Mid-State League ‘22-23

[The Dock]

Not too early to get this started. Like previous years it’ll be primarily Cardinal Division, but I’ll take any and all contributions from the other two divisions.

In the Cardinal…

HP brings back a ton. The notable graduations are Saunders and Marshawn Oliver (who I’ll miss watching play — always had a smile on his face when playing!) But, it’s outweighed by all the dudes they return.

GCC was my pick last year to finish second; y’all said I was crazy. They finished second. They’ll finish second again. Listen to Dock? Yes. Just hope they have some depth this season.

Millersport brings back, like, 95% of their scoring?

FCA brings back, like, 3-4 kids with 3 years of varsity experience under their belts. I think Big John will be one of the best big men this year.

Rosecrans ALSO brings back virtually everyone. They’re going to be hella’ tough.

Berne graduates… EIGHT!? Huh?

I don’t know what Miller has.

FC: we’ll miss Big Jack (the rest of the league other than HP won’t, however.) The only returning players with any minutes are Burke and two of the freshmen from last year. Excited to watch Jake (fun player to watch) as the featured player with H.O’R (he’s going to be pretty solid when it’s all said and done) & Keefer in the backcourt. I have no real clue what the rest of the team is even going to be — despite watching a handful of JV games. My guess is they’re going to end up long-terming it over these next three years into a guard-heavy system with rotations that will be all-small…? Like their best shot at winning the league will be when the 8th grade class (‘27s) are sophomores.

Go. @Snowman8 @JokesOnYou @bballfan48

 

[The Dock]

NEW THIS YEAR…

• Berne is hosting the inaugural MSL-MOCAL challenge in late December. 8 games between two days. It’s BU, FC, FCA, MP vs Delaware Christian, Liberty Christian, Northside Christian, and Shekinah Christian. The games are posted on Berne’s Arbiter page.

• FC will be getting a digital scores table (no more keeping score in the bleachers!) They will also have chairs for the teams (yay no more bleacher butt!)

 

[bballfan48]

Cardinal should be a battle every night!

The question will be who is playing for 2nd place, like normal.

Millersport brings back a lot of scoring, though they will need to find a third. Teams will be able to take away Johnson and leave the big. Someone else will need to score.

FCA will be good as usual. Would not be surprised if this is Hooper's last ride with this senior class.

Berne - Not sure what to think. Does Nemeth play since he is the only one back and football recruiting is in full swing? JV team was BAD last year.

Miller - Looks like a rough season in Corning. They graduated all but one. JV was really BAD.

Rosecrans - Will challenge for 2nd place. GCC opens the year in Zanesville. Should be a battle to start the season.

FC- They will pull a few stunners.

GCC- I have walked in on a few open gyms, with over 30 in the gym on weekdays. Hearing two guys that did not play last year are coming back as seniors. Both started as Sophomores and wanted to focus on a soccer scholarship. One is 6'4 and will help on the interior. Also get back a senior who missed last year due to an ACL tear in football. You add those three into the rotation on the bench, huge help! Also added a transfer from Teays Valley. They play Millersport next week at ODU so should be good to see that battle.

Looking across D4, this might be the best season of competition. MOCAL keeps getting better and the Cardinal is loaded.

@The Dock - what have you heard about the Cardinal and HP? Rumor has it, that three schools are threatening to forfeit games at the Cave this year and pay the fine.

 

[The Dock]

Cardinal should be a battle every night!

The question will be who is playing for 2nd place, like normal.

Millersport brings back a lot of scoring, though they will need to find a third. Teams will be able to take away Johnson and leave the big. Someone else will need to score.

Depth will be an issue for the Lakers, obviously, but that Ross kid can get hot from beyond the arc.

FCA will be good as usual. Would not be surprised if this is Hooper's last ride with this senior class.

Man, I thought the team that won a District Title in '18 was going to be his final year. For all we know he might want to coach long enough to be in the to-be-formed (without HP) league.

Berne - Not sure what to think. Does Nemeth play since he is the only one back and football recruiting is in full swing? JV team was BAD last year.

I mean, they do return three (him, plus Gerken and Snyder off the bench.) But Gerken has had lingering issues in his arm (which is why, despite being solid as a freshman on the hill in '21 he didn't pitch at all this season.) So would HG even play?

I don't think it'd be worth it for Nemeth to play. His bread is buttered with the opportunity to be a reliable, crucial piece to a team that has other dudes on it. That exists in football and baseball -- not this year's hoops. Don't get me wrong: he can impress on the hardwood. But their only chance at winning is if he can play 28+ minutes a night. I feel it'd be better for him if he just focused on the batting cage and doing bullpens with his dealers

Miller - Looks like a rough season in Corning. They graduated all but one. JV was really BAD.

