Recommendations for cross country state meet?

Rohbino

Active member
On the OATCCC website this is stated:

Please send recommendations for the Cross Country State Meet to:
Andy Cox
Thomas Worthington High School
614-450-6289
acox@wscloud.org

What, exactly, does "recommendations" mean in this context? Recommendations to improve the meet or recommendations to move the meet? I'm hoping that it's the latter. Is this a topic that is currently being discussed and something that the OATCCC is looking to approach the OHSAA with?

Many would like to see the meet moved elsewhere and this is a topic that has probably been beaten to death ever since the meet left Scioto. When it was discussed at some point not long ago I thought I remembered someone stating that the OHSAA has a long contract with NT Raceway and any talk of moving the meet is just supposition at this point.
 
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I heard a rumor today that they are looking for a new site. My eastern Ohio people tell me that NTR has new ownership who is allowing some sort of drive through Christmas display like Oglebay. They are setting up in October and the displays will interfere in some areas like the team camps and just be a distraction in others. The notice was too late for OHSAA to move this year but they are looking for a new site for the the future if needed. There was also some rumblings about race sites metioned on this forum. I don't want to volunteer any more than this since my source is 3rd or 4th hand.
 

psycho_dad

Active member
OH GREAT!!! One of my suggestions was to add a drive through Christmas display. SWEET. I was hoping for a haunted cross country course with hayrides going on at the same time as the races, but at least we will have Christmas displays.
 

JAVMAN83

Active member
Is there nothing in the Granville/Newark area that might work for the State XC meet? Beautiful area of Ohio, and not too far from Columbus.
 

Rohbino

Active member
Cedarville would work just fine
Cedarville is mentioned whenever the discussion of moving the state meet is brought up. It's a great course and would be a great venue for the state meet but it seems as if the issue that is often discussed is accessibility. It's not that it's hard to get to. The problem everyone mentions is that if you're coming from the north, down from I-70, it's a bit of a drive on rt 72. Coming up from the south, from I-71, it would be even worse on 35 & 72. Everyone seems to think that the traffic would be horrendous. A lack of nearby hotels may be another consideration.

That said, why do all divisions need to run on the same day? The largest schools, D1, that would presumably bring the most people with them, could run on Friday or Saturday. The D2 & D3 schools could run on the other day of either Friday or Saturday. Have the D2 schools run in the morning on that day and the D3 schools run in the afternoon. This would or should alleviate parking and congestion/traffic issues.

Other venues that could work might be the course at the Clark County Fairgrounds east of Dayton near Springfield. It seems like there would be enough parking available and it is very accessible with the entrance being only about a ¼ mile off of I-70.

Back in prehistoric times when Psycho dad ran and Kent Roosevelt was destroying everyone, Ohio State's north golf course in Upper Arlington was used as the state venue. This year Ohio State is hosting the B1G championships on that course on Sunday, November 3, one day after the high school state meet. Parking would probably be an issue but, again, why do all divisions need to compete on the same day?

Lastly, the University of Akron has a dedicated course at Silver Creek Metro Park in the Norton/Wadsworth area. Parking is probably too limited, though. It would probably even be too limited with the meets being held on different days.
 
BGSU turned their golf course into a dedicated CC course. Plenty of parking the course actually touches I75 so access is easy. Hotels are not plentiful but not that long of drive to Toledo and Findlay. It would be a long drive from SE but not many schools from that area make it to state meet.
 

psycho_dad

Active member
BGSU turned their golf course into a dedicated CC course. Plenty of parking the course actually touches I75 so access is easy. Hotels are not plentiful but not that long of drive to Toledo and Findlay. It would be a long drive from SE but not many schools from that area make it to state meet.
TOO WINDY!!! I think that would be a great place.
 

BeaverNation

New member
With the new dedicated cross country course at BGSU, plenty of parking next to the football stadium and easy access off I-75, it should at least get consideration to host the state meet.
 

ccrunner609

Active member
I know that Mike Chatfield and Finishtiming has a course in Clark county that has all the hallmarks of what the state meet directors want. It has generous parking, grandstands, rolling grass course and not to bad of a location for the rest of the state.
 

