Richmond Heights CB of 0??

braygatron4

Active member
Can someone explain to me how Richmond Heights has four transfers on their team but has a Competitive Balance Enrollment of 0??

Jaiden Cox-Holloway--6'5" transfer from Euclid (was D-1 All-District HM last year)
Priest Ryan--6'6" transfer from Vincentian Academy (PA)
Amarion Dickerson--6'7" transfer from Rhodes
Lorenzo Nettles--transfer from Glenville

Enrollment of 85 but a Competitive Balance enrollment of 0...Wasn't the whole point of Competitive Balance to make teams that choose kids from wherever they want move up??
 

cardzfan1234

Well-known member
That is a great question. On top of those guys that transferred this year, their best player (Josiah Harris) is a junior that came from GlenOak after his freshman year. Sounds like your typical run of the mill DIV public school squad. Good luck Division IV.
 

Insane92

Well-known member
That is a great question. On top of those guys that transferred this year, their best player (Josiah Harris) is a junior that came from GlenOak after his freshman year. Sounds like your typical run of the mill DIV public school squad. Good luck Division IV.
But didn't you know you just have to "get better" to play schools like this? Small public school with no previous success and suddenly becomes good within the last 3 years with transfers. Just like Deer Park a couple years ago. Unfortunately becoming more and more common as of late.
 

braygatron4

Active member
So based on that flyer, a team receives no CB enrollment points if both the player and his parent move into the District? So all these kids I'm assuming moved into the District...
 

NEOsportsfan09

Active member
So based on that flyer, a team receives no CB enrollment points if both the player and his parent move into the District? So all these kids I'm assuming moved into the District...
That CB number is based off last year's roster so if they transferred this season, it won't be added to the CB number until the next divisional assignments for the 2021-2022 school year.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I'd assume all of those kids have addresses that are inside of the district if they're all still playing. No clue if Richmond Heights is closed enrollment or open enrollment.

Like with larger metro private schools in the lower divisions, it's tough for the majority that are small town and rural to compete against what Richmond Heights has been able to do here and with what Deer Park has done in recent history stocking up on talent from across a large metro area. Same with the advantage factors that benefit some rural schools on the girls side in the lower divisions, there really is no "get better" or "work harder" that will allow more than maybe a handful of teams at most in the division to have any chance of competing with them.
 
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braygatron4

Active member
That CB number is based off last year's roster so if they transferred this season, it won't be added to the CB number until the next divisional assignments for the 2021-2022 school year.
I mean, it's no secret they have a roster full of transfers every year for the last 3 or so years. But that kind of rule seems illogical. Why is it so hard to just be like ok, you're a team that has 4 players transfer in from D1 schools, you shouldn't be playing in D4???
 

187xovr

Active member
I thought that kids who did not start high school there but play on the basketball team count more towards their enrollment than the home grown players. Wasn't this what competitive balance was initially all about? Richmond Heights repeatedly has 5-7 players who started high school outside of the district playing on their team. I do not mind the model that their team has...........just get them in the correct division. Richmond Heights, Lutheran East, and St V are all state title favorites. All three belong in a bigger division than they are currently in.
 

187xovr

Active member
There are at least four teams of the eight remaining in D4 who have no chance of even having a competitive game with Richmond Heights. Will RH get competitive balance points if they win the state title? Somebody told me that St V would have stayed D1 if they would have beat Moeller in the state title game two years ago, but they dropped to D2 because they lost. Not sure how true that is.
 

Smalls

Well-known member
I don't think there will ever be an answer for this. Plus, if there is a valid change of residency I don't know that there needs to be a fix. People move all the time for a variety of reason. Should the OHSAA have 1,000s of hearings to review every move that takes place and the "true" reason behind the move for every sport?

Any attempt to fully fix the competitive balance issue would require the OHSAA to create 20+ divisions to account for all the variety of school district combinations.

1. Size
2. Public vs Private
3. Open Enrollment - Statewide - Big City
4. Open Enrollment - Statewide - Rural
5. Open Enrollment - Adjoining District - Big City
6. Open Enrollment - Adjoining District - Rural
7. Closed Enrollment

A more realistic version would be a public/private tournament split (still play in the regular season). Name a public school state champ and a private school state champ. Have the public and private winners in each division play for the overall state championship. Another level I would offer is an "Open" division that any school can opt into.

Once you try to split it up much more than that it gets a lot more difficult.
 

