Massie

[BeaverAchiever]

Off topic but is CM potentially moving to D5 for football? They are already kind of small for a D4 school

I believe this year the bottom cutoff for D-IV was 206. Their male enrollment number is 209. They are very close and should be one of the first moved if the numbers dictate it. I'm not sure but I think that will be determined sometime in the spring.

 

[ChemH20]

The day Coach McSurely decides to be done, is the day Clinton-Massie football is finished! Just my two cents The culture will never be the same without him at the helm!

 

[covidsucks]

Clinton Massie is a very conservative district. Passing any kind of levy would be next to impossible. A lot of lower educated voters and virtually no tax base for support. The district will most likely be taken over by the state. A lot of football people got together in March and raised the money for the turf. The old turf was at least 13 or 14 years old. The replacement money went to other needs in the district. Very sad for the kids however, they've had a nice run for around 30 or so years.

 

[footballsalads43]

I believe this year the bottom cutoff for D-IV was 206. Their male enrollment number is 209. They are very close and should be one of the first moved if the numbers dictate it. I'm not sure but I think that will be determined sometime in the spring.

I think a move to D5 would be great for CM. They would run D5 R20 for the foreseeable future. I’ll be on the lookout for this. I think R16 could look very different next year. IH and Taylor both could be D3 next year.

 

[doubtme]

It was a 16-13 overtime loss in the second round of the playoffs, so maybe isn't the end of the world. How many State Championships does Indian Hill have in the last 20 years? Clinton-Massie has 3(2012,2013,2021) and Indian Hill has 0 so maybe 1920s football isn't so bad.

didn't they beat what the original poster would consider a modern offense in Ursuline in 2021?

 

[footballsalads43]

The day Coach McSurely decides to be done, is the day Clinton-Massie football is finished! Just my two cents The culture will never be the same without him at the helm!

I think they will take a huge step back for sure, but CM lives and dies off of football. I think they would try to keep the culture that McSurely has built and would be a pretty good, but not great team

 

[triple option]

The cut off for D4 is 205, CM is at 209 with a CB of 5 (214). OHSSA does male enrollment #'s for 2 years at a time but CB #'s every year, so there's another year at the enrollment of 209. With open enrollment ending a couple years ago, I see CM in D5 in the next couple to few years.

Last rumor I heard was Coach was staying for a few more years. There's CM grads all over the coaching staff, I personally believe that program is strong and will still have success.

 

[footballsalads43]

The cut off for D4 is 205, CM is at 209 with a CB of 5 (214). OHSSA does male enrollment #'s for 2 years at a time but CB #'s every year, so there's another year at the enrollment of 209. With open enrollment ending a couple years ago, I see CM in D5 in the next couple to few years.

Last rumor I heard was Coach was staying for a few more years. There's CM grads all over the coaching staff, I personally believe that program is strong and will still have success.

I think CM will do extremely well at the D5 level. They will almost assuredly though be seeing Waynesville a lot more, and then a potential CM/Ironton or Wheelersburg playoff matchup would be a fun game

 

[formercardinal]

The cut off for D4 is 205, CM is at 209 with a CB of 5 (214). OHSSA does male enrollment #'s for 2 years at a time but CB #'s every year, so there's another year at the enrollment of 209. With open enrollment ending a couple years ago, I see CM in D5 in the next couple to few years.

Last rumor I heard was Coach was staying for a few more years. There's CM grads all over the coaching staff, I personally believe that program is strong and will still have success.

If the school starts to suffer due to cuts (due to not passing a levy), how long until people start to move out of the district? I know football is king at Massie but parents will move if their kid is only being offered a state minimum education.

 

[covidsucks]

I've golfed a few times at Majestic Springs, great course. Appears to have some very upscale homes going in right next to the course. Would have to believe, due to the districts issues, those homes are going to really level out in value.

