NBA Discussion

14Red said:
He's a unique talent, and I'm real excited to see a new guy on my team, the Sixes, Ben Simmons. Not as athletic or explosive as Giannis, he sees the floor well and should be a nice fit with Embiid and the rest of the Young Sixers.
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Sixers need to try to swing Okafor for something. Maybe just trade him with LA for Russell
 
14Red said:
He's a unique talent, and I'm real excited to see a new guy on my team, the Sixes, Ben Simmons. Not as athletic or explosive as Giannis, he sees the floor well and should be a nice fit with Embiid and the rest of the Young Sixers.
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Sixers need to figure out what the hell they're doing. TJ McConnell is a Delly type PG (obvious race comparison aside) in that he provides solid defense, can dish the ball but isn't a scorer or starter. But Dario Saric and Simmons clash, they're essentially the same player. And as Bluth said, they need to get rid of Okafor before Nerlens decides he is fed up with Philly and asks out. Okafor is the odd man out.
 
Jim Lahey said:
Sixers need to figure out what the hell they're doing. TJ McConnell is a Delly type PG (obvious race comparison aside) in that he provides solid defense, can dish the ball but isn't a scorer or starter. But Dario Saric and Simmons clash, they're essentially the same player. And as Bluth said, they need to get rid of Okafor before Nerlens decides he is fed up with Philly and asks out. Okafor is the odd man out.
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I think the Sixers are just in the market for acquiring parts. When healthy, Ben Simmons immediately upgrades the team. As we know in today's NBA, depth is HUGE. I agree, Okafor is more than likely the odd man out, although the Sixers have been able to limit Embiid, Noel and Okafor's minutes this year, and as of late, they've played pretty well as a team.

Since Dec. 30, the Sixers are 6-2. Now understand they are in the East, so you can get well in a hurry in the east, but they are at least now competitive. The difference this year is the addition of Ilasova, Saric, Rodriguez, obviously Embiid and the emergence of McConnell.
 
Michael Bluth said:
Newsflash, you're buried in the East
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Yes, but still much, much better than last season. If Embiid stays healthy, he'll be a top 10 player in two years. We have a good, not great starting lineup, and a good, no great bench. Just need to add some veteran pieces and learn how to win.
Being in the east, the ladder to the top is much shorter than in the west. After the Cavs, you have Toronto and Boston and after that, a bunch of teams kind of like the Sixers.
 
Well not really. You could argue Milwaukee is similar to the 6ers, but even then they are light years ahead of the 6ers. They have a general direction in which they are moving, Giannis is the real deal, and they have a decent, young supporting cast. Milwaukee is what the 6ers want to be.
 
Jim Lahey said:
Well not really. You could argue Milwaukee is similar to the 6ers, but even then they are light years ahead of the 6ers. They have a general direction in which they are moving, Giannis is the real deal, and they have a decent, young supporting cast. Milwaukee is what the 6ers want to be.
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I would say the Sixers and Bucks are pretty close together, Giannis is the real deal, but the Bucks were expected to make the next step in the East, a weaker conference and get into that top 4-5 teams, as of today they are 9. Then again the difference in #4 and #9 is 4 wins.
 
Can I say this?? I don't care if Russell Westbrook averages a triple double this year. This is such a media driven story it drives me nuts. Any NBA player who plays 35 minutes per game, with a 24 second shot clock can get a triple double. Westbrook has the ball in his hands all the time. The points and assists are a given. The only tough part is rebounds, and the number of 3 point attempts gives you what...long rebounds and guards rebound more now than ever. What is another byproduct? Turnovers. Westbrook had 10 turnovers last night as well, so he had a quadruple double, including turnovers.
 
14Red said:
I would say the Sixers and Bucks are pretty close together, Giannis is the real deal, but the Bucks were expected to make the next step in the East, a weaker conference and get into that top 4-5 teams, as of today they are 9. Then again the difference in #4 and #9 is 4 wins.
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No, the Sixers and Bucks aren't pretty close. Even with the Sixers going 7-3 in their last 10 games they are still 6 games behind the Bucks. They absolutely weren't expected to make a jump this year. And they don't have a bunch of conflicting parts that overlap each other (Embiid, Nerlens, Okafor; Saric, Simmons). AND they are doing this without their 2nd best player and best shooter in Khris Middleton, who hasn't played all year.
 
