Ohio Capital Conference- how are divisions created?

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
i was looking at this league and i am wondering how the divisions are created. is it strictly enrollment? because the divisions aren’t geographically sound, and there are a number of schools that share a district yet are in separate divisions. i would appreciate some insight from those closer to the area.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
What they do is they set the cycles of redrawing to where the divisional alignments stay together for four years. As in, a future divisional alignment is drawn up two years in advance and from the Fall of 20xx to the Spring of 20xx(+4) is however long the divisions run -- e.g. Fall 2020 through Spring 2024 is what we are currently in.

It's not strictly enrollment. What happens is a couple scenarios are drawn up, they're discussed and voted upon by the entire constituency of the OCC. The votes come from the administrators of each HS (not the superintendents.) So, the four Olentangies each have a vote (instead of just one vote) whereas Newark only has one. While, abstractly speaking, it would appear to be a "tyranny of the majority" situation (at first-glance) what levels it out is the fact that the schools largely work in several independent coalitions. It's not always sunshine and rainbows in the room, and there will always be some dissent, but really the goals of marrying good geography*traffic situations and competitive balance are achieved more often than not.
 

933York

Active member
History seems to play into it somewhat. Dublin Coffman, Hilliard Davidson, and Upper Arlington are always paired together it seems while Reynoldsburg and Pickerington Central are always paired together. Seems like most of the flip flopping is more among the newer schools (not the district’s original HS).
 

The Dock

Well-known member
History seems to play into it somewhat. Dublin Coffman, Hilliard Davidson, and Upper Arlington are always paired together it seems while Reynoldsburg and Pickerington Central are always paired together. Seems like most of the flip flopping is more among the newer schools (not the district’s original HS).
In the case of Pickerington North being moved around, PLSD does not want the two schools to be in the same division. They would prefer the regular season game to be a marquee out-of-conference matchup with a potential rematch being in the playoffs/tournament if it comes to it.

PC, Reynoldsburg et al are also paired with Newark, Lancaster, Groveport and the like because the districts toward the north and west sides of Columbus adamantly do not want to be burdened with driving down U.S. 33 on the southeast side of Columbus due to rush hour traffic concerns during the week.
 

ColumbusCatholic

Active member
While this conference without question has great talent and skill their shuffling of teams kills any chance of traditional rivalries to develop and maintain. It’s such a fake created rivalry conference and honestly seems cheap to me. You’re a large D1 public near Columbus? Good for you here are 4 to 6 schools to play for a conference championship that won’t be the same schools 5-7 years from now. I wouldn’t want anything to do with it. Columbus would be better served by having 2-3 different big school conferences.
 

CatFoodFlambe

Active member
Agreeing with The Dock here - traffic always seems to be worse on the east/southeast side of Columbus than in the rest of the Metro. Older freeways (and especially the interchanges) haven't kept up with the growth. Of course, based on the "Columbus Bidding on OSHAA Finals" thread, no one dares transit I-71 due to the rampant criminal attacks on random motorists near the Fairgrounds. :sneaky:

The ripple effect of adding even one new school is surprising - given keeping 40 or so AD's happy, balancing enrollments, geography, and maintaining competitive balance isn't easy. And it's a moving target at that.

Any speculation on how adding Teays Valley and Logan to the OCC will pan out alignment-wise?
 

CatFoodFlambe

Active member
While this conference without question has great talent and skill their shuffling of teams kills any chance of traditional rivalries to develop and maintain. It’s such a fake created rivalry conference and honestly seems cheap to me. You’re a large D1 public near Columbus? Good for you here are 4 to 6 schools to play for a conference championship that won’t be the same schools 5-7 years from now. I wouldn’t want anything to do with it. Columbus would be better served by having 2-3 different big school conferences.
I don't see anyone clamoring to get out, unlike the soap opera over in the Mid-State League.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
While this conference without question has great talent and skill their shuffling of teams kills any chance of traditional rivalries to develop and maintain. It’s such a fake created rivalry conference and honestly seems cheap to me. You’re a large D1 public near Columbus? Good for you here are 4 to 6 schools to play for a conference championship that won’t be the same schools 5-7 years from now. I wouldn’t want anything to do with it. Columbus would be better served by having 2-3 different big school conferences.
I agree with some of this. When I look at Lancaster's OCC accomplishments over the last 20 years, some of them just don't strike me as bearing any significance given that (like you said) the flights change over so often. The hardest part, and this is what is so maddening in the scheme of it, is invariably over time a school is going to change divisions... which means the trophies that say "OCC-Ohio champions" from 10 years ago stop meaning a bucket of warm piss to kids when their school doesn't play in the OCC-Ohio division anymore. The only school this doesn't apply to as much is Gahanna since they've always been in the OCC-Ohio. But you have crap (not the best way to refer to it, but in the absence of a better word...) like Lancaster being in the Ohio the entire time of their OCC tenure -- only they are now in the "Buckeye", which wasn't even an original division name. That, and the weird business of Capital/Cardinal/Central designations changing over like control of Congress.

