Public vs. Private

DB135

Well-known member
A local radio station had a discussion of private (all-star teams) vs. Public (regular school district) and the advantages of drawing from large private districts vs. open enrollment.

Private schools were found to have 32% of the championships with a very small percentage of all total schools.

One of main points argued against privates was the St. Vincent - St. Mary - Struthers tournament basketball game this year.

The Struthers team was 25 - 0 but was blown out by the Akron team. The moderator felt this showed the disparity between these types of teams and justified open enrollment building all-star teams to be able to compete.

Further discussion pointed out that since this situation had brought on this disparity which had basically destroyed competition for state championships, it should be corrected and not encouraged.
 
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Jaws31

Well-known member
A local radio station had a discussion of private (all-star teams) vs. Public (regular school district) and the advantages of drawing from large private districts vs. open enrollment.

Private schools were found to have 32% of the championships with a very small percentage of all total schools.

One of main points argued against privates was the St. Vincent - St. Mary - Struthers tournament basketball game this year.

The Struthers team was 25 - 0 but was blown out by the Akron team. The moderator felt this showed the disparity between these types of teams and justified open enrollment building all-star teams to be able to compete.

Further discussion pointed out that since this situation had brought on this disparity which had basically destroyed competition for state championships, it should be corrected and not encouraged.
Struthers lost because Mahoning Valley basketball isn't very good, plain and simple. They had a great season, 25-1 is a fantastic achievement, but just because you go undefeated against inferior competition doesn't mean you deserve to be crowned state champion.

People that constantly complain and cry about this subject are ridiculous. My school is private and lost in the State Championship in football and the regional final in Basketball to two public schools, one with closed enrollment. Should we demand that the MAC move to their own division or RH play up when their enrollment is 85 boys? No, that would be absurd, just like this constant debate.
 

Spread All Day

Well-known member
To be fair Struthers had two starters that were open enrollment kids so we can’t really say anything. And they didn’t come to Struthers for the education.

edit. They were both move-in ‘s, but they moved in to play. so it’s the same thing to me
 

Bad Blake

Active member
What is St. V’s competitive balance number for basketball? Does CB work different for basketball than it does for football? If the majority of their players went to St V feeder schools then you can’t do anything but tip your cap to them.
 

Termite2

Well-known member
What is St. V’s competitive balance number for basketball?
63
244 enrollment [244+63= 307 for Basketball]

Does CB work different for basketball than it does for football?
Yes
Tier 0 = each student on a particular team’s roster meeting the criteria of this factor, multiplied by 0 (so that number will always be 0) Tier 1 = each student on a particular team’s roster meeting the criteria of this factor, multiplied by 1 (so that number will always be 1) Tier 2 = each student on a particular team’s roster meeting the criteria of this factor, multiplied by the sport specific factor (Football = 3; Soccer, Volleyball, Basketball, Baseball, & Softball = 7)
 

dhsdog06

Well-known member
What is St. V’s competitive balance number for basketball? Does CB work different for basketball than it does for football? If the majority of their players went to St V feeder schools then you can’t do anything but tip your cap to them.
63.

It works the same, except the sport specific multiplier for tier 2 is 7 for basketball and 3 for football.
 

Maple_City_Fan

Well-known member
Had Struthers played a Public who's battle tested, guess what?

Their bass still would have been handed to them. Really has little to do with Public-Private debate.
 

Bad Blake

Active member
Chardon beat Columbus DeSales
Van Wert beat Mentor Lake Catholic
New Bremen beat Warren JFK
Last year we had 3 public schools win over privates.
Agree. But if I’m understanding this right, a team like St V can have an entire lineup of tier 3 recruits and stay in the same division. It seems to me that the multiplier should be relative to average roster size. So a football roster has 60 guys, a basketball roster has 12, the multiplier should be 5x greater in basketball than football. Tier 3 recruits should count for 15 in basketball
 

Harrycrane

Well-known member
Chardon beat Columbus DeSales
Van Wert beat Mentor Lake Catholic
New Bremen beat Warren JFK
Last year we had 3 public schools win over privates.
Run down the past say 20 years . D-1 ? What is the overall playoff record in Catholic vs public . How many of the state titles have been won ? Competitive balance has helped with the previous disparity of catholic vs smaller publics in the lower divisions
 

Spread All Day

Well-known member
According to the Ohio dept of education 540 of the 651 public schools in the state are open enrollment. If you want to be more competitive, at anything, make your school more attractive to families so they bring their kids.
This is an argument you can make regarding oe. OE, at most schools is not for the purposes of athletics. I would say most schools in the state don’t reach out into other communities and try to bring them into their school. I would say however, every private school in the state does this for the sake of their athletics programs.

not saying Struthers is innocent especially with the basketball team this season they are not. But I can understand it for some schools.
 

