Public vs. Private

Jaws31

Well-known member
God forbid poorer black families in the City of Toledo have a choice other than the public Toledo City Schools. I wonder if Wayne Local, Ottawa Hills, Springfield Local, Sylvania and Washington Local, all closed enrollment, would be willing to go open enrollment and provide these poorer kids a safe environment for their education.
This is spot on. I am usually very hesitant to bri g race into this but bottom line thats is what it comes down to. I'm sure they'll say its BS but if St Vs(which is what started this whole thing again) TCC, or any other school won with white guys this wouldn't be that big of an issue. Privates giving kids from terrible schools a chance on being better really bothers some.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
This is spot on. I am usually very hesitant to bri g race into this but bottom line thats is what it comes down to. I'm sure they'll say its BS but if St Vs(which is what started this whole thing again) TCC, or any other school won with white guys this wouldn't be that big of an issue. Privates giving kids from terrible schools a chance on being better really bothers some.
Disingenuity bothers some. Apparently not you. Central Catholic is not giving any poor kid an entrance pass to their school. They're picking and choosing. Perhaps that's Christian in your mind and I doubt you've ever hesitated to bring race into anything. That's conjecture but since you led with some, back atcha. Mostly they are picking and choosing successful matriculation of those "terrible schools." If those schools are so bad, how are the private schools finding students prepared well enough for those fancy-dancy private classes? AND they've not shown themselves to provide a better academic environment even for the ones they pick and choose. Data works against them.

The beef here is with supporting a private company with public dollars that doesn't have to justify the use of those dollars. That doesn't make thier contracted services available to all. And then tries to imply they somehow produce a superior product. If St V, Central, whomever wanted to open a public school, they can do that. They can open enroll the schools they have in place. They choose not to. Guess why? They can't do it as well as those "terrible" schools.


Facts and apples to apples comparison say it repeatedly. In general, the private schools are failing economically, academically and morally. When they are willing to open enroll, let in all God's children, they'll have no opposition for MY tax dollars. Perfectly willing to give them a chance to prove they can do it better.

Would you like to try another spin, one that uses facts? Logic? Christian reasoning?
 
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CCHS93

Active member
Yeah, you're right, I clearly have no idea how it works. Catholic schools win at a much higher rate than do the public schools, but that's merely a coincidence. Stop making excuses for the private schools. I've seen Central Catholic poach from the Toledo City League and Clay for decades, and people like you continue to defend it.

I'm not going to pretend I'm unbiased about this, but for God's sake, stop making excuses for the rich and powerful. Did you know that if we didn't have CB, Central Catholic would be a Division IV school in football? Think about that for a second. And Central's nickname in the Toledo area is Central Public on account of the fact that many of their students, especially the athletes, go to school there for free.
The Central public moniker has always been insulting. CCHS has always had a higher percentage of minorities, even in the 80's and 90's. I think when people have the image of Catholic schools they think of preppy white kids. Because Central is more diverse and, typically, the black population is not Catholic, the thought is that the black kids are voucher kids or there for sports. As the black population about the voucher program and youll find it has a lot of support.
 

CCHS93

Active member
Disingenuity bothers some. Apparently not you. Central Catholic is not giving any poor kid an entrance pass to their school. They're picking and choosing. Perhaps that's Christian in your mind and I doubt you've ever hesitated to bring race into anything. That's conjecture but since you led with some, back atcha. Mostly they are picking and choosing successful matriculation of those "terrible schools." If those schools are so bad, how are the private schools finding students prepared well enough for those fancy-dancy private classes? AND they've not shown themselves to provide a better academic environment even for the ones they pick and choose. Data works against them.

The beef here is with supporting a private company with public dollars that doesn't have to justify the use of those dollars. That doesn't make thier contracted services available to all. And then tries to imply they somehow produce a superior product. If St V, Central, whomever wanted to open a public school, they can do that. They can open enroll the schools they have in place. They choose not to. Guess why? They can't do it as well as those "terrible" schools.

Would you like to try another spin, one that uses facts? Logic? Christian reasoning?
Wrong. Do you wander the halls of Central? You only see the kids on the field or court. There are plenty of non athlete kids from disadvantaged backgrounds that go there.
 

