Moeller penalized for recruiting

LOL...

In accordance with Bylaw 11, OHSAA executive director Doug Ute's office also imposed the following penalties:

1. Moeller High School shall be publicly reprimanded
2. The Moeller admissions department shall discard any contact information provided to them by the coach
3. Any further recruiting infraction(s) personally committed by the coach during the 2020-21 or 2021-22 school years will result in, at minimum, a two-game suspension for him in the following OHSAA football tournament (should Moeller qualify)
4. The OHSAA office accepts Moeller's request for a compliance seminar for all its coaches
5. Moeller High School shall be fined $1,000.

There are no 'real teeth' in any of this.

:>---

EGA
 
Last edited:
What do you mean ohiopup?

#1) That public repremand alone is brutal. :rolleyes:

#2) I'm quite sure the Moeller admissions department will IMMEDIATELY discard all the information the coach provided them. :LOL:

#3) The $1,000 fine? Wonder which booster will pay that?
 
thehawg27 said:
Really? You can't see the difference?

I'm not one of these beat up on the privates guys. I think the accusations of recruiting is way overblown imo.

However Moeller was actively going into "public" feeder programs to introduce themselves to kids. Come on man, thats wrong anyway you look at it.

Im all for parents sending their kids wherever they see fit, but what they were attempting to do or did was a blatant disregard of the rules.

Colerain inviting the "Little Cards" is EXACTLY how this is supposed to work. Wtf
Click to expand...


The Moeller violation was for contacting CYO coaches, not public schools.
Little Cards football program is NOT a public school program; was originally a Catholic youth org; not sure who runs it today, but it is a private association in the GCYFL
 
Last edited:
L Hand said:
Or Lakota West. Bolden is laughing his off at this.

Just curious, would this be allowed of a public school coach attending junior high games for that district's feeder teams?
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing. I am solidly in the camp of screw Moeller but to me this seems insane. They can not visit the Jr High feeder schools? I am assuming that it is because the other Catholic HS can not visit but this seems trivial. It would be different if they went to Loveland Jr High games or something.

I still think we should just put all Catholic and OE schools in the top 3 divisions and have everyone else in the bottom three divisions. Then let them all recruit to their hearts desire so we can stop this charade of "no recruiting" in OHSAA.
 
speedthatkills said:
I was thinking the same thing. I am solidly in the camp of screw Moeller but to me this seems insane. They can not visit the Jr High feeder schools? I am assuming that it is because the other Catholic HS can not visit but this seems trivial. It would be different if they went to Loveland Jr High games or something.

I still think we should just put all Catholic and OE schools in the top 3 divisions and have everyone else in the bottom three divisions. Then let them all recruit to their hearts desire so we can stop this charade of "no recruiting" in OHSAA.
Click to expand...

It is an interesting conundrum. I am an X fan but am very sympathetic to the arguments that some public schools have as to the private school advantages. What is interesting is that I think that "recruiting" is actually one of the smallest factor and that as many (or more) private schools engage in it/benefit from it than the privates.

What are X's biggest advantages? -size, make-up of student of body, and probably most of all, reputation-based (not direct) recruiting (and when I say reputation, I don't just mean athletic reputation). X is always going to be in the biggest division so division fights don't matter to me (public/private spilts do, as would the creation of an "open" division (which I would only be opposed to if it ended up being a 6 team division made up of X, Iggy, Edward, Moeller and Elder)).

However, I fully realize that the recruiting and/or systemic advantage issues are probably a bigger issue in the lower divisions. What a lot of the public school fans also fail to realize, it is almost as much of an issue with public schools as it is with privates (I am looking at you at Colerain (before Bolden left), Steubenville, Coldwater, Trotwood Madison, etc.) who have their own systemic advantage and recruiting issues (and, other than Trotwood-Madison, I am not accusing anyone of cheating).

So then you get into issues where you are punishing schools for building and maintaining great programs.

I don't think there is an answer - but I do hate it when fans of publics scream "recruiting" while: (1) failing to acknowledge that the issue isn't private-only (by a long shot) and frankly, in a perfect world, should be allowed (why shouldn't coaches/schools be allowed to explain to students/parents why their school/program would be best for that student and allow the student to make an informed choice?); and (2) direct and/or illegal "recruiting" is a very, very small part of the reason (if it is at all) as to why certain schools are always on the top and others are always on the bottom.
 
