some good teams that battled VASJ in the districts at Garfield in the last decade or so. They have some tradition.
 

Carol Danvers

Active member
The " Lue" as their jersey states had players transfer from Euclid, Cleve Hts, Cle Central Catholic, etc, etc, a few years ago. They followed the ex Euclid coach over there. I suspect these kids all new him from AAU or so. He never did much while at Euclid and then BAM they are down in Columbus playing in a final 4. Richmond Hts has lost players to VASJ and got players from VASJ. They border Euclid to the south, and Lyndhurst/South Euclid(Brush) to the North and East. Lots of talent in that area. They are building a new school by the way. They have had some good teams that battled VASJ in the districts at Garfield in the last decade or so. They have some tradition.
Like I stated earlier in the thread, AOC is run out of Richmond Hts. Grades 3-9 I believe. They hired an AAU coach. They built a new gym. Someone else stated the schools the kids are from: Glenville, Canton Glen Oak, Euclid, Rhodes, a school in PA. Again, it’s the AAU mentality which is now the “tradition”. I’m sure the kids now live in district, but just look at the AAU rosters and you can see who’s coming up next. Also, the Lue got those two freshmen starters from Beachwood a couple years ago. Got to see that AAU team, very good.
 

Lep2002

Well-known member
Richmond Heights has tradition. They are a small school in a part of the state where there is a ton of basketball talent. Richmond Heights does NOT offer open enrollment, so you need to live in the district in order to play basketball there. Richmond Heights isn't STVM, either. They aren't winning all the championships. I am not sure what the fuss is.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Richmond Heights has tradition. They are a small school in a part of the state where there is a ton of basketball talent. Richmond Heights does NOT offer open enrollment, so you need to live in the district in order to play basketball there. Richmond Heights isn't STVM, either. They aren't winning all the championships. I am not sure what the fuss is.
The point is that these small schools from communities that have 1-2 stoplights and that rarely if ever get kids transferring in to their schools for athletics don't want to face an opponent that can get a handful of transfers in any given year from a metro area of a couple million people.

They're right. It's a joke, although I don't know that there's ever going to be a valid solution to that problem.
 

Lep2002

Well-known member
The point is that these small schools from communities that have 1-2 stoplights and that rarely if ever get kids transferring in to their schools for athletics don't want to face an opponent that can get a handful of transfers in any given year from a metro area of a couple million people.

They're right. It's a joke, although I don't know that there's ever going to be a valid solution to that problem.
I don't know what to say about that. If 1 spotlight towns don't want to play teams like Richmond Heights, I suggest they petition to start their own division. Maybe they can play in the new Division 5 title game at 9am on Spectrum Sports.
 

Insane92

Well-known member
I don't know what to say about that. If 1 spotlight towns don't want to play teams like Richmond Heights, I suggest they petition to start their own division. Maybe they can play in the new Division 5 title game at 9am on Spectrum Sports.
So all you want to see know is the AAU environment consume HS basketball too with transfers forming super teams? Count me out. But hey, I guess the small town teams just have to “get better” and “work harder“ right?
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
Like I stated earlier in the thread, AOC is run out of Richmond Hts. Grades 3-9 I believe. They hired an AAU coach. They built a new gym. Someone else stated the schools the kids are from: Glenville, Canton Glen Oak, Euclid, Rhodes, a school in PA. Again, it’s the AAU mentality which is now the “tradition”. I’m sure the kids now live in district, but just look at the AAU rosters and you can see who’s coming up next. Also, the Lue got those two freshmen starters from Beachwood a couple years ago. Got to see that AAU team, very good.
The point is that these small schools from communities that have 1-2 stoplights and that rarely if ever get kids transferring in to their schools for athletics don't want to face an opponent that can get a handful of transfers in any given year from a metro area of a couple million people.

They're right. It's a joke, although I don't know that there's ever going to be a valid solution to that problem.
Sadly none of this is new to high school sports but especially not new to basketball. Shades of North College Hill 15 years ago come to mind.
 

Insane92

Well-known member
Sadly none of this is new to high school sports but especially not new to basketball. Shades of North College Hill 15 years ago come to mind.
I just don’t understand the people that are in favor of this stufff going on(outside of the fans for the schools obviously). How does this help HS sports at all?
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
If people have an issue with open enrollment public's or transfers then why not bring up private schools ? They can recruit many counties across all sports. And they have huge endowments, tons of money and usually 2 parent households. That's a way bigger advantage. Schools like richmond hts may do this in one sport. Can't afford to do it across all like privates do
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
I just don’t understand the people that are in favor of this stufff going on(outside of the fans for the schools obviously). How does this help HS sports at all?
Loaded question there. FWIW D4 did end up with two small towns from NW / W Central Ohio in the finals. If it's any consolation the universe did work itself out.
 