Only team in the league where I couldn't place a single name to a face despite them playing at our house last year. I figured it'd be rough lol.

Rosecrans - Will challenge for 2nd place. GCC opens the year in Zanesville. Should be a battle to start the season.

Do you smell what The Rock is cookin'? I do -- tons of threes.

FC- They will pull a few stunners.

That's a kind way to say they're going 6-16 (4-10)!

GCC- I have walked in on a few open gyms, with over 30 in the gym on weekdays. Hearing two guys that did not play last year are coming back as seniors. Both started as Sophomores and wanted to focus on a soccer scholarship. One is 6'4 and will help on the interior. Also get back a senior who missed last year due to an ACL tear in football. You add those three into the rotation on the bench, huge help! Also added a transfer from Teays Valley. They play Millersport next week at ODU so should be good to see that battle.

That's good news for the Eagles! Especially the presence of a big man (which GCC has only had, like, two of in its program history.) They'll have a prime opportunity at a district crown.

@The Dock - what have you heard about the Cardinal and HP? Rumor has it, that three schools are threatening to forfeit games at the Cave this year and pay the fine.

What have I heard? Well, they sure as [****] don't want to play the Warriors. What's new?

I presume one of those schools is Rosecrans (not saying that to name and shame; just acknowledging it's a thorny situation.) I'll have to ask around. My only question is "what's the point in refusing to play there?" I would just not schedule them in as a home game if the goal was to evade playing them. Like, I would get it done to release the officials out of their contracts ASAP. No point in being on the hook to pay for the officials for a JV/V nightcap that is worthless.

 

[Snowman8]

Looking across D4, this might be the best season of competition. MOCAL keeps getting better and the Cardinal is loaded.

As my limited area of knowledge is more based on the MOCAL, I completely agree. And I really appreciate the breakdowns on this! Maybe we can learn a few more things through the summer camps and shootouts.

bballfan48 - That update on GCC is crazy! For all the tough luck they've had with injuries and players quitting, it could all come together once again. Maybe not quite as magical as their District Title team since I wouldn't imagine anyone can tough HP, but perhaps a D4 title is in their future. With depth like that, I would imagine the press will be back and the pace will be very high!

Last year the MOCAL was the best it's been in its 24-year history. Not necessarily because there was an elite team, but because there was so much top-to-bottom depth. Even a bottom team like Liberty Christian still had some good games and challenged (or beat) the top teams in the conference. Not counting HP or Miller, it seems like the rest of the Cardinal is in a really strong spot after having a bit of a down year.

I'm intrigued by the MSL-MOCAL challenge you mentioned. I've felt there should have been more games anyway, so this is pretty cool! Matchups will definitely dictate things, but I could see it going either way. Wish we could have seen GCC/Northside. That game could get into the 100s.

I don't know as much as prior years since one of my buddies is no longer coaching at his school, but I'll share what I know about the MOCAL to help paint the D4 picture:

- Northside is probably going to win the conference with nobody getting close. Vanderwarker, now a 6'7" sophomore wing, is playing on the elite AAU travel circuit for All-Ohio Red in tournaments across the country. If the rumors are true and Northside is getting another transfer that he trains with (a 6'5" guard with incredible athleticism and a jump shot), then nobody in the conference can match up. Not to mention the Jackson brothers (now 3 of them) who transferred in and the other transfer they had last year to add to an already loaded sophomore class, no one in the conference will be able to keep up with the raw athleticism and length. I've also heard rumors of at least one more impact transfer. Anyone sensing a theme?

- Tree of Life lost a lot, but they're also the biggest school in the conference and are not unfamiliar with transfers themselves. They do return a 1st team all-conference player and have plenty of speed. I think they had a tall player on JV last year but I could be wrong. Anyway, it wouldn't surprise me to see them compete for a league title, but they will need to rely more on their depth and overall athleticism as opposed to their skill that they had last year. Repeating as conference champion is still a possibility.

- Delaware Christian returns a decent amount and last year they uncharacteristically had some legit size. By the end of the season they were playing a bunch of freshmen and sophomore guards, so if they develop then DCS could be a solid team in the coming years. They did manage to knock off Northside last season (although that was before Northside got their two in-season transfers).

- Liberty Christian could be tough on any given night. They have two legitimate studs in the backcourt and had a long 6'5" post who rim protected as a freshman last year. They're still new to OHSAA though and don't have a history of success.

- Madison Christian had possibly their best team ever last season and were tied for first place in the conference in February. They won what I think is their first tournament game in at least a decade, maybe ever. There's still some solid athletes there, but shooting will be a concern. Of course, nobody shoots well in that blue gym.