L Hand said:
It is an interesting conundrum. I am an X fan but am very sympathetic to the arguments that some public schools have as to the private school advantages. What is interesting is that I think that "recruiting" is actually one of the smallest factor and that as many (or more) private schools engage in it/benefit from it than the privates.

I don't think there is an answer - but I do hate it when fans of publics scream "recruiting" while: (1) failing to acknowledge that the issue isn't private-only (by a long shot) and frankly, in a perfect world, should be allowed (why shouldn't coaches/schools be allowed to explain to students/parents why their school/program would be best for that student and allow the student to make an informed choice?); and (2) direct and/or illegal "recruiting" is a very, very small part of the reason (if it is at all) as to why certain schools are always on the top and others are always on the bottom.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone is arguing that coaches/schools can't explain their programs to parents/kids. The difference is WHO makes the effort & WHERE that conversation takes place. If a parent/kid comes to the school or to a neutral site information session, then there really is nothing anyone can say or do about it (still America, right?). No different than a vocational school hosting a "visit day" where kids & parents from their feeder schools can come in and see what programs are offered.

To me, recruiting (in the negative context) is when officials representatives of the school/team step out of official functions and seek to initiate those conversations with a targeted audience. For a public school, would be the same if coaches/officials from Mentor went to a youth football league event in Chardon.

All that said, your point that recruiting isn't why some schools stay on top is very well stated. Whether it be business or sports, reputation is the best tool to attract talent. And that might be why folks on the "bottom" are usually the ones "caught". They're trying harder to turn their reputations around (because they have to).
 
speedthatkills said:
I still think we should just put all Catholic and OE schools in the top 3 divisions and have everyone else in the bottom three divisions. Then let them all recruit to their hearts desire so we can stop this charade of "no recruiting" in OHSAA.
Click to expand...

So that would put around 11 schools in D4-D6.........
 
L Hand said:
It is an interesting conundrum. I am an X fan but am very sympathetic to the arguments that some public schools have as to the private school advantages. What is interesting is that I think that "recruiting" is actually one of the smallest factor and that as many (or more) private schools engage in it/benefit from it than the privates.

What are X's biggest advantages? -size, make-up of student of body, and probably most of all, reputation-based (not direct) recruiting (and when I say reputation, I don't just mean athletic reputation). X is always going to be in the biggest division so division fights don't matter to me (public/private spilts do, as would the creation of an "open" division (which I would only be opposed to if it ended up being a 6 team division made up of X, Iggy, Edward, Moeller and Elder)).

However, I fully realize that the recruiting and/or systemic advantage issues are probably a bigger issue in the lower divisions. What a lot of the public school fans also fail to realize, it is almost as much of an issue with public schools as it is with privates (I am looking at you at Colerain (before Bolden left), Steubenville, Coldwater, Trotwood Madison, etc.) who have their own systemic advantage and recruiting issues (and, other than Trotwood-Madison, I am not accusing anyone of cheating).

So then you get into issues where you are punishing schools for building and maintaining great programs.

I don't think there is an answer - but I do hate it when fans of publics scream "recruiting" while: (1) failing to acknowledge that the issue isn't private-only (by a long shot) and frankly, in a perfect world, should be allowed (why shouldn't coaches/schools be allowed to explain to students/parents why their school/program would be best for that student and allow the student to make an informed choice?); and (2) direct and/or illegal "recruiting" is a very, very small part of the reason (if it is at all) as to why certain schools are always on the top and others are always on the bottom.
Click to expand...
Dude what the hell are you talking about???
RAMNATION ALMIGHTY
 
Last edited:
L Hand said:
It is an interesting conundrum. I am an X fan but am very sympathetic to the arguments that some public schools have as to the private school advantages. What is interesting is that I think that "recruiting" is actually one of the smallest factor and that as many (or more) private schools engage in it/benefit from it than the privates.

What are X's biggest advantages? -size, make-up of student of body, and probably most of all, reputation-based (not direct) recruiting (and when I say reputation, I don't just mean athletic reputation). X is always going to be in the biggest division so division fights don't matter to me (public/private spilts do, as would the creation of an "open" division (which I would only be opposed to if it ended up being a 6 team division made up of X, Iggy, Edward, Moeller and Elder)).

