Recommendations for cross country state meet?

EuclidandViren

Active member
The problem with Clark County that I foresee is the middle portions of the race. The runners leave for over half the race. Can you view them at all?

I am no one but:
I would recommend trying to do 2 smaller loops away from the stands.
I wonder if you could come back to the stands around 2k-3k and then go back out again?
Is it possible to do something along the lines of a 3 leaf clover?

What is on the other side of the stands or the west side by the lake? Could that be a smaller loop at the beginning to help make the larger loop smaller? So the runners can do the small loop at the beginning and come back. Do the larger loop come back and then the smaller loop again before finishing. That would give the stands 4-5 viewing opportunities instead of just 2 viewing opportunities.

I say this if you can do it without runners being crossed over or lapped. It is a very delicate situation with making it an interesting and challenging course while at the same time trying to please the spectators.
 

yj_runfan

Well-known member
I am not a fan of creating a layout that passes the bleachers a maximum number of times just to accommodate grandma and grandpa. People that don't attend a CC meet all year shouldn't be catered to for the biggest meet of the year. When the kids would run through the track at Scioto those people didn't even know what they were looking at. It was just a spectacle to them. Give people access to as much of the course as possible and let them decide how much effort they want to put into it. That's a big part of what makes it a great sport IMO.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
That was an old horse tack but is all grass now. The whole course is on a gravel pit and drains very quickly. Last year when state meet was cancelled we actually practiced on that day and drove on the course with a vehicle and left very little tracks.
The Wu Tang Clan approves.
 
The problem with creating more opportunities in front of the stands is now the course has become a track on grass course by having no hills or challenges at all for the runners. The turn around point at the back is a large hill that is at a point in the course that will make or break your race. You would also have trouble with lapping other runners. The plan is to have cameras at a few points back on the loop that will feed a large video board there. We have experimented with it this year at a few meets feeding our large board but plan to have a large led trailer in the near future.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
The BGSU site is a blank canvas that can be laid out anyway they want. It's a golf course, so the drainage is good to start with. Throw in the constant 30 mph wind, and it stays nice and dry. It's capable of handling over 20k people at a single event which will be perfect in 10 years when CC numbers double and Football numbers are cut in half.
 

Denizen

New member
I am not a fan of creating a layout that passes the bleachers a maximum number of times just to accommodate grandma and grandpa. People that don't attend a CC meet all year shouldn't be catered to for the biggest meet of the year. When the kids would run through the track at Scioto those people didn't even know what they were looking at. It was just a spectacle to them. Give people access to as much of the course as possible and let them decide how much effort they want to put into it. That's a big part of what makes it a great sport IMO.
I hear you but it's not just grandma and grandpa who turn out for the state meet. It's A LOT of student peers who might not come out to any other meets, and might not know how to negotiate getting out onto the course. The question I would turn back at you is, do you want to dissuade grandma and grandpa and the sophomore class from coming to this one, unique championship meet?
 

said_aouita

Active member
I hear you but it's not just grandma and grandpa who turn out for the state meet. It's A LOT of student peers who might not come out to any other meets, and might not know how to negotiate getting out onto the course. The question I would turn back at you is, do you want to dissuade grandma and grandpa and the sophomore class from coming to this one, unique championship meet?
I think grand parents and classmates would attend the unique championship meet, either way. They don't care about the course and are attending only to watch the competitor. Hopefully the coach or athlete themselves know the course layout before the championship meet, and can make recommendations where to stand/park, etc.....
 

yj_runfan

Well-known member
I hear you but it's not just grandma and grandpa who turn out for the state meet. It's A LOT of student peers who might not come out to any other meets, and might not know how to negotiate getting out onto the course. The question I would turn back at you is, do you want to dissuade grandma and grandpa and the sophomore class from coming to this one, unique championship meet?
There’s a world of difference between dissuading them and tailoring the meet to suit them by making sure the race can be watched from bleachers.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
That's funny! Sort of hurtful, but funny. Next year, I swear I'm going to lose weight. You as a camel! That is perfect.
 

ccrunner609

Active member
After running Cedarville for districts.....it needs to be the SW Regional. It does not need to be ran back to back weeks though
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
That's funny! Sort of hurtful, but funny. Next year, I swear I'm going to lose weight. You as a camel! That is perfect.
I was referring more to your jolly disposition rather than any physiological features. That's what pillows, wigs, and fake beards are for. My back is bad enough that I may look like a camel by the time Xmas season reaches full swing (which should be after Thanksgiving, but the media and retailers won't stand for that).
 

grange45

Member
I’m not sure this is 100% factual but after talking to a couple of officials and oatccc helpers at the state meet they said that the Christmas display was a breach of their contract with ohsaa and they could walk from their 4 year contract. Anyone know if this is true?
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
I do not know. Here is my advice. Forget about watching the state meet like you would want to. Resign yourself to the fact that you are just going to stay in one place and see them come by you 3 times. I still hate that the start cannot be seen and that they just all of a sudden appear, but if you just relax and understand that it's going to be a very passive experience, it's much better. Pay your $10 plop yourself in one spot and enjoy. That's what I did today. 10 times better that way. Have your team score 37 might help a bit too.
 
Anyone attend the B1G Champs at OSU? That meet handled a huge crowd well - think space! - and the setting/course was fantastic. Rolling terrain, grass, trees, a pond, etc, etc, and even some portable bleachers for the immobile fans.