- Shekinah Christian had high expectations by finishing 2nd two years ago with no seniors, but the All-Ohio kid getting cancer right before the season really must have taken its toll as they had their fewest wins in any season I could find on MaxPreps. I took a peak at their roster and of the 10 guys who regularly played, only 1 of them was listed at 6'0" with the rest being under. The next couple years could be rough with only a few upperclassmen, but last season they were able to field a JV team for the first time in years, so that's a good sign going forward.

- Granville Christian has been consistently solid over the past several years, including some tournament wins. However, losing the best of the Benvie brothers will be very difficult to replace. I also saw on their school website that they are currently looking for another coach, so that could slow down summer progress and the players may need to adapt to a new style. Could be a down year for the Lions. Unrelated, I also saw that long-time coach in the Newark/Granville area, Tom Young, recently passed away. He coached last at GCA.


Sorry to branch off a bit into the MOCAL, but I've grown quite fond of this little (and improving) conference in tandem with the MSL Cardinal. Outside of those two, my D4 knowledge is a bit lacking. East Knox or Danville going to be good? Is Grandview Heights still in D4? Wellington moving back to D4? GCC going to D3 again anytime soon since they seem to be growing rapidly? Hopefully the district still gets 2 champions because I think it's finally improving toward respectability.

 

[The Dock]

East Knox’s best player graduates. That kid was impressive. EDIT: EK graduates four starters.

I’ll chime in with more thoughts. Re: forfeit-gate — look… I don’t like it. The only provision I’ll make is Rosecrans. To paraphrase the words of Chris Rock: “I’m not saying Rosecrans should refuse to play Prep — but I understand.” I’ll investigate further on the matter. If FC is one of those three schools… well, not anymore. We’re going to play HP through hell or high water. Namely because this dilemma isn’t on HP anymore (it’s on the MSL) but also because we’re not paying a fine.

 

[JokesOnYou]

Harvest Prep lost 3 players in their rotation from last year. Two starters that @The Dock mentioned and one kid who was the 6th man. However, Harvest Prep still has most of their team returning and a impressive Freshman class. One of my favorite things about the Harvest Prep basketball team is watching them in the summer go to colleges and compete in high school shootouts. It gives them a chance to play against tough competition from around the country.

 

[The Dock]

re: MSL-MOCAL challenge --

I like the principle of it. My personal opinion is I'd rather have a Buckeye/Cardinal classic than play the MOCAL, due to the idea of community feel and increased attendance. But, I understand you might only get Amanda & Liberty Union to bite on that. I do think the four MSL participants being Central D4 teams renders it a little redundant (hey, I think there's a little bit more flavor if Rosecrans and/or Miller was in it -- I also see it being a de facto tune-up and "preview" of the Sectional/District tournament... which, it is what it is.) Northside vs Berne is one of the match-ups; I know ours' are Delaware Christian & Shekinah (who we incidentally have a losing record to... 1-2 or 2-3 -- dang Shetler boys of the early 10's.)

So it's at Berne, eh? Hope they accept Kennedy half-dollars. FC with a chance to go 3-0 in Berne's gym? We love to see it, don't we folks?

 

[The Dock]

However, Harvest Prep still has most of their team returning and a impressive Freshman class. One of my favorite things about the Harvest Prep basketball team is watching them in the summer go to colleges and compete in high school shootouts. It gives them a chance to play against tough competition from around the country.

If any of those freshmen prefer to eat fish sandwiches and cheese pizza for lunch, I know a school on Route 37 that serves them.

Prep prepares pretty well in the summer annually. The part I like it is helps open doors and gets exposure to the kids.

 

[JokesOnYou]

What have I heard? Well, they sure as [****] don't want to play the Warriors. What's new?

I presume one of those schools is Rosecrans (not saying that to name and shame; just acknowledging it's a thorny situation.) I'll have to ask around. My only question is "what's the point in refusing to play there?" I would just not schedule them in as a home game if the goal was to evade playing them. Like, I would get it done to release the officials out of their contracts ASAP. No point in being on the hook to pay for the officials for a JV/V nightcap that is worthless.

I would also think Rosecrans would not want to play Harvest Prep. Rosecrans and Harvest Preps had an altercation for both games. The second game might have been the weirdest game I have ever watched. For the other two, it could be Miller as the travel might be too much for them.

 

[The Dock]

I would also think Rosecrans would not want to play Harvest Prep. Rosecrans and Harvest Preps had an altercation for both games. The second game might have been the weirdest game I have ever watched. For the other two, it could be Miller as the travel might be too much for them.