14Red said:
Can I say this?? I don't care if Russell Westbrook averages a triple double this year. This is such a media driven story it drives me nuts. Any NBA player who plays 35 minutes per game, with a 24 second shot clock can get a triple double. Westbrook has the ball in his hands all the time. The points and assists are a given. The only tough part is rebounds, and the number of 3 point attempts gives you what...long rebounds and guards rebound more now than ever. What is another byproduct? Turnovers. Westbrook had 10 turnovers last night as well, so he had a quadruple double, including turnovers.
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There are more than 20 players who are playing 34.5+ minutes per game. Guess how many of them have triple doubles this season.
 
14Red said:
A. 35 minutes per game
B. have the ball in your hands alot
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A. 30 seconds amounts to ~1.5 possessions, aka insignificant. Westbrook doesn't play 35. He plays 34.6 (which is why I included 34.5)
B. Move the goalposts. That's not what you originally said.
C. That doesn't change anything. Top 20 in Minutes Per Game that are also Top 20 in Usage (aka, ball in their hands a lot):
  • LeBron James
  • James Harden
  • Anthony Davis
  • John Wall
  • Damian Lillard
  • DeMar DeRozan
  • Kyrie Irving
  • Giannis Antetokounmpo
  • DeMarcus Cousins

Westbrook isn't even on the list (because he doesn't play 35 mpg). Of those on the list only Lebron, Harden, Giannis and DeMarcus have triple doubles. LeBron, Giannis and DeMarcus combined for 6 triple doubles total. According to you, they should each combine for at least 20. You've already doubled down on a dumb statement, wanna triple down or admit, for the first time, you were wrong?
 
Michael Bluth said:
Still depends how you define deeper. I'd wager the East will have more teams finish over .500

Just thought it could be a less boring discussion than we usually have in the NBA forum :)
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Well when the top four teams in the West are:
36-6
32-9
33-12
29-14

Compared the East's top four of:
29-11
28-14
26-16
24-18

And teams play more games against their own conference than they do across conferences, then obviously those extra losses in the West will be spread out to more teams.
 
Jim Lahey said:
14Red, just because you say 9-10 of the top 12 teams in the NBA are from the West does not make it true. By your own logic, we've determined the Warriors, the 1st seed in the West, is the 11th best team in the East.
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I know it's fun to poke holes in almost every 14Red argument, but even this one I a silly concept. Obviously the Warriors would be #2 in the East based on their loss to the Cavs in the Finals last year. :stirthepot:

But in all seriousness, like I mentioned in the post above if the West's best teams have better records than the East's, it shouldn't be a surprise that the West has worse records from the bottom to the middle than the East.
 
14Red said:
Can I say this?? I don't care if Russell Westbrook averages a triple double this year. This is such a media driven story it drives me nuts. Any NBA player who plays 35 minutes per game, with a 24 second shot clock can get a triple double. Westbrook has the ball in his hands all the time. The points and assists are a given. The only tough part is rebounds, and the number of 3 point attempts gives you what...long rebounds and guards rebound more now than ever. What is another byproduct? Turnovers. Westbrook had 10 turnovers last night as well, so he had a quadruple double, including turnovers.
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Regardless of what you think, there's a reason no one has averaged a triple double since Oscar in 61-62.
 
adselder09 said:
But in all seriousness, like I mentioned in the post above if the West's best teams have better records than the East's, it shouldn't be a surprise that the West has worse records from the bottom to the middle than the East.
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Agreed 100%. I just find it utterly ridiculous his reasoning was that Portland, the 9th seed West, beat the Cavs, the 1st seed East, and thus the West is automatically deeper.
 
Jim Lahey said:
A. 30 seconds amounts to ~1.5 possessions, aka insignificant. Westbrook doesn't play 35. He plays 34.6 (which is why I included 34.5)
B. Move the goalposts. That's not what you originally said.
C. That doesn't change anything. Top 20 in Minutes Per Game that are also Top 20 in Usage (aka, ball in their hands a lot):
  • LeBron James
  • James Harden
  • Anthony Davis
  • John Wall
  • Damian Lillard
  • DeMar DeRozan
  • Kyrie Irving
  • Giannis Antetokounmpo
  • DeMarcus Cousins

Westbrook isn't even on the list (because he doesn't play 35 mpg). Of those on the list only Lebron, Harden, Giannis and DeMarcus have triple doubles. LeBron, Giannis and DeMarcus combined for 6 triple doubles total. According to you, they should each combine for at least 20. You've already doubled down on a dumb statement, wanna triple down or admit, for the first time, you were wrong?
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Nice try...Lebron and Harden have the ball in their hands alot. LeBron is also on a good team with another score (Irving) and rebounder (Love). Davis, Cousins and Antetokounmpo do not have the ball in their hands much, double doubles, yes, assists, very difficult. Wall, Lilliard and DeRosan are on teams where they share the ball with other guards.