NEOsportsfan09

Active member
There are at least four teams of the eight remaining in D4 who have no chance of even having a competitive game with Richmond Heights. Will RH get competitive balance points if they win the state title? Somebody told me that St V would have stayed D1 if they would have beat Moeller in the state title game two years ago, but they dropped to D2 because they lost. Not sure how true that is.
No truth to that. It's based solely off of enrollment and when you enrolled.
 
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NEOsportsfan09

Active member
I don't think there will ever be an answer for this. Plus, if there is a valid change of residency I don't know that there needs to be a fix. People move all the time for a variety of reason. Should the OHSAA have 1,000s of hearings to review every move that takes place and the "true" reason behind the move for every sport?

Any attempt to fully fix the competitive balance issue would require the OHSAA to create 20+ divisions to account for all the variety of school district combinations.

1. Size
2. Public vs Private
3. Open Enrollment - Statewide - Big City
4. Open Enrollment - Statewide - Rural
5. Open Enrollment - Adjoining District - Big City
6. Open Enrollment - Adjoining District - Rural
7. Closed Enrollment

A more realistic version would be a public/private tournament split (still play in the regular season). Name a public school state champ and a private school state champ. Have the public and private winners in each division play for the overall state championship. Another level I would offer is an "Open" division that any school can opt into.

Once you try to split it up much more than that it gets a lot more difficult.
When talking about private- public split, I keep thinking about this "Tim's Take" from Tim Warsinskey in the Plain Dealer close to 10 years ago.

EDIT: Really interesying since OHSAA is looking into starting membership fees for their schools now and that's mentioned in this...

 
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westa-k-ron1

Well-known member
I don't think there will ever be an answer for this. Plus, if there is a valid change of residency I don't know that there needs to be a fix. People move all the time for a variety of reason. Should the OHSAA have 1,000s of hearings to review every move that takes place and the "true" reason behind the move for every sport?

Any attempt to fully fix the competitive balance issue would require the OHSAA to create 20+ divisions to account for all the variety of school district combinations.

1. Size
2. Public vs Private
3. Open Enrollment - Statewide - Big City
4. Open Enrollment - Statewide - Rural
5. Open Enrollment - Adjoining District - Big City
6. Open Enrollment - Adjoining District - Rural
7. Closed Enrollment

A more realistic version would be a public/private tournament split (still play in the regular season). Name a public school state champ and a private school state champ. Have the public and private winners in each division play for the overall state championship. Another level I would offer is an "Open" division that any school can opt into.

Once you try to split it up much more than that it gets a lot more difficult.
This is it in a nutshell, two of the players moved from Senate schools who didnt' even have seaons this year I believe. Richmond is a closed enrollment district so people literally have to move into the district. As you said I would guess the move would be for Rural D 3 or 4 schools to create their own organization/tourny ....but only for basketball....because we know these schools dominate their Divisions in Football, Softball, Baseball, etc.
 

tcgobucks

Well-known member
When talking about private- public split, I keep thinking about this "Tim's Take" from Tim Warsinskey in the Plain Dealer close to 10 years ago.

EDIT: Really interesying since OHSAA is looking into starting membership fees for their schools now and that'smentiined in this...

Member$hip fee$ for $chool$ and now $16 ticket$ for the $tate ba$ketball tourney....man the OH$AA must be running $hort of vacation funds for it'$ top people
 

hammer89

Active member
Member$hip fee$ for $chool$ and now $16 ticket$ for the $tate ba$ketball tourney....man the OH$AA must be running $hort of vacation funds for it'$ top people
Schools can always simply choose to not pay it/not join the OHSAA. if they don't have a problem with how the OHSAA, a private company, operates, dunno why you do.
 

Bball216

Well-known member
People bitch about everything. Richmond Heights does not have open enrollment so they have to live in the district. In years past some of their kids came from VASJ and lived in the district. It was only a matter of time before the haters of the private schools started complaining about the urban publics. Richmond Heights is a small public school who happens to attract good basketball players. Get over it. I dont hear anybody complaining when Kirtland and others beat them by 60 in football. You are always going to have tough urban schools in the lower divisions. Just because they have D1 players does not mean they have to play up. In the past 10 years some of the best teams in Ohio have been in lower divisions - VASJ, LCC, Cornerstone, Richmond Heights, John Glenn, Lutheran East, SVSM, etc.
 

sug00

Member
Their is really no good Solution to this Issue. JMO if you win your District 3 seasons in a Row the following season you should be moved up a division.
 