There are some rivalries that are probably genuine (e.g. Scioto/Kilbourne -- "The Battle of Hard Road"; Lancaster/Newark, which predates the schools' time in the OCC; Davidson/Coffman; Davidson/Grove City; W North/W South -- an old Northland Mall rivalry!)

The really hot take that will get me CANCELLED is Franklin Heights and Westland need to find a new home. A more ideal world has those two playing Centennial, Whetstone, Briggs and Whitehall. Columbus City League, as an institution, is still a mess and that's its own topic for a different day. Beyond those two things, it would be nice to see an "O.G." OCC where you have Coffman, Gahanna, Upper Arlington, Reynoldsburg, Thomas Worthington, Davidson, Grove City and Groveport be the eight schools that comprise the OCC banner... and the other 20+ schools can go make do with something of their whimsy.

The OCC has some advantages, especially when it comes to procuring refs/officials and the "brand" aspect, but the fact its so damn big does erode at some of the novelty, purity and tradition that we enjoy in high school sports.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
Agreeing with The Dock here - traffic always seems to be worse on the east/southeast side of Columbus than in the rest of the Metro. Older freeways (and especially the interchanges) haven't kept up with the growth. Of course, based on the "Columbus Bidding on OSHAA Finals" thread, no one dares transit I-71 due to the rampant criminal attacks on random motorists near the Fairgrounds. :sneaky:

The ripple effect of adding even one new school is surprising - given keeping 40 or so AD's happy, balancing enrollments, geography, and maintaining competitive balance isn't easy. And it's a moving target at that.

Any speculation on how adding Teays Valley and Logan to the OCC will pan out alignment-wise?
TV and Logan are going to be in the Buckeye with the following schools...

Canal Winchester
Groveport
Lancaster
Newark
Pickerington Central
Reynoldsburg

It will be rough for Teays in the beginning. Logan? Call the Red Cross.
 

933York

Active member
I agree with some of this. When I look at Lancaster's OCC accomplishments over the last 20 years, some of them just don't strike me as bearing any significance given that (like you said) the flights change over so often. The hardest part, and this is what is so maddening in the scheme of it, is invariably over time a school is going to change divisions... which means the trophies that say "OCC-Ohio champions" from 10 years ago stop meaning a bucket of warm piss to kids when their school doesn't play in the OCC-Ohio division anymore. The only school this doesn't apply to as much is Gahanna since they've always been in the OCC-Ohio. But you have crap (not the best way to refer to it, but in the absence of a better word...) like Lancaster being in the Ohio the entire time of their OCC tenure -- only they are now in the "Buckeye", which wasn't even an original division name. That, and the weird business of Capital/Cardinal/Central designations changing over like control of Congress.

There are some rivalries that are probably genuine (e.g. Scioto/Kilbourne -- "The Battle of Hard Road"; Lancaster/Newark, which predates the schools' time in the OCC; Davidson/Coffman; Davidson/Grove City; W North/W South -- an old Northland Mall rivalry!)

The really hot take that will get me CANCELLED is Franklin Heights and Westland need to find a new home. A more ideal world has those two playing Centennial, Whetstone, Briggs and Whitehall. Columbus City League, as an institution, is still a mess and that's its own topic for a different day. Beyond those two things, it would be nice to see an "O.G." OCC where you have Coffman, Gahanna, Upper Arlington, Reynoldsburg, Thomas Worthington, Davidson, Grove City and Groveport be the eight schools that comprise the OCC banner... and the other 20+ schools can go make do with something of their whimsy.