Blue Jay Fan

Well-known member
This is an argument you can make regarding oe. OE, at most schools is not for the purposes of athletics. I would say most schools in the state don’t reach out into other communities and try to bring them into their school. I would say however, every private school in the state does this for the sake of their athletics programs.

not saying Struthers is innocent especially with the basketball team this season they are not. But I can understand it for some schools.
I'd say the majority of private schools reach out to gain students to keep the doors open. If it helps athletics, great, but if there are no students there is no school and no athletics. Most public schools in this area are open enrollment and some make it well known that they accept students. I've seen advertisements on tv, heard on radio and in local/regional newspapers advertising their school's benefits and an open house.
 

winbypin

Well-known member
Run down the past say 20 years . D-1 ? What is the overall playoff record in Catholic vs public . How many of the state titles have been won ? Competitive balance has helped with the previous disparity of catholic vs smaller publics in the lower divisions
Lower divisions? Aren't they ruled my MAC schools and kirtland?
 

Harrycrane

Well-known member
Lower divisions? Aren't they ruled my MAC schools and kirtland?
Yes they are . A good handful of good Catholics have been moving up divisions over the years when there were 6 divisions you would get some pretty powerful Catholics at the D-5 and even D-6 divisions . { Mooney and Ursuline to name 2} You saw some pretty big blowouts at times . Hartley for instance used to be D-5 not too long ago and is now entrenched in D-3 after spending time in D-4 .
 

Harrycrane

Well-known member
Yes they are . A good handful of good Catholics have been moving up divisions over the years when there were 6 divisions you would get some pretty powerful Catholics at the D-5 and even D-6 divisions . { Mooney and Ursuline to name 2} You saw some pretty big blowouts at times . Hartley for instance used to be D-5 not too long ago and is now entrenched in D-3 after spending time in D-4 .
I'm sure there are plans to address that down the road.

Powerful D-5 or D-6 publics probably aren't going to cry about moving up a division if they are dominating { Kirtland to D-4?}
 

winbypin

Well-known member
Yes they are . A good handful of good Catholics have been moving up divisions over the years when there were 6 divisions you would get some pretty powerful Catholics at the D-5 and even D-6 divisions . { Mooney and Ursuline to name 2} You saw some pretty big blowouts at times . Hartley for instance used to be D-5 not too long ago and is now entrenched in D-3 after spending time in D-4 .
Competitive balance has been in place like 4 years right? MAC has dominated for about a decade or longer I believe.
 

SteelerBacker

Active member
According to the Ohio dept of education 540 of the 651 public schools in the state are open enrollment. If you want to be more competitive, at anything, make your school more attractive to families so they bring their kids.
You willing to pay more taxes to make that happen?
 

Harrycrane

Well-known member
Competitive balance has been in place like 4 years right? MAC has dominated for about a decade or longer I believe.
Aware who is dominating the lowest couple divisions , my point wasn't that the Catholics were winning lately in the lower divisions but that the competitive balance would not allow dominant Catholics to play in divisions solely based on their enrollment numbers . There are a few 'Small Catholics that have challenged and got to finals at the lowest levels but the days of those schools staying in a division for years winning multiple titles is over and won't be able to happen again . They would have to move up as a handful have after winning multiple titles. A couple have gotten a bit larger and moved up over the last 20 years naturally.
 

Harrycrane

Well-known member
Publics have won the last 4 state titles D-4 and D-3 , In D-3 CATHOLICS won 8 straight titles . What changed the last 4 years? In D-4 Before the last 4 years Catholics had won 8 of 12. D-7 is relatively new In 8 years , One Catholic has won the title and the same program lost in the final this year?
 

Harrycrane

Well-known member
You willing to pay more taxes to make that happen?
The idea that open enrollment means most public schools have kids from many different places like Catholics or Privates do is simply not true and it doesn't even the playing field . In most districts just transferring within your OWN district isn't a certainty and if they think if it's just for sports? They disallow it more than not. Kids do seem to be able to go away from Coffman it seems though more than they get to come there from the others . Kids can't just come from anywhere at any time and enroll without living within the district . If anyone knows of some situation where a regular public school has kids from multiple hometowns and who commute to their public schools in any kind of numbers at all please share that with us.
 

Jaws31

Well-known member
You willing to pay more taxes to make that happen?
It doesn't take taxes to improve your school. It takes people who actually want to be successful rather than just have a job. One coach, teacher, band director, etc, that really wants to make a difference can have a huge effect. If parents know that a school is strong in a certain aspect then they will put their kids in that school.
 

Spread All Day

Well-known member
I'd say the majority of private schools reach out to gain students to keep the doors open. If it helps athletics, great, but if there are no students there is no school and no athletics. Most public schools in this area are open enrollment and some make it well known that they accept students. I've seen advertisements on tv, heard on radio and in local/regional newspapers advertising their school's benefits and an open house.
I don’t see any tuba players transferring their sophomore year to a private school. I have seen commercials for usually struggling school districts... and always commercials for the privates.
 
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