Carol Danvers

Active member
Just look at all the transfers the last 7-10 years and it's clear that AAU teammates are choosing to team up at high schools. Mentor has 4 kids playing together from the same AAU team. You see it at Lutheran East and many others. If these kids are doing this legally then there is nothing to do unless the rules are changed. But a stud from Aurora can go to St Ed and start 4 years too. Some coaches take advantage of open enrollment and some don't.
AOC is run out of Richmond Hts and their new gym. I think grades 3-9. If a kid playing for that AAU program wants to play for that coach in high school then he can if he's following the rules. Comparing Kirtland football to Richmond Hts. basketball is funny. I'm sure nobody likes the 60-0 beatdowns, but move-ins into KIrtland are a rarity. Poor comparison. Not sure how "urban" Richmond Hts is. Does that make Highland Hts urban?
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
CB doesn't work and fails to achieve it's purpose.

They should either just allow schools to move up by choice or add a 5th division that's "open" to anyone wanting to take a shot at the best competition. That's the best anyone can realistically hope for in regards to the small urban publics and privates, and as I mentioned in a girl's thread about Africentric, some of the small rural publics that dominate the field on the girl's side, like the 40+ point beat down in one of the D4 girls state semifinals earlier this week.
 
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westa-k-ron1

Well-known member
So should the small urban publics and privates who get get killed in football(and baseball, softball,etc) year in and year out get their own division?
 

Insane92

Well-known member
So should the small urban publics and privates who get get killed in football(and baseball, softball,etc) year in and year out get their own division?
No ones saying that should happen. We are focusing on one sport that suddenly becomes better very quickly because multiple kids move in to play that said sport and if that becomes the norm and “super HS teams” form every year that is normal and “balanced” to you? While other teams do not have that happen regardless of sport. And people wonder why state tournament attendance goes down every year...
 

jdemell2

New member
People bitch about everything. Richmond Heights does not have open enrollment so they have to live in the district. In years past some of their kids came from VASJ and lived in the district. It was only a matter of time before the haters of the private schools started complaining about the urban publics. Richmond Heights is a small public school who happens to attract good basketball players. Get over it. I dont hear anybody complaining when Kirtland and others beat them by 60 in football. You are always going to have tough urban schools in the lower divisions. Just because they have D1 players does not mean they have to play up. In the past 10 years some of the best teams in Ohio have been in lower divisions - VASJ, LCC, Cornerstone, Richmond Heights, John Glenn, Lutheran East, SVSM, etc.
There is a HUGE difference between mentioning Kirtland and Richmond Hts. in the same sentence. 100% of Kirtland football players come from the city of Kirtland having grown up 100%. RH has I believe one starter that has been there all 4 years. HS basketball is a joke in regards to programs bringing together AAU teams. That's not what HS basketball is about. There are a few others besides RH, Mentor bringing in 3-5 new players that past 3 years, St V, LE. These teams have kids that didn't choose the school based of geography or academics. The moved to the district to play basketball. Girls volleyball is pretty close also! When you have an enrollment of 96 boys like RH do you really think with those numbers you can put that type of team on the floor every year? Competitive Balance worked for a short while but people found loop holes and for those that wanted to go play for top teams they just moved to different apartments or relocated to a different city. They didn't do this for the purpose of having a diploma from that school system. Your point about some of the best teams these past 10 years coming from lower divisions is exactly my point they happened to have a coach/system that brought these kids in for one purpose. Competitive Balance should have been properly implemented so these programs played another Div up. Again it was a legal, just people found loop holes.
Lastly, these teams you mentions were very very talents with a bunch of good boys. They just didn't develop and become a team that they were from Freshmen to Seniors.
 

HomeRun10

Member
People bitch about everything. Richmond Heights does not have open enrollment so they have to live in the district. In years past some of their kids came from VASJ and lived in the district. It was only a matter of time before the haters of the private schools started complaining about the urban publics. Richmond Heights is a small public school who happens to attract good basketball players. Get over it. I dont hear anybody complaining when Kirtland and others beat them by 60 in football. You are always going to have tough urban schools in the lower divisions. Just because they have D1 players does not mean they have to play up. In the past 10 years some of the best teams in Ohio have been in lower divisions - VASJ, LCC, Cornerstone, Richmond Heights, John Glenn, Lutheran East, SVSM, etc.
you literally listed only a couple public schools in those smaller schools. You don't find it fishy that they get the players they get? I mean I understand the cost of housing in some areas in Richmond is not that expensive and easy to get, my thing would be is are they actually "living" at the address they are putting down. I am also sure the league would be happy to get rid of Richmond Heights instead of beating them by 60 in everything else
 
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