However, I fully realize that the recruiting and/or systemic advantage issues are probably a bigger issue in the lower divisions. What a lot of the public school fans also fail to realize, it is almost as much of an issue with public schools as it is with privates (I am looking at you at Colerain (before Bolden left), Steubenville, Coldwater, Trotwood Madison, etc.) who have their own systemic advantage and recruiting issues (and, other than Trotwood-Madison, I am not accusing anyone of cheating).

So then you get into issues where you are punishing schools for building and maintaining great programs.

I don't think there is an answer - but I do hate it when fans of publics scream "recruiting" while: (1) failing to acknowledge that the issue isn't private-only (by a long shot) and frankly, in a perfect world, should be allowed (why shouldn't coaches/schools be allowed to explain to students/parents why their school/program would be best for that student and allow the student to make an informed choice?); and (2) direct and/or illegal "recruiting" is a very, very small part of the reason (if it is at all) as to why certain schools are always on the top and others are always on the bottom.
Click to expand...

Pay attention to the geniuses at DPS and some of the decisions they made with B-Ball & Football. Most Dayton kids will pick us or Wayne, Centerville, etc. You simply don’t have to recruit, maybe Coach Doug was doing that EARLY in his run but now you simply don’t have to. Hell look at Cooper Stewart he could of played anywhere, but he came to play with those Dogs, and won 2 chips. Trust me these kids already know where they want to play.
I love Trotwood, but I will never be against a private taking one of these Dayton kids out of a sh***y situation, and helping them build a solid foundation.

RAMNATION ALMIGHTY
 
Raylan_Givens said:
To me, recruiting (in the negative context) is when officials representatives of the school/team step out of official functions and seek to initiate those conversations with a targeted audience. For a public school, would be the same if coaches/officials from Mentor went to a youth football league event in Chardon.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, why do you think this is bad. I would be in favor of all the above (public or private).

I AM against private schools offering scholarship money to athletes solely or partially based upon athletic reasons. Although, having said that, I do find it humorous that public school fans would have a problem with this given that every public school athlete that goes to school in their own district is on "scholarship." The only people that really should have a problem with it are the other private school with which that school competes (cough, LaSalle, cough, cough... ;) )
 
What is hilarious if it only involved a Moe feeder School.

Why don't the Coaches just get up on Sunday morning and go to Church if they want to get to know the Families and Kids.
There is always a fund raiser of Coffee and Donuts or something similar going on almost every Sunday after Mass .
Easy way to mingle and talk and not draw the ire of OHSAA.

They took the Lazy way out and got the embarrassment they should......
 
[[To me, recruiting (in the negative context) is when officials representatives of the school/team step out of official functions and seek to initiate those conversations with a targeted audience. For a public school, would be the same if coaches/officials from Mentor went to a youth football league event in Chardon. ]]

L Hand said:
Just out of curiosity, why do you think this is bad. I would be in favor of all the above (public or private).

I AM against private schools offering scholarship money to athletes solely or partially based upon athletic reasons. Although, having said that, I do find it humorous that public school fans would have a problem with this given that every public school athlete that goes to school in their own district is on "scholarship." The only people that really should have a problem with it are the other private school with which that school competes (cough, LaSalle, cough, cough... ;) )
Click to expand...
Sports to me are community based. Football most especially (whether it be geographic or church based). To have a representative of another community cross into another to try and pull a kid out is where things get "skeevy" to me. In the business world you never stand in the way of person leaving for a growth opportunity, but for a QuikLube owner to walk into SpeedyLube to try and talk the manager into working for him would be crossing a line for me.

I'm not a massive rule guy, but, unfortunately, the behavior of adults is why there are (and needs to be) lots of rules in this area.
 
