I like to believe that sometimes teams just go on runs and finish their season strong. Knowing who is the best team in the state in Jan is not much fun. Or even thinking we know who is the best team. I like the idea that the tournament games can be won by anyone in the top 15. Makes for good games and fans will come out.
Martin RPI
- Thread starter Hback
- Start date
It's not often. I have usually said at the beggining of the tournament I will take the field and give you the number one and something like 80% of the time that works out for me.Obviously unfamiliar with Hoban as that is how they played most games this year going 25-3 before the final game. PC must have done that a few times as they had close games with Westerville South, Olentangy Orange and Centerville. Those 3 and Hoban must not have gotten your memo that PC was the best time in the state.
Curious to know. If you have access to past info. How many times did the #1 ranked team in state win the D1 title since 2000.
Sometimes I think the AP just is ignorant in their vote such as 2013 when VASJ was in D4. I had studied their schedule and results pretty thoroughly that year and was certain they were the best team in the state while having a few losses. But it was undefeated Tri Village who was ranked number one, and they lost at regionals. It is very difficult to win even when you are the best. By that I mean there are many times where I see an upset, and still consider the team that lost better than the team that beat them.
@spirit454 interesting update tweeted by Martin today. Paraphrasing:
-He was told by OHSBCA RPI would be used statewide
-He was later told by OHSAA that it would not be used and MaxPreps would be used going forward.
I am 100% against using either for seeding, but made to choose between the two I would take Martin all day everyday. If true, another terrible decision by OHSAA.
Seems appropriate for me to point out MaxPreps had PC ranked 10th in D1 after the state championship
-He was told by OHSBCA RPI would be used statewide
-He was later told by OHSAA that it would not be used and MaxPreps would be used going forward.
I am 100% against using either for seeding, but made to choose between the two I would take Martin all day everyday. If true, another terrible decision by OHSAA.
Seems appropriate for me to point out MaxPreps had PC ranked 10th in D1 after the state championship
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I have no info on MaxPreps formula but I'm guessing they told OHSAA they would copy the Martin formula and put it on their site which has ads/commercials and they would pay OHSAA to do it.@spirit454 interesting update tweeted by Martin today. Paraphrasing:
-He was told by OHSBCA RPI would be used statewide
-He was later told by OHSAA that it would not be used and MaxPreps would be used going forward.
I am 100% against using either for seeding, but made to choose between the two I would take Martin all day everyday. If true, another terrible decision by OHSAA.
Seems appropriate for me to point out MaxPreps had PC ranked 10th in D1 after the state championship
*67
Well-known member
The OHSAA will simply mandate schools to put all of their information into MaxPreps, which will increase traffic for their website, which increases the amount they can pay the OHSAA. Then, if the information isn't right on MaxPreps, the schools will be to blame. It's a win for MaxPreps, a win for the OHSAA, and gigantic loss for the schools. So, pretty much par for the course as far as the OHSAA is concerned.
RollingTrain
Well-known member
jj150
Active member
First I applaud you for your efforts. You can read my responses and yes I disagree with any formula for HS seeds etc. However, you did provide good discussion, possibly too much discussion. Maybe next time stay more on the outside of discussion boards and keep your discussions with the main people involved. Yappi is a nice board but we are all basically sport junkies who like to throw our 2 cents into any topic that trips the trigger. Did not see max preps boasting about anything. I am guessing they were negotiating with the people who matter instead of jj150 and the likes. Anyway if you think you have something keep pushing it. However, I wouldn’t burn too many bridges if you are moving forward Just my unsolicited 2 cents
Efforts?? I'm just giving an opinion about what may be going on. I had heard before that a Martin formula was in the works for a test group and the plan was to use it state wide and eventually in other sports. I had no idea it would go to MaxPreps or how. Martin used Arbiter info to get the statewide schedules and scores for his formula and I assume MaxPreps will do the same. OR they could use the site the officials use as it would have to be kept up to date and accurate. Either way, I was only pointing out it will not be someone sitting at a desk making calls to schools all over the state trying to get info one by one.
Update: Eric Frantz, MaxPreps Ohio representative, said on Twitter since MP is already a partner of OHSAA they will actually be saving money by using them as opposed to paying someone else to do it. Unfortunately fans like us that just want it done well will probably be disappointed.
I've said it 500 times on this thread, the coaches vote was not so egregious that they had to do this. They've taken something that has worked for many years and voluntarily turned it into a crap show. Also interesting that OHSBCA sent a survey around the state asking about Martin RPI and OHSAA turned around and gave the work to its partner. Classic OHSAA.
I've said it 500 times on this thread, the coaches vote was not so egregious that they had to do this. They've taken something that has worked for many years and voluntarily turned it into a crap show. Also interesting that OHSBCA sent a survey around the state asking about Martin RPI and OHSAA turned around and gave the work to its partner. Classic OHSAA.
cincyhoops
Well-known member
So is maxpreps being used statewide for seeding this year for basketball?
Sounds that way...the Martin guy said Ute told him basketball, baseball, softball and other team sports would use MaxPreps
Insane92
Location: South Jersey
You realize they still place themselves based on seeding correct? Even with using the RPI. That only puts them in order based on seeding.
My business/law sense tells me they will be using their own formula, or pay Martin RPI for his, which I seriously doubt happens. I'm good with Maxpreps formula, if they get the correct data. I used to enter some data for them but in recent years their schedules have been so screwed up I would have to email them to correct incorrect schedules and that took too much time so I stopped correcting. They will have to have a person responsible for schedule accuracy and reporting or it wont matter what formula they use.
The MP formula has proven to be very poor and unreliable mainly due to their weak attempt to get schedules and game results. Since everyone knows what the formula that was used for the NW teams last season it would be very easy and free to duplicate it with a couple minor changes to arguably make it better. I'm guessing that MP will be given access to the Arbiter system in some way, to allow them to load every team's correct schedule and results.
Unless Maxpreps and the OHSAA somehow force teams/coaches to get their info entered correctly it's going to be a disaster. There are basketball teams that only have 10 games listed.....and a lot of times the same game is shown twice (and counted in the record). There will be a lot of unhappy people that are forced to take over doing what MartinRPI did for them.
CleveHoopFan08
Active member
Yeah and wait until they have games doubled up or exhibition games included.
Max Preps will attempt to do this with as little expense and assets as possible to maximize margins because clearly people aren't paying for their service as much as they and everyone thinks and the revenue stream perhaps isn't there?
I pose this. Should OHSAA do their due diligence and ask to open their books and look at their business inside out?
The current MP system is a joke and lazily monitored. Schools already use the Arbiter system for their schedules. It is correct and updated with changes because this was also the system used to hire and/or pay many of the sports officials. The previous MP system was not connected directly to anything the schools used. For this to be successful MP will have to connect to what is being used. If this formula relies on adding to the workload of coaches or school admins, it will fail because it is not currently 100% supported and there are those that would like to see it crash and burn.
Some of the MP problem is they are linked with HUDL and not everyone uses HUDL. Or some coaches list scrimmages in their schedule to record and