3out2in

Well-known member
So you’re just going to ignore the list someone already made in this thread with the players confirmed to have moved and are playing for this school plus just happen to be good enough to be starting for them too? Got it. Oh and never mind this team has no basketball tradition except for they’re suddenly good two years ago with a new coach.
I think we're being kind of selective here. When Hiland won their back to back titles in '11 and '12 they benefitted from an All-Ohio AAU move in. They were fortunate that he happened to move to Berlin because he hit a 25 foot buzzer beating 3 in the regional final against, coincidentally, Richmond Heights. People also ignore John Glenn's state title with 2 key move ins. You've also ignored New Boston's roster this year.
 

Insane92

Well-known member
Loaded question there. FWIW D4 did end up with two small towns from NW / W Central Ohio in the finals. If it's any consolation the universe did work itself out.
No, definitely understand and like to see that. Not complaining about that at all. Honestly, we will continue to see super teams happen and there isn’t an easy solution to it.
 

Insane92

Well-known member
I think we're being kind of selective here. When Hiland won their back to back titles in '11 and '12 they benefitted from an All-Ohio AAU move in. They were fortunate that he happened to move to Berlin because he hit a 25 foot buzzer beating 3 in the regional final against, coincidentally, Richmond Heights. People also ignore John Glenn's state title with 2 key move ins. You've also ignored New Boston's roster this year.
I pointed out Hiland in another response and did not know about New Boston’s team until after I posted this. Apologize for forgetting John Glenn, you are correct about that.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I don't know what to say about that. If 1 spotlight towns don't want to play teams like Richmond Heights, I suggest they petition to start their own division. Maybe they can play in the new Division 5 title game at 9am on Spectrum Sports.
I know this was said in jest, but considering they fairly recently added a division in football that's actually not a ridiculous idea...although I'd rather see some type of "open" division concept for the AAU teams and top flight D1 programs to battle it out in.

That's the crux of the argument in basketball. Unlike football, a few kids can make a huge difference between being a dud and being a serious contender. Gaining a few legit kids in the lower divisions, however you are getting them, makes all the difference in the world.
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
No, definitely understand and like to see that. Not complaining about that at all. Honestly, we will continue to see super teams happen and there isn’t an easy solution to it.
I will say this. Everyone always has a knee jerk reaction to these kind of things. Things that have been going on for a good minute. What's the solution? Someone did bring up the idea of an "open division" that goes beyond enrollment numbers and is well for everyone. Someone else discussed going to 5 divisions for basketball. What's to say 20 years from now we're not complaining about adding a 6th division because Dayton Arts, Tech, Chinese, Tesla Charter is playing with 1 kid from Italy, a kid from South Africa, a seven footer from the Ukraine, etc....

I mean we already see enough people on the football forum complain each year about how watered down the football playoffs are with 7 divisions.

Do you really want to say hey my school was Division 35 State Champs this year.

We can't legislate where someone moves to. On the debate forum that's called communism.

As a wrestling coach I've seen my fair share of kids around this state and country move to "greener pastures". Is it a good thing? Not really (although sometimes I have seen cases where it was warranted for the kid to move to a different program to better themselves).
 

The Dock

Well-known member
Probably worth noting that a 5th division would likely just cut the size deficit already existing in Division 1.
 

Lep2002

Well-known member
So all you want to see know is the AAU environment consume HS basketball too with transfers forming super teams? Count me out. But hey, I guess the small town teams just have to “get better” and “work harder“ right?
There are rules. Richmond Heights followed the rules. They are NOT an open-enrollment school. If the OHSAA wants to monitor move-ins at every school in the state, so be it. They can change the rules to account for that, if they want, but until they do I don't see what the fuss is about. Richmond Heights is not the only successful team to have kids move into the community.

As for what the 1 stoplight teams can or should do to compete with a suburban team in/around bigger cities, I don't have a good answer. Quite frankly, I really don't care. The good teams that can compete will make it to Columbus (or Dayton) and I will watch them on TV. The ones that can't handle it, or don't want to compete, will lose in Districts or Regionals and I won't be bothered by them.
 

Blue Jay Fan

Well-known member
There are rules. Richmond Heights followed the rules. They are NOT an open-enrollment school. If the OHSAA wants to monitor move-ins at every school in the state, so be it. They can change the rules to account for that, if they want, but until they do I don't see what the fuss is about. Richmond Heights is not the only successful team to have kids move into the community.

As for what the 1 stoplight teams can or should do to compete with a suburban team in/around bigger cities, I don't have a good answer. Quite frankly, I really don't care. The good teams that can compete will make it to Columbus (or Dayton) and I will watch them on TV. The ones that can't handle it, or don't want to compete, will lose in Districts or Regionals and I won't be bothered by them.
We live in entirely different realities. Us small town fans see coaches/schools in big cities assemble their teams from a wide area and it's simply unbelievable to us. The kids we see start varsity for our teams are the same kids we saw play at halftime of the varsity game when they were in 4-5th grade. There is an occasional transfer/move-in but not 6, 7,or 8 at a time. What would you tell your son and his classmates who have played together since 2nd grade when they get beat by 30 points in the state tournament by a team whose players had to wear name tags to the first practice because most went to other schools the year before?
 

James x2

Well-known member
Americans are the biggest scam artists out there. If they can get around the spirit of the rules they will in any and every fashion imaginable.
 