CC Track Fan

Active member
This is spot on. I am usually very hesitant to bri g race into this but bottom line thats is what it comes down to. I'm sure they'll say its BS but if St Vs(which is what started this whole thing again) TCC, or any other school won with white guys this wouldn't be that big of an issue. Privates giving kids from terrible schools a chance on being better really bothers some.
The race part is BS. Talk to Hockey/Swimming/Volleyball parents/coaches/fans you will hear the exactly same complaints as basketball/football against the privates. It just isn't a level playing field. Contrary to what the media wants you to believe not everything has to do with race.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
The race part is BS. Talk to Hockey/Swimming/Volleyball parents/coaches/fans you will hear the exactly same complaints as basketball/football against the privates. It just isn't a level playing field. Contrary to what the media wants you to believe not everything has to do with race.
Hmm. That’s weird. There’s an entire rant by a poster questioning the Catholicism of black SVSM players in the basketball forum.
 

CC Track Fan

Active member
Hmm. That’s weird. There’s an entire rant by a poster questioning the Catholicism of black SVSM players in the basketball forum.
You think most of St. X swimmer are catholic? They are there for the swim program. Black was only brought up here at the end.

Contrary to what the media wants you to believe not everything has to do with race.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
You think most of St. X swimmer are catholic? They are there for the swim program. Black was only brought up here at the end.

Contrary to what the media wants you to believe not everything has to do with race.
Your “not everything has to do with race” t-shirt has people asking questions already answered by your shirt.
 

Raylan_Givens

Well-known member
Once had a guy who worked with me who defined himself as an "aggressive Agnostic" with a devout Catholic wife & 2 daughters in Catholic school. When he & his wife met with the HS administrator prior to his daughter starting high school, his lack of faith was questioned. His response - "I don't have to believe in God to believe in the quality of a Catholic education." She got in.

What does that mean to this conversation? Not much at all, I just like that story because it reminds me that most folks just want what is best for their kids. As far as how other people feel about it....who gives a rip.
 

L Hand

Well-known member
The beef here is with supporting a private company with public dollars that doesn't have to justify the use of those dollars. That doesn't make thier contracted services available to all.
This sentence makes zero sense - I mean ZERO.

Oh, and for the record, your beef is that the public school you cheer for as an adult can't beat a private school and it makes you mad.
 

NWORocket

New member
God forbid poorer black families in the City of Toledo have a choice other than the public Toledo City Schools. I wonder if Wayne Local, Ottawa Hills, Springfield Local, Sylvania and Washington Local, all closed enrollment, would be willing to go open enrollment and provide these poorer kids a safe environment for their education.
I'm all for kids having the option of going to a better school. My brother went to St. John's and got a great education there. I just think some of these schools recruit players, and that's alright, but let's not pretend there isn't an unfair advantage that parochial schools have over the rest of the academic community.
 

TCSoup

Well-known member
I'm all for kids having the option of going to a better school. My brother went to St. John's and got a great education there. I just think some of these schools recruit players, and that's alright, but let's not pretend there isn't an unfair advantage that parochial schools have over the rest of the academic community.
It makes you wonder why. The simple answer is you just can't throw tax payer money at a Social Economical problem and solve the worlds problems. Right or Wrong each and every parent has a right and moral responsibility to do whats right for their child and give them the best opportunity to succeed. Take the Wins, Losses and the emotions of that out of it and its very clear to see and understand. Regardless of Sports.
 

L Hand

Well-known member
I'm all for kids having the option of going to a better school. My brother went to St. John's and got a great education there. I just think some of these schools recruit players, and that's alright, but let's not pretend there isn't an unfair advantage that parochial schools have over the rest of the academic community.
Don’t know of any private school fan/supporter that would claim that private schools don’t have advantages that most public schools don’t have. But there is no reason to single out private schools - there are plenty of PUBLIC schools that have advantages that many other public schools don’t have.
 

MickeyMantle

Well-known member
The truth is that private schools have a ridiculously unfair advantage over public schools. However, I will acknowledge that open enrollment has really helped public schools as of late. But anyone pretending that Catholic schools don't recruit the f--k out of public-school athletes is kidding themselves.

Screw the Catholic schools. Them being so dominant is like the Miami Heat (with LeBron James) and Golden State (with Kevin Durant) dominating the NBA like they did recently.. What's the point of competition if the best players are all on the same team?