Percidae

Member
Is there nothing in the Granville/Newark area that might work for the State XC meet? Beautiful area of Ohio, and not too far from Columbus.
Legend Valley? - a little further east of NTR right off I-70.
Hartford Fair Grounds? - Likely won't work due to access road issues.
Frontier Ranch? - Not sure this is still operating. Also may have road access issues but they certainly have had very large events there inthe past.
 
"Back in prehistoric times when Psycho dad ran and Kent Roosevelt was destroying everyone, Ohio State's north golf course in Upper Arlington was used as the state venue."
Prehistoric times. I remember running the state meet on a golf course in 74 and 75 but can't prehistorically remember exactly where that golf course was. (sigh) Do remember sneaking into the horseshoe my sophomore year the night before the state meet with my non-top 7 teammates and playing football on the field before we got thrown out.
 

said_aouita

Active member
I know that Mike Chatfield and Finishtiming has a course in Clark county that has all the hallmarks of what the state meet directors want. It has generous parking, grandstands, rolling grass course and not to bad of a location for the rest of the state.
Really hope they move it here. Definitely an ideal Ohio location, it's only about 20 minutes from the I-70/I-75 intersection.
 

Percidae

Member
Do you have a course map to share? From the video it does not look to be very spectator friendly. I would say that is a fairly important consideration.
 

EuclidandViren

Active member
The ideal would be (in any order):

(1) Can you charge for admission?
(2) accessibility for large crowds of 10,000+ to view the race
(3) restrooms on-site
(4) concessions on site
(5) Water on site
(6) The parking lot of 10,000 for vehicles, school buses, and campers.
(7) Course sustainability of 6 races without a slop fest- drainage.
(8) handicap accessibility
(9) Electricity in multiple locations
(10) Permanent barricades keeping back the spectators in congested areas from the course.
 

SOTT

Active member
The ideal would be (in any order):

(1) Can you charge for admission?
(2) accessibility for large crowds of 10,000+ to view the race
(3) restrooms on-site
(4) concessions on site
(5) Water on site
(6) The parking lot of 10,000 for vehicles, school buses, and campers.
(7) Course sustainability of 6 races without a slop fest- drainage.
(8) handicap accessibility
(9) Electricity in multiple locations
(10) Permanent barricades keeping back the spectators in congested areas from the course.
I agree that the OHSAA has progression of needs similar to what you laid out...but 10,000+ spectators doesn't necessitate parking for 10,000+ vehicles.
 

psycho_dad

Active member
Doyt L Perry stadium has handled over 30k and can handle 23k easily.

CC fans are not the type that won't pay, so being able to collect money for admission would be easy enough. In fact, if they were smart, they would set something up to be able to pre-pay online.
 

SOTT

Active member
Doyt L Perry stadium has handled over 30k and can handle 23k easily.

CC fans are not the type that won't pay, so being able to collect money for admission would be easy enough. In fact, if they were smart, they would set something up to be able to pre-pay online.
I think the pre-pay feature was available last year.
 

EuclidandViren

Active member
The point to my original post.
The BGSU course now is an old golf course next to a university with 1 side facing the high way.
The 3 other sides each about 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile with no fencing or barriers to keep people from walking onto the course without paying. OHSAA will never go for that.
The stadium separates the parking from the course and then another two practice fields. That is a good 1/2 mile walk for spectators.
There are no restrooms besides in the football stadium- which is away from most of the course.
There is no electricity except in the football stadium.
Another large factor is that there are no permanent barriers for the spectators to stay behind. OHSAA would have to do a lot of work with cheap fencing throughout the entire course.
The largest factor besides the fencing is the stadium viewing area. OHSAA has this in their mind that they need a location including stands to view the race and finish line. This makes it enjoyable for the spectators especially the non-XC fans and the elderly.

Now if OHSAA purchased this land and made all of these improvements--that would be sweet.
 

SOTT

Active member
Ultimately, I would LOVE to see OHSAA purchase property and make it into a great championship venue like Terre Haute. I don't think it's a very plausible idea based on the way the OHSAA seems to operate in regards to our sport, but that would be ideal.
 

said_aouita

Active member
Do you have a course map to share? From the video it does not look to be very spectator friendly. I would say that is a fairly important consideration.
Can't find a course map, but did come across these pictures from the fairgrounds FB page. Personally speaking, I'm fine with spectators having to move a bit, especially at the state meet.