The OCC has some advantages, especially when it comes to procuring refs/officials and the "brand" aspect, but the fact its so damn big does erode at some of the novelty, purity and tradition that we enjoy in high school sports.
Over the last 25-30 years, how many districts have added additional HS’s? What is the current landscape of district expansion? If I understand correctly, Olentangy has potential for 1 more HS. What about Dublin, Hilliard, Pickerington? Are new HS’s eventually in their future, or are they done growing out? Reason I bring this up is, if districts are done expanding for the foreseeable future, maybe they consider long-term divisional setups. Honestly, the continuous re-shuffling seems to be in due part to districts continuing to add new schools.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
Over the last 25-30 years, how many districts have added additional HS’s? What is the current landscape of district expansion? If I understand correctly, Olentangy has potential for 1 more HS. What about Dublin, Hilliard, Pickerington? Are new HS’s eventually in their future, or are they done growing out? Reason I bring this up is, if districts are done expanding for the foreseeable future, maybe they consider long-term divisional setups. Honestly, the continuous re-shuffling seems to be in due part to districts continuing to add new schools.
Since 1995

Dublin
Scioto (1995)
Jerome (2004)

Hilliard
Darby (1997)
Bradley (2009)

Olentangy
Liberty (2003)
Orange (2003)
Berlin (2018)

Pickerington
North (2003)

Southwestern City Schools
Central Crossing (2002)

Westerville
Central (misnomer name; 2003)

So, 10.

I think Dublin's plans would be as simple as sending kids to Scioto, as that's a smaller school than Jerome (most recently built, the largest school I believe.) They would probably either have to anticipate (this isn't the right word) growth on the southern/eastern end of the district to fill Scioto back up, or just keep slotting reassignments from the north/northwest (where Jerome is) toward Coffman and then from Coffman down to Scioto. Jerome is still surrounded by farmland, kinda, and its still a decently rural area. Hella rich, though.

Hilliard? Not as sure. Bradley was built in an area that is also surrounded by farmland. I think Darby is the smallest school of Hilliard? I can try to source it to verify, but too lazy. Same idea as Dublin, I think. I don't think either Dublin or Hilliard will go to four.

Pickerington? There was 'talk' and ideas in the mid-late 2000's that Pickerington could build a third school, "South", closer to Canal Winchester along Diley Road. Pickerington is the real bugaboo district on this because they are back to 'capacity' concerns that reared the ugly heads back in the early 2000s where students were being sourced out to learn in modular trailers. The district says they need to expand. They're preaching that there is overflow and its only going to get worse.


---

Yeah, so, there is some truth (I think) to your observation that realignment gets partly influenced by the opening of new schools. When a new school is built, those kids have to come from somewhere. IIRC when Berlin, aka Olentangy IV, was built it cannibalized Olentangy HS (aka Olentangy I) in the process and there was redistricting done in the process to backfill the seats. @ElDuderino would know more.
 

Walt

Active member
Pickerington? There was 'talk' and ideas in the mid-late 2000's that Pickerington could build a third school, "South", closer to Canal Winchester along Diley Road. Pickerington is the real bugaboo district on this because they are back to 'capacity' concerns that reared the ugly heads back in the early 2000s where students were being sourced out to learn in modular trailers. The district says they need to expand. They're preaching that there is overflow and it’s only going to get worse.

There won’t be a 3rd high school in Pickerington in the foreseeable future. The bond issue that was just passed includes money to add on to both the Central and North buildings. When selling this bond issue to the voters, the school board said these additions will keep us from adding a 3rd high school - at least for a while.
 

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
from an outsiders point of view, i think this would be an efficient alignment both geographically and competitively. i think schools can suck it up and share a division with those they share a district with. travel is pretty equal for all outside of the Buckeye division. i still don’t understand the Logan add- the only thing they bring to the table is facilities.

Capital Division
Marysville
Dublin Jerome
Dublin Coffman
Dublin Scioto
Upper Arlington
Thomas Worthington
Worthington Kilbourne

Central Division
Olentangy
Olentangy Orange
Olentangy Liberty
Olentangy Berlin
Delaware Hayes
Big Walnut

Ohio Division
New Albany
Gahanna Lincoln
Westerville North
Westerville South
Westerville Central
Pickerington North
Pickerington Central

Buckeye Division
Teays Valley
Logan
Newark
Canal Winchester
Lancaster
Groveport Madison
Reynoldsburg

Cardinal Division
Grove City
Central Crossing
Westland
Franklin Heights
Hilliard Bradley
Hilliard Darby
Hilliard Davidson
 

cover24

Member
The issue I've always had with the alignment is how traditionally poor programs like WN and Delaware get rewarded by being placed in the D2 division, while D2 teams (until this year) like Berlin and Olentangy were placed in all D1 divisions.
 