MoeDude said:
It is interesting that this is considered a violation but Little Cards Night at a Colerain Football Home Game is considered just fine?!?! I'm not making excuses, the coach who did this was wrong and foolish for not check the rules before sending the email but there does seem to be a double standard between what public schools can do versus what a private school can do with the Little Cards program being a glaring example.
Click to expand...
lmao you do realize two professional football players played on The Little Cards and since Colerain does not have open enrollment neither one of them played for Colerain High School. Preston Brown Buffalo Bills (Northwest High School) and David Montgomery Chicago Bears (Mt.Healthy High School).
 
speedthatkills said:
I was thinking the same thing. I am solidly in the camp of screw Moeller but to me this seems insane. They can not visit the Jr High feeder schools? I am assuming that it is because the other Catholic HS can not visit but this seems trivial. It would be different if they went to Loveland Jr High games or something.

I still think we should just put all Catholic and OE schools in the top 3 divisions and have everyone else in the bottom three divisions. Then let them all recruit to their hearts desire so we can stop this charade of "no recruiting" in OHSAA.
Click to expand...

You do know that many public schools are "open enrollment" these days. I'm also sure if a public school has a good football program it would not be difficult to sway families into moving into the district if they weren't open enrollment. The thought of public schools all being "homegrown" community teams is archaic. No one can be that consistently good year after year if they aren't open enrollment or having kids move into the district. The public vs. private debate is old.
 
NFL86 said:
lmao you do realize two professional football players played on The Little Cards and since Colerain does not have open enrollment neither one of them played for Colerain High School. Preston Brown Buffalo Bills (Northwest High School) and David Montgomery Chicago Bears (Mt.Healthy High School).
Click to expand...

That's just two examples. You don't think some kids move over from Northwest school district?
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
That's just two examples. You don't think some kids move over from Northwest school district?
Click to expand...
It's actually happened in the past when a star in Northwest school district ended up at Colerain but let NFL86 have his fun. LOL Folks over in the Northwest school district have always lived in denial over the Little Cards program. Like I said, they have had Little Cards night at Colerain home games for years. I really don't care except that Catholic High Schools are not allowed to do the same with the Catholic Football League. Look Coach Elder should have known better but there is a double standard here. All I'm saying is if the Catholic and other private schools can't make contact with little league programs then the same should be true for the public schools.
 
MoeDude said:
It's actually happened in the past when a star in Northwest school district ended up at Colerain but let NFL86 have his fun. LOL Folks over in the Northwest school district have always lived in denial over the Little Cards program. Like I said, they have had Little Cards night at Colerain home games for years. I really don't care except that Catholic High Schools are not allowed to do the same with the Catholic Football League. Look Coach Elder should have known better but there is a double standard here. All I'm saying is if the Catholic and other private schools can't make contact with little league programs then the same should be true for the public schools.
Click to expand...

You can make contact within the rules; what you can't do is make contact and all you talk about is athletics. If anyone should know about this, it is Moeller because Crable got reprimanded for literally the same thing. If he had passed out brochures extolling all the opportunities at Moeller instead of just athletics, then that is legal under OHSAA rules.
The current problem is that is obviously athletic recruiting, it was a ignorant move. If they had went to a CYO football game and passed out literature about Moeller that gave all the academic, club, "House" system and athletic teams; that is legal under OHSAA rules.
 
hammer89 said:
What makes it different for public schools depends on the program. if a middle school student only has one school he can attend in high school, the high school could do this because it isn't recruiting- it's presumed that kid is going to your school anyways.

If a public middle school feeds to multiple public high schools, then this would not be allowed at a public school either.
Click to expand...

This is the issue with ms athletes in my district. Every kid has a ZONED high school but in reality every 8th grader is a free agent in that they can choose whatever high school they want to go to so long as that high school has room for them. Some middle schools in my district feed into 3 or 4 different high schools and it makes it difficult on high school coaches and middle school athletes alike. Luckily my high school is fed directly by 2 middle schools. Our middle schoolers only have us as an option in terms of direct feeding but can certainly go elsewhere within the district if they so choose to.
 
Mackinbiner said:
PLEASE contact the OHSAA with any VALID evidence of recruiting. No one should get away with cheating.

And so much for you having any idea as to what's going on because the kid in question isn't even playing basketball.
Click to expand...
There are several reasons he is not playing this year.... (yet). Hunter originally "transferred" to Jackson for basketball but he's a multi-sport athlete....he played football because he enjoyed the game even though basketbal, is his favorite. He played basketball last year but this year there are, let's just say, issues.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top