 

[triple option]

I think CM will do extremely well at the D5 level. They will almost assuredly though be seeing Waynesville a lot more, and then a potential CM/Ironton or Wheelersburg playoff matchup would be a fun

Agreed, even though I would prefer to stay in D4, seeing new teams brings a new spark to the season. Besides Ironton and Wheelersburg, the MAC teams dabble in D5 time to time. Still tough competition through that division.

I'm glad CM/WV have started playing the regular season again, I'm not sure they would renew if they were in the same division and region. They have played each other a time or 2 in the regular season and post season when WV was in D4.

 

[covidsucks]

I think the issue is that CM's league is sooo bad. they really don't play competitive games for the entire last half of their season. Look at the teams that are left in the playoffs, they've been recently challenged. That's why the MAC dominates at the state level. If they play a soft early schedule then they become just another terrible SBAAC team.

 

[footballsalads43]

I think the issue is that CM's league is sooo bad. they really don't play competitive games for the entire last half of their season. Look at the teams that are left in the playoffs, they've been recently challenged. That's why the MAC dominates at the state level. If they play a soft early schedule then they become just another terrible SBAAC team.

While you’re not wrong by any means, I agree that the other SBAAC schools can’t compete with CM in football, I don’t think they are holding CM back as much as people think. CM won 2 state titles in the SCOL which was arguably even less competitive than the SBAAC and they just won in 2021. CM makes up for it with non league games and that’s even what McSurely said back during the 2021 state run.

 

[CMorris_99]

You are right. The sbaac is just as good as the SCOL. Problem is that CM keeps getting in these leagues. Would have loved to see them in the SWBL. Whether people believe it or not it would have been a great fit for all sports. Even the other boys and girls sports schedule SWBL teams and fair just as well as they do in the sbaac or SCOL. The difference between the SWBL and the Sbaac is this, and it goes for all sports. The good teams in the SWBL are way better than the good teams in the Sbaac and the bad teams in the Sbaac are way worse than the bad ones in the SWBL.

 

[covidsucks]

I think that ship has sailed. CM and they're supporters need to just settle in for the foreseeable future and accept the mediocre SBAAC. I think if I'm not mistaken CM and Wilmington had a chance to get out several years ago, but the leaders of both districts decided contentment.

 

[footballsalads43]

You are right. The sbaac is just as good as the SCOL. Problem is that CM keeps getting in these leagues. Would have loved to see them in the SWBL. Whether people believe it or not it would have been a great fit for all sports. Even the other boys and girls sports schedule SWBL teams and fair just as well as they do in the sbaac or SCOL. The difference between the SWBL and the Sbaac is this, and it goes for all sports. The good teams in the SWBL are way better than the good teams in the Sbaac and the bad teams in the Sbaac are way worse than the bad ones in the SWBL

My theory is that CM was offered a spot in the SWBL, but with the small schools (valley view, waynesville, etc.) and they wanted to be with the big schools so they declined. I also think the SWBL has little to no interest In Wilmington, and CM and Wilmington seem to want to stick together.

I think CM would be a good fit with the smaller schools, especially once they become D5. But they are just too small to be with the big schools. All of the big schools are D2/D3 and even the D3 schools are borderline D2. CM is just too small to fit with them. I think the SWBL big school division really wants to get D2/D3 schools only. And while Wilmington is a D3 school they would struggle mightly in the SWBL big school division, and CM outside of football wouldn’t be too great either. I think the SWBL next target for expansion is Harrison and someone else.

I would guess CM ended up in the SCOL because travel was great in that league, and then back in the SBAAC due to no viable other options. As of now the SBAAC is their best option, especially with the districts financial struggles and with the travel situation being pretty fair in the SBAAC. Not sure what other leagues would take them (and Wilmington).

 

[footballsalads43]

I think that ship has sailed. CM and they're supporters need to just settle in for the foreseeable future and accept the mediocre SBAAC. I think if I'm not mistaken CM and Wilmington had a chance to get out several years ago, but the leaders of both districts decided contentment.