There are 831 OHSAA member schools—700 public (84%) and 131 (16%) non-public.
From the beginning of the 1999-2000 school year through the 2009-10 school year, there were 616 state championships. The private schools won 275 (45%) of these championships.
Breaking this down, it looks like this:

Football—66 state championships—31 (47%) won by non-public schools
Volleyball—44 state championships—28 (63%) won by non-public schools
Boys Soccer—33 state championships—15 (45%) won by non-public schools
Girls Soccer—22 state championships—11 (50%) won by non-public schools
Boys Basketball—44 state championships—14 (31%) won by non-public schools
Girls Basketball—44 state championships—23 (52%) won by non-public schools
Wrestling—30 state championships—21 (70%) won by non-public schools
Baseball—40 state championships—20 (50%) won by non-public schools
Softball—40 state championships—3 (1%) won by non-public schools

Based on these statistics, it appears that there is an inequity in the OHSAA tournament structure.

F--k the private schools.
 

MickeyMantle

Well-known member
But, if you can’t see the inherent advantage of getting to draw kids in from an unlimited sized school “district” I am not really sure what to say?!
Nobody denies that can be an advantage. The fact that they have to charge tuition to exist and many people cannot afford that and many more would rather not pay mostly negates that advantage. It takes a special commitment for most of the families at private schools to make it happen, so it stands to reason that private school athletics programs are pretty good.

The world isn't fair, man. Most of us deal with that pretty well.
 

OBIE-WON-PIEROGI

Well-known member
People who say "I don't want my kid going to Public School X" are only making the problems of Public School X worse.

Privilege in the worst way.

Pull that ladder up behind you quick, someone darker than you might try to climb up behind you!
 

MickeyMantle

Well-known member
People who say "I don't want my kid going to Public School X" are only making the problems of Public School X worse.

Privilege in the worst way.

Pull that ladder up behind you quick, someone darker than you might try to climb up behind you!
I assume you're talking about spreading a perception through words here rather than the action of actually not sending a child to the local public school?
 

ShoelessJoe

Active member
The Public Private debate has nothing to do with race. It is about schools being able to attract players of any color from large population areas. I have no problem with anyone of any race trying to improve their educational situation. I do have a problem with schools attracting players from large population areas and playing in the small school divisions.
 

BGSUGrad

Member
Nobody denies that can be an advantage. The fact that they have to charge tuition to exist and many people cannot afford that and many more would rather not pay mostly negates that advantage. It takes a special commitment for most of the families at private schools to make it happen, so it stands to reason that private school athletics programs are pretty good.

The world isn't fair, man. Most of us deal with that pretty well.
Well that’s interesting you say that. Because for 4+ pages of discussion not one private school supporter has said that. We have been told that privates are in the correct division, they are educating minorities and that it’s really hard for private schools to exist. Never once has a poster said that when it comes to athletics there is an advantage to me had.
Tuition you say? Well 300+ kids at Toledo Central Catholic are using vouchers to cover costs. I personally like the voucher program, but to say a school drawing kids from all of Toledo doesn’t have an advantage and that that advantage should make them a D1 school is silliness.
 

MickeyMantle

Well-known member
Well that’s interesting you say that. Because for 4+ pages of discussion not one private school supporter has said that. We have been told that privates are in the correct division, they are educating minorities and that it’s really hard for private schools to exist. Never once has a poster said that when it comes to athletics there is an advantage to me had.
Tuition you say? Well 300+ kids at Toledo Central Catholic are using vouchers to cover costs. I personally like the voucher program, but to say a school drawing kids from all of Toledo doesn’t have an advantage and that that advantage should make them a D1 school is silliness.
And the private schools are in their proper divisions. In fact, kids from different "districts" are counted as more than one student in order to try to make things "fair." Here's an idea: Get better. Go beat Toledo Central Catholic. School like Massillon, Winton Woods and Colerain have had no trouble competing. But, you know, not everybody gets to be good.
 

OBIE-WON-PIEROGI

Well-known member
I assume you're talking about spreading a perception through words here rather than the action of actually not sending a child to the local public school?
No, if you have a problem with a local public district and you decide to send your kid to a private instead, you're most likely contributing to the very issues you've complained about.
 

OBIE-WON-PIEROGI

Well-known member
The Public Private debate has nothing to do with race. It is about schools being able to attract players of any color from large population areas. I have no problem with anyone of any race trying to improve their educational situation. I do have a problem with schools attracting players from large population areas and playing in the small school divisions.
Iggy, Ed's, and Hoban beg to differ. Those schools are located in extremely diverse parts of Cleveland and Akron yet are far whiter than even the cities as a whole.

If you don't think private schools and many "local" schools were founded and continue to exist because a lot of white people want their kids going to school in the most melanin-free classroom possible, I've got about 100 years of history you could read up on.
 
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