 

psycho_dad

Active member
It was stated that BGSU is making it a dedicated CC facility. People aren't animals, it's not necessary to have the entire facility fenced off. Not sure that sneaking into a CC race is something that happens much. I went to BG, and despise the place for doing away with one of the most successful sports in the history of the school. Doing away with track and field is a joke. It would upset me that they ever make another dime off of me, but I ran that course many many times and it has the potential of being a premier championship CC facility. It could be what I envision the kids deserve for the best meet of the year. There is enough land to have concessions galore. Even the use of the Stadium would be impressive. Training facilities. A little effort and it could be the best facility in the nation.

This should be a full court press to make this the #1 cross country facility in the country. There is already water and electric there. Could easliy build permanent restroom facilities that could be used for baseball, tennis and softball. could even grade an area so that a finish could have sloped spectator area where people could see over people in front of them. Could have a limited seating area for elderly and handicapped spectators. Could bid for NCAA championships. NAIA etc. could have a facility where like a carnival, they charge fees for concessions of all sorts. It has great access. It's ideal. It has built in irrigation, so that the course could always have beautiful grass.

I'd pay $20 to get in gate or no gate.
 
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Champions Park (Clark County Fairgrounds) XC Course. 1300m in front of grandstands then head out around lake that has a dedicated spectator loop beside the course the whole way. Enter back from lake and finish last 1200m in front of the grandstands again. last 120 m is directly in front of the grandstands with the ability to put more grandstands for viewing on both sides. Large hill at turn around point at lake at almost exactly the half way point. Course is still set up from last 2 meets there last week and will be setup until november 12 for usatf state meet. If anyone wants to see it and the facility just contact me and I can unlock it. Split points were used for our county meet at 1 mile, 2k, 2 Mile, and 3600m.
Grandstands will seat approx. 3500. Course will allow spectators without interfering with runners as it can be fenced to allow 2 access points for crossing the course other than that it is fenced and can charge admission. Parking for 10,000 people is not a problem. Hookups for campers and multiple entrances for a dedicated school transport that can avoid congestion. dedicated registration building and full PA System for entire area. Working on camera system to play feed from out on course back to large video board, Major intersection with 4 lanes of traffic coming from I-70, it is about 1/4 mile from interstate and multiple ways into the facility. Terry Oerhtman has seen it and says it will work but cant seem to get OHSAA to come look.
3926
 
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JAVMAN83

Active member
Champions Park (Clark County Fairgrounds) XC Course. 1300m in front of grandstands then head out around lake that has a dedicated spectator loop beside the course the whole way. Enter back from lake and finish last 1200m in front of the grandstands again. last 120 m is directly in front of the grandstands with the ability to put more grandstands for viewing on both sides. Large hill at turn around point at lake at almost exactly the half way point. Course is still set up from last 2 meets there last week and will be setup until november 12 for usatf state meet. If anyone wants to see it and the facility just contact me and I can unlock it. Split points were used for our county meet at 1 mile, 2k, 2 Mile, and 3600m.
Grandstands will seat approx. 3500. Course will allow spectators without interfering with runners as it can be fenced to allow 2 access points for crossing the course other than that it is fenced and can charge admission. Parking for 10,000 people is not a problem. Hookups for campers and multiple entrances for a dedicated school transport that can avoid congestion. dedicated registration building and full PA System for entire area. Working on camera system to play feed from out on course back to large video board, Major intersection with 4 lanes of traffic coming from I-70, it is about 1/4 mile from interstate and multiple ways into the facility. Terry Oerhtman has seen it and says it will work but cant seem to get OHSAA to come look.

Interesting photo, Mike. I can't help but notice that filled in, but still obvious OVAL that used to be where the start/finish area is. What's the story with that former oval?
 
That was an old horse tack but is all grass now. The whole course is on a gravel pit and drains very quickly. Last year when state meet was cancelled we actually practiced on that day and drove on the course with a vehicle and left very little tracks.
 
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