Another side of the coin: the intents and purposes of the fine rule for failure to play wasn't so teams could write a check and get out of a steamrolling. We all know why the rule exists, right? It's supposed to be a guardrail against failing to field a team (the roots of it are in football where a school would stand to lose four-figure revenue.) I believe the maximum collectable amount for football was actually $5,000, but there may be a condition that says it has to be commensurate with what the school reasonably stood to lose by not hosting the game (in basketball that number may be $500 if they're on the hook for paying the officials on contract.) IIRC, the rule is also written to deter the visiting school from voiding out the game. Which if schools are refusing to play Prep then it would make sense to just void the home game (rising cost of officials vs revenue, risk of not breaking even.)

Miller might stand to lose more $$$ paying the fine (if they're one of the schools) than they would paying the cost of transportation.

 

[The Dock]

Cardinal head coaches by tenure at their current school

Rock - 30 seasons as the head man at BR
Hooper - 12 on the boys side at FCA (50 years of head coaching all in all)
Dennis - 12 on the boys side at HP (20 years of head coaching all in all?)
Timlin - 11-14(?) at GCC (17-20 years of head coaching all in all?)
Bartley - 9(?)
Brown - 6
Coward - 6
McKnight - 4

That's pretty consistent, and super impressive given that the pay isn't great. Not too often you see "4 years" as the shortest tenure these days.

I'll also note that on the girls' side, Matt Little and Ben Bethel each have 15 years of head coaching experience in the Cardinal between their tenures as girls' and boys' coaches.

 

[bballfan48]

Big news for D4 today. GCC, Grandview, East Knox, and Tree are all D3 now.

 

[The Dock]

Big news for D4 today. GCC, Grandview, East Knox, and Tree are all D3 now.

Wellington D4, now.

HP was 2 from being D2.

 

[Snowman8]

Oh man I wonder if this means it'll be back to 1 mega district again. Grandview Heights and Cardington also jumping up to D3.

EDIT: I see Northmor dropped down. I wonder if they'll be in Central District.

 

[The Dock]

Oh man I wonder if this means it'll be back to 1 mega district again. Grandview Heights and Cardington also jumping up to D3.

EDIT: I see Northmor dropped down. I wonder if they'll be in Central District.

They will be.

 

[The Dock]

NC vs NC district final.

 

[SWOHHoops]

Northside Christian:

EMIS - 19 boys
CB - 28 boys

 

[The Dock]

Liberty Christian at 42 (EMIS) + 63 (CB) is another interesting one.

 

[Snowman8]

I don't think some of these small schools understand how it works. No way Liberty Christian had essentially 8-10 transfers on their varsity team last year. At least I wouldn't think so. Almost all of the MOCAL schools have ridiculous CB numbers but other than Northside and maybe Tree I don't remember too many transfers in recent years.

 

[The Dock]

I don't think some of these small schools understand how it works. No way Liberty Christian had essentially 8 transfers on their varsity team last year. At least I wouldn't think so. Almost all of the MOCAL schools have ridiculous CB numbers but other than Northside and maybe Tree I don't remember too many transfers in recent years.

I don’t think it’s so much “transfers” in the case of LCA but rather kids who may have entered into the school as 9th graders that were previously home-schooled or had attended some place like Licking County Christian Academy previously.

 

[The Dock]

I like GCC and don’t mind playing them, but they’re going to be north of the D3/D4 line in hoops along with the D6/D7 line in football for years to come. Might be time for them to fly and make a division with HP, WC, GH, Tree of Life, Wellington maybe KIPP.

 

[bballfan48]

The new rule is establishing residency as a 7th grader. After that, you are counted as a Tier 2 and it hurts. GCC better figure out a facility to compete in D3 basketball. Can you imagine hosting a tournament game in that gym?

 

[The Dock]

GCC better figure out a facility to compete in D3 basketball.

Call Hamilton Township, 'cause they never host tournament games in basketball.

 

[bballfan48]

GCC played Millersport at ODU yesterday in a shootout. Good game action for a summer game. GCC will need to figure out how to contain Levacy. GCC had a few kids back that didn't play last year which helped the depth. Ended up beating Port by 12. I think Port will be in the situation GCC was in last year. Starting 5 and not much off the bench. They need to find a 6th player.

 

[JokesOnYou]

Harvest Prep just finished it’s team camp at NC State. Varsity went 7-0 and JV 6-1. Harvest Prep has also competed at Purdue Fort Wayne, Ohio State, and Ashland. They also beat Pick North.

 

[Zunardo]

Call Hamilton Township, 'cause they never host tournament games in basketball.

Hope you were being facetious.

 

[The Dock]

Heard that FC’s lone returning senior (J Burke) transferred to Logan, so that’s a blow.

 

[bballfan48]

Heard that FC’s lone returning senior (J Burke) transferred to Logan, so that’s a blow.

Is that Burke?

 

[The Dock]

Is that Burke?

Yes. J Burke is indeed Burke.