Lep2002

Well-known member
We live in entirely different realities. Us small town fans see coaches/schools in big cities assemble their teams from a wide area and it's simply unbelievable to us. The kids we see start varsity for our teams are the same kids we saw play at halftime of the varsity game when they were in 4-5th grade. There is an occasional transfer/move-in but not 6, 7,or 8 at a time. What would you tell your son and his classmates who have played together since 2nd grade when they get beat by 30 points in the state tournament by a team whose players had to wear name tags to the first practice because most went to other schools the year before?
I get it, but it also goes the other way. How many good players from Richmond Heights, for example, moved to Euclid to player for the Panthers over the years? How many have went to Cleveland Heights or moved to Shaker Heights? How many have played for VASJ or Cleveland Benedictine? How many kids from Warrensville Heights ended up at St. Peter Chanel (RIP)? How many tradition-rich private schools are there around all of these 1 stoplight towns that those schools need to worry about? A public school like Richmond Heights needs to worry about St. Eds, Conerstone Christian, VASJ, Luthern East, or Benedictine all taking their kids. They may even worry about St. Ignatius or if a kid is really good he could end up at STVM.

The bottom line is that these kids are all going to end up somewhere and these schools all have their own, unique, problems to worry about. If you eliminate private schools and everyone plays for the town they grew up in from the time they were 10, the 1 stoplight schools would still run into some version of what Richmond Heights is if they want to win a state title.
 

westa-k-ron1

Well-known member
I get it, but it also goes the other way. How many good players from Richmond Heights, for example, moved to Euclid to player for the Panthers over the years? How many have went to Cleveland Heights or moved to Shaker Heights? How many have played for VASJ or Cleveland Benedictine? How many kids from Warrensville Heights ended up at St. Peter Chanel (RIP)? How many tradition-rich private schools are there around all of these 1 stoplight towns that those schools need to worry about? A public school like Richmond Heights needs to worry about St. Eds, Conerstone Christian, VASJ, Luthern East, or Benedictine all taking their kids. They may even worry about St. Ignatius or if a kid is really good he could end up at STVM.

The bottom line is that these kids are all going to end up somewhere and these schools all have their own, unique, problems to worry about. If you eliminate private schools and everyone plays for the town they grew up in from the time they were 10, the 1 stoplight schools would still run into some version of what Richmond Heights is if they want to win a state title.
The same people who would complain about participation trophies seem to want that in boys basketball. Folks who would be all about freedom and school choice draw the line when it comes to HS BB, then it becomes evil.
 

Blue Jay Fan

Well-known member
We simply need some coaches and school administrators to have some ethics and say "We're not doing this. A high school state title is not so important that we'll do ANYTHING to get one."
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
We simply need some coaches and school administrators to have some ethics and say "We're not doing this. A high school state title is not so important that we'll do ANYTHING to get one."
It's a nice thought, but there are not many schools out there, even publics, who can afford to turn away anyone who is willing to enroll and forefeit the money that follows each student.
 
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Mackinbiner

Well-known member
It's a nice thought, but there are not many schools out there, even publics, who can afford to turn away anyone who is willing to enroll and forego the money that follows each student.
Wouldn't that be the 17% of districts (111) that choose to forego open enrollment?
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Not many places out there that aren't willing to accept some form of open enrollment up to their current capacity and staffing levels. It's pretty much free money if you have the space.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
We simply need some coaches and school administrators to have some ethics and say "We're not doing this. A high school state title is not so important that we'll do ANYTHING to get one."
The problem is administrators and coaches themselves aren't the arbiters of what makes a student's transfer 'reasonable', or not. I can't think of a single school in the entire state, and yes I'm including the MAC-land, where an employee in either of those capacities is going to turn away an interested student (who happens to play sports) that fits the school's criteria for enrollment and agrees to the student code of conduct. Past the point of admission -- the kid wants to play ball. OK -- it's something kids want to do. If he's good enough to make it past try-outs, why would you cut the kid or bar him from playing on any basis that's not elaborated in writing (student handbook, school's rules on who can play sports, what OHSAA has to say regarding student-athlete eligibility etc) and instead is an ad hoc opinion on the matter?

I'm also not a fan of the idea behind "coaches and administrators set 'examples' and don't let transfers play" because whatever a school chooses to do [so as long as it is ethical and by the books, as they are written] should be their business, and their business only. Although they are not corporations, schools invariably have an obligation to make their offerings (educational, athletic, morale, involvement) as reasonably competitive as possible (within legal and permissible means) so as to attain (and retain) the highest enrollment that can be had. I have schools in my immediate area that completely fail to recognize that concept, and they wonder why no new students enroll in while they lose handfuls of students over the years to nearby districts through open-enrollment (or in the case of privates, just transferring to public.) If School 'A' wants to act against their own interests, sure -- if School 'B' and 'C' in the same general area want to act in their own interests, then why shouldn't they?
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Not many places out there that aren't willing to accept some form of open enrollment up to their current capacity and staffing levels. It's pretty much free money if you have the space.
And if you have the space, then you probably have some type of overhead costs associated with that space that the student's state money can help cover.
 
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