CM and Wilmington were just put in a tough spot when the SCOL disbanded and they were going to be homeless, and the SBAAC offered them a home and they want to be loyal to the league. I believe both schools applied to the GWOC, and got denied (when the GWOC still had all the MVL schools). Maybe if the MVL had existed in 2016 they would’ve let CM/Wilmington in? I don’t know if they applied to the SWBL when that all went down. But the SWBL was much different. I know the SWOC was interested in CM at some point. But as for today, they will be in the SBAAC for the foreseeable future. I don’t see anywhere the 2 schools can go.

 

[covidsucks]

Another example of just how bad this league is, both divisions of the SBC only won a game last year in the state bb tournament. I can't think of another league where you can win the league and get a low seed in the tournament. No coaches respect this league when it comes to tournament drawls. Also, Wilmington and the other Clinton county schools get zero media coverage. CM is 30 minutes from Dayton and can't even get their football team in a media poll. Same thing for Cincinnati media. Clinton county is the black whole for sports coverage.

 

[triple option]

I used to get caught up in that schedule stuff, and its still possible that the players get used to these blow out games at the end of the season and shows in the playoffs. That's where the coaching staff has to have them ready. Pro's - easy games get players rest going into the playoffs, easy league play usually still gets you in the playoffs if you go 0-5 from scheduling too tough of opponents. We lost our 3 year starter at RB(foot)by Harrison, our best D-lineman (knee) vs Coldwater and arguably our best O-lineman (leg) vs Waynesville. Injuries can happen in any game but id say as the competition picks up so does the risk of injury. Con's are possibility becoming complacent since you roll into the playoffs on a 2 game blow out, WB was 14-7 at half (that was a sign).

Sometimes the other team is just better. Hence IH at CM, in my opinion, THAT night IH was the better team. However somethings played in their favor, Statistically the QB had his best game of the year, passed for 219 yards against CM surpassing his best game of the year by over 100 yards , not TD's but come up big on 3rd downs and keeping drives alive, defensively Massie couldn't get off the field most the night.( FYI He threw 5 int's vs Taft) IH field goal kicker was 1-4 all year long and he went 3-4 that night at CM including a 42 yarder, 35, and 32. Doesn't help that the CM offense was pretty stale all night. But back to statistics, this years running game was the lowest since CM came back to the SBAAC 8 years ago (3220yds). 700 yards less than 2023, 800 less than 2022, 2150 less than 2021, 550 less than 2020(covid), 400 less than 2019, 850 less than 2018 and 900 less than 2017. Now there' factors in those numbers like amount of games in a season, the competition each year and pulling starters. But that's down a lot of yards.

Anyways, back to the point I was trying to make, with 4 state appearances and 3 championships in the last 13 years its hard to say the schedule makes or brakes a team cuz lord knows the SBAAC and SCOL were far from tough leagues yet CM beat the best privates and publics on their way to state 4 different times. Then throw in the success Wyoming has had, and their league which is normally pretty bad also. So I can see the argument on both sides but at the end of the day you got to play who the powers above put in front of you.

 

[WJ-OSU-STEELERS]

I believe this year the bottom cutoff for D-IV was 206. Their male enrollment number is 209. They are very close and should be one of the first moved if the numbers dictate it. I'm not sure but I think that will be determined sometime in the spring.

There is no guarantee that Massie will drop. Yes, they could have a large class graduating and the 9th grade to be class might be smaller but whose to say there isn’t 3 or 4 schools in a similar situation? You fall where you fall and then you go out and compete.

As for how will Massie be if/when McSurley leaves, I hope they can remain the power they have become. However, history says once a culture changing legendary coach leaves, the program typically takes a step back. You think it never will happen to you but look:
* Amanda Clearcreek - not the same once Hinton left
* Newark Catholic - it’s been 25+ years since JD Graham left & NC has win a state title or two since but they are no where near the program they once were
* Cleveland St Ignatius - look at their record in the 3 years since Kyle left

If it can happene to these 3 storied programs it definitely can happen to Massie.

I’d guess Massie will want to go with either a longtime assistant or former player/alumn as the next head coach whenever that may be. I can’t see an outsider coming in and Massie going to the spread.

Good luck to Massie & McSurley, he’s earned the right to go out on his terms.