CatFoodFlambe

Active member
The issue I've always had with the alignment is how traditionally poor programs like WN and Delaware get rewarded by being placed in the D2 division, while D2 teams (until this year) like Berlin and Olentangy were placed in all D1 divisions.
The OCC doesn't hold strictly to OHSAA football division assignments - it's a multi-layered decision balancing multiple programs. Hilliard, for example, has 23 varsity sports at each high school, plus separate JV and freshman teams for many of them. Add in a similar number of middle school teams, and there is a great deal more to think about than just football.

Even if football were the end-all, I would suggest that Berlin and Olentangy "OG" have proven on the field that they can hold their own against D-1 schools, whereas WN and Delaware have not.
 

Mike4

New member
The "TV and Logan will get killed" narrative is getting old! No one cares that literally every other school in the division will also get killed by PC. They are different! Now as for TV and Logan, both have freshman teams in basically all sports. Freshman teams with no one to play. No one in the MSL has freshman teams in anything. BC throws out a "C" football team to play TV's freshman team but still not a true freshman team. Without freshman competition, they can't find games, kids stop playing and entire programs suffer. Will it take some time to develop, sure but I truly think having true freshman competition in all sports will help development and is a great reason to join. Not to mention TV and Logan have facilities to rival ANY OCC competitor. TV and Logan's transition is not just for the 2024 season.... it is for the 2025, 2026, 2027 and beyond!
 

dhsdog06

Well-known member
The issue I've always had with the alignment is how traditionally poor programs like WN and Delaware get rewarded by being placed in the D2 division, while D2 teams (until this year) like Berlin and Olentangy were placed in all D1 divisions.

That's competitive balance. The smaller schools who struggle to compete end up together where they can be competitive.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
True “freshman(-only)” teams have become old hat. The best programs and even the biggest of the big work to get their best freshmen into JV and some dresses for Friday. Programs just need to take any and all opportunities to get kids reps no matter the means.

TV will likely be mediocre (4th through 6th place) in OCC football. Which, is fine. Canal didn’t have the easiest climb into the OCC, either. Logan will struggle big time. Strength, conditioning and speed are the three things you must have in the OCC and they just aren’t there. TV is at least in a better position in that regard… and TV gets the nominal ‘benefit’ of their next coaching hire being tasked to prime the program to answer that bell in the next 18 months. By the time Logan joins they’ll be either sticking with the coach who isn’t getting them very far to begin with or in the throes of a new head man.
 

sapientia et veritas

Well-known member
traffic always seems to be worse on the east/southeast side of Columbus than in the rest of the Metro. Older freeways (and especially the interchanges) haven't kept up with the growth.
That is due to racism and classism. Nobody at ODOT cares about the black people living in the housing projects on the southeast side off Hamilton and Gender or the hilljack tradespeople in pickup trucks from Lunkster. It's taken 30 years to address the east side parking lot at 70 and 270, and it's doubtful that it will alleviate much. Any time traffic slows on 270 on the Northwest or Northeast side, they add another lane.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
That is due to racism and classism. Nobody at ODOT cares about the black people living in the housing projects on the southeast side off Hamilton and Gender or the hilljack tradespeople in pickup trucks from Lunkster. It's taken 30 years to address the east side parking lot at 70 and 270, and it's doubtful that it will alleviate much. Any time traffic slows on 270 on the Northwest or Northeast side, they add another lane.
I’ll just settle for the removal of the Bixby and Rager Road accesses!
 

sapientia et veritas

Well-known member
There won’t be a 3rd high school in Pickerington in the foreseeable future. The bond issue that was just passed includes money to add on to both the Central and North buildings. When selling this bond issue to the voters, the school board said these additions will keep us from adding a 3rd high school - at least for a while.
I wouldn't trust the school board. After banging on doors and promising angry voters in 1989 & 1990 that Pick Central would be infinitely expandable like Mason, they built the north side Taj Mahal. Eventually they'll build a new high school on the western edge to funnel the undesirables west of 256 out of North. North will eventually be Donley High. Everything along Diley and Hill will eventually get developed down to 33. But yeah, not for a while.
 

sapientia et veritas

Well-known member
I’ll just settle for the removal of the Bixby and Rager Road accesses!
I'll be using the Pickerington Rd traffic light to recycle some cardboard here in about 5 minutes, but I'd like for them to remove that light now instead of waiting for the project to finish. Yeah. Bixby and Rager (apologies to Jerry) needed to close five years ago. Those clowns getting onto 33 at Rager because of the Winchester Pike shutdown are a highway safety menace.
 
.
Top