My point is Russ has a great chance for a triple double every night because...
1. he has unlimited shots - he has the green light in every situation
2. He's on a team with few guys that can create their own shots.
3. the Thunder's main offense (Russ high screen and roll) - he's either going to get a shot, or pass to a guy for a shot. They probably do that what - 30-40 times a game? Add in the breakout opportunities and it's really not a difficult feat.
 
Um....that was the point, all those guys play 34.5+ minutes per game and they have the ball in their hands a lot. That list isn't players who have triple doubles. That was a list of players who are in the top 20 for minutes per game and top 20 usage. Did you even read everything I wrote or did you just look at the names and start typing of bunch of dumbazzery? The point was, not even half the players who register in the top 20 for minutes and usage have a triple double, proving your point of "35 minutes and ball in their hands" as the only way to get a triple double as incorrect. Antetokounmpo, Davis and Cousins have the ball in their hands plenty, hence the reason they show up in the top 20 for usage. Hell, Antetokounmpo is the Buck's offensive point guard for Christ's sake. Wall is averaging 10.2 assists per game, so the fact he has to "share the ball with others guards" isn't the reason he doesn't get triple doubles. It's because it's really, really hard to do.

Why do you keep moving the goal posts? First it was
1) "Any NBA player that plays 35 minutes a game can easily get a triple double." When proven wrong you made it:
2) "Plays 35 minutes a game (Westbrook doesn't) and has the ball in their hands a lot." When you were proven wrong yet again you made it:
3) Now it's "plays 35 minutes a game, has the ball in their hands and can't have anyone else good on their team." Kobe Bryant played with absolute garbage in 2005-2006. He played 41 minutes per game (nearly 6 more minutes a game than Westbrook this year!) and had a usage rate of 38.7% (2.3% less than Westbrook this year) and he played with garbage (aka no one to take his assists, rebounds or points away). Did he average a triple double for the season? What are you gonna change it to next?
 
Jim Lahey said:
Um....that was the point, all those guys play 34.5+ minutes per game and they have the ball in their hands a lot. That list isn't players who have triple doubles. That was a list of players who are in the top 20 for minutes per game and top 20 usage. Did you even read everything I wrote or did you just look at the names and start typing of bunch of dumbazzery? The point was, not even half the players who register in the top 20 for minutes and usage have a triple double, proving your point of "35 minutes and ball in their hands" as the only way to get a triple double as incorrect. Antetokounmpo, Davis and Cousins have the ball in their hands plenty, hence the reason they show up in the top 20 for usage. Hell, Antetokounmpo is the Buck's offensive point guard for Christ's sake. Wall is averaging 10.2 assists per game, so the fact he has to "share the ball with others guards" isn't the reason he doesn't get triple doubles. It's because it's really, really hard to do.

Why do you keep moving the goal posts? First it was
1) "Any NBA player that plays 35 minutes a game can easily get a triple double." When proven wrong you made it:
2) "Plays 35 minutes a game (Westbrook doesn't) and has the ball in their hands a lot." When you were proven wrong yet again you made it:
3) Now it's "plays 35 minutes a game, has the ball in their hands and can't have anyone else good on their team." Kobe Bryant played with absolute garbage in 2005-2006. He played 41 minutes per game (nearly 6 more minutes a game than Westbrook this year!) and had a usage rate of 38.7% (2.3% less than Westbrook this year) and he played with garbage (aka no one to take his assists, rebounds or points away). Did he average a triple double for the season? What are you gonna change it to next?
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You are wasting your breath. You might as well be talking to a giant turd.
 
Don't really feel like catching up on this argument, but given 14red is involved I can pretty much assume his argument is as stupid as it is wrong.
 
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