 

[covidsucks]

A school district either inclines or declines. The voters have chosen the latter. When a school with the tradition of once excellence can't even provide a safe running surface for they're children, is just pure selfishness. Sad that land barons and slum lords that control the majority of wealth in the district allows this to happen. The younger teachers need to polish up their resumes and flee this taco stand as soon as possible. When the state takes over the district they won't have a choice.

 

[ChemH20]

There is no guarantee that Massie will drop. Yes, they could have a large class graduating and the 9th grade to be class might be smaller but whose to say there isn’t 3 or 4 schools in a similar situation? You fall where you fall and then you go out and compete.

As for how will Massie be if/when McSurley leaves, I hope they can remain the power they have become. However, history says once a culture changing legendary coach leaves, the program typically takes a step back. You think it never will happen to you but look:
* Amanda Clearcreek - not the same once Hinton left
* Newark Catholic - it’s been 25+ years since JD Graham left & NC has win a state title or two since but they are no where near the program they once were
* Cleveland St Ignatius - look at their record in the 3 years since Kyle left

If it can happene to these 3 storied programs it definitely can happen to Massie.

I’d guess Massie will want to go with either a longtime assistant or former player/alumn as the next head coach whenever that may be. I can’t see an outsider coming in and Massie going to the spread.

Good luck to Massie & McSurley, he’s earned the right to go out on his terms.

Best post on this thread so far.. Spot on!

 

[footballsalads43]

I used to get caught up in that schedule stuff, and its still possible that the players get used to these blow out games at the end of the season and shows in the playoffs. That's where the coaching staff has to have them ready. Pro's - easy games get players rest going into the playoffs, easy league play usually still gets you in the playoffs if you go 0-5 from scheduling too tough of opponents. We lost our 3 year starter at RB(foot)by Harrison, our best D-lineman (knee) vs Coldwater and arguably our best O-lineman (leg) vs Waynesville. Injuries can happen in any game but id say as the competition picks up so does the risk of injury. Con's are possibility becoming complacent since you roll into the playoffs on a 2 game blow out, WB was 14-7 at half (that was a sign).

Sometimes the other team is just better. Hence IH at CM, in my opinion, THAT night IH was the better team. However somethings played in their favor, Statistically the QB had his best game of the year, passed for 219 yards against CM surpassing his best game of the year by over 100 yards , not TD's but come up big on 3rd downs and keeping drives alive, defensively Massie couldn't get off the field most the night.( FYI He threw 5 int's vs Taft) IH field goal kicker was 1-4 all year long and he went 3-4 that night at CM including a 42 yarder, 35, and 32. Doesn't help that the CM offense was pretty stale all night. But back to statistics, this years running game was the lowest since CM came back to the SBAAC 8 years ago (3220yds). 700 yards less than 2023, 800 less than 2022, 2150 less than 2021, 550 less than 2020(covid), 400 less than 2019, 850 less than 2018 and 900 less than 2017. Now there' factors in those numbers like amount of games in a season, the competition each year and pulling starters. But that's down a lot of yards.

Anyways, back to the point I was trying to make, with 4 state appearances and 3 championships in the last 14 years its hard to say the schedule makes or brakes a team cuz lord knows the SBAAC and SCOL were far from tough leagues yet CM beat the best privates and publics on their way to state 4 different times. Then throw in the success Wyoming has had, and their league which is normally pretty bad also. So I can see the argument on both sides but at the end of the day you got to play who the powers above put in front of you.

Great post! Couldn’t have said it better.

 

[headlock91]

Dang who ever wrote this post needs to have a psychiatric evaluation. Mcsurely built the clinton massie program from the ground up. Pretty sure last year they had injuries in the back field and again this year one of thier main rbs also got Injured. They were a bad terrible penalty away from advancing to the next round this year. They one of the smaller schools In thier division yet every year they compete for a state championship. Look at other schools in the area with similar situations tell me how much success they've had ? If you've ever met coach mcsurely you would know there is noone else more passionate about CM football .