The massive numbers of college kids flying around the course to root on their teams, lining the course with other fans for 800+ meter stretches at times, made me sad for the huge groups of spirited high school fans confined and resigned to yell from high in the old bleachers at NTR. In a space/setting like this, you don't need enormous bleachers - the vast majority of fans want to be out on the course, and with some careful course designing (loops, some repeated sections) you could have a site that caters to all, giving fans real opportunites to watch the races, and the athletes a chance to run something other than down-n-backs on a delapidated drag strip.

So... OSU hosts multiple OHSAA championships. Field hockey, track, wrestling, and so on. Wrestling is a multi-day event, in part to accomodate huge crowds. Would fans to willing to make modifications to the state XC meet schedule (either spread over 2 days, or 2 hour gaps between divisions) in order to make a setting like this feasible, despite the challenges parking may bring?

That said... there was a very healthy crowd at B1G champs, and parking wasn't a complaint being tossed around.

The B1G meet overall couldnt have been a more authentic XC experience. I cant see why we can't make something like this happen for the HS kids.
 

trevo45

Member
I was at the B1G meet this morning and I thought it was awesome. That course is great and was a ton of fun to watch on. Not sure how the runners felt but personally I wouldn't have minded racing on it. A little repetitive but worth it to have the course lined with people for almost half the race. I think it would have helped if they just set up a few bleachers along the finish since everyone is crammed on one side of the finish line and it was 5-6 people deep for the last 400m, but overall it was really well run. I don't know how they decide who hosts, but hopefully its back because I loved being able to see some good cross country without traveling.

I think a big issue with having the state meet there is tearing up the course. State meet has way more runners than a college conference meet and would definitely damage the grass. And i'm sure that the B1G can afford to pay for any damage it might cause to the course, as their budget is just a little bit bigger than OHSAA's. But I can't think of any other issues/downsides. Its more centrally located in the state and there's plenty of parking. They have lots of experience hosting big events as I know they have some pretty big golf tournaments.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
My guess is there is 5 times the people that attend the high school meet.

I still don't know how the OHSAA loses money on CC. Can someone break down the numbers? I don't have that kind of patience anymore.
 

Altor

Well-known member
I still don't know how the OHSAA loses money on CC. Can someone break down the numbers? I don't have that kind of patience anymore.
As has been pointed out many times...I don't believe this has been the case since they started charging admission at the Regional meets. It used to be true, and people just believe it now because it was true for so long.
 

ENA2

Member
I don't think the OHSAA was in the RED for CC since they started charging at Regionals. I agree that they should/could make a lot of money as the costs should not be that great. However, the costs would be for the State Meet and the 4 Regional Meets. They include: 1. Renting the facility (for State - should not be costs for Regionals) 2. Officials - not sure how many, but seems to be plenty. 3. Workers - ticket takers, parking attendents, crowd control (about 50+ people per site) 4. Police - for traffic and in the facility. 5. Awards - for State and Regionals.

the OHSAA should also get a cut from the T-shirts sales and the Concessions. Also, IMO they should get something from sponsorship for the signs in front of the grandstand - Chocolate Milk etc. Finally, the Pre-season and Middle School meet shuld make some money too.
 

ENA2

Member
Once again, Terry Oertmann and his crew did a great Job with the State Meet. If/When the site changes, the next Meet Manager will have some big shoes to fill. What an undertaking. IMO the right leadership/manager is just as important as the right course or facility.
 

KevinL

Member
I was at the B1G meet this morning and I thought it was awesome. That course is great and was a ton of fun to watch on. Not sure how the runners felt but personally I wouldn't have minded racing on it. A little repetitive but worth it to have the course lined with people for almost half the race. I think it would have helped if they just set up a few bleachers along the finish since everyone is crammed on one side of the finish line and it was 5-6 people deep for the last 400m, but overall it was really well run. I don't know how they decide who hosts, but hopefully its back because I loved being able to see some good cross country without traveling.

I think a big issue with having the state meet there is tearing up the course. State meet has way more runners than a college conference meet and would definitely damage the grass. And i'm sure that the B1G can afford to pay for any damage it might cause to the course, as their budget is just a little bit bigger than OHSAA's. But I can't think of any other issues/downsides. Its more centrally located in the state and there's plenty of parking. They have lots of experience hosting big events as I know they have some pretty big golf tournaments.
From a runners perspective, the course was too narrow. Runners that got stuck at the back had trouble moving through the group. OHSAA (186 in D1 Boys) has nearly twice the runners per race as B1G (106 in the mens race).

Hosting the meet rotates. I have attended the last 5 at Northwestern, Minnesota, Indiana, Nebraska, and now OSU. Since Northwestern hosts, even the schools with women only (Northwestern & Maryland) are in the rotation. So expect it back at OSU around 2033.
 
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psycho_dad

Well-known member
As has been pointed out many times...I don't believe this has been the case since they started charging admission at the Regional meets. It used to be true, and people just believe it now because it was true for so long.
Am I thinking track? I could have sworn that when the last financials came out, people said it showed a loss.

Here are my suggestions. More concession trailers away from the grand stands a bit. 3 different announcers. 1 for awards. 1 for setting up the next race and 1 for sort of a play by play during the races. Get some women involved with that too. 1k, 2k, 3k 4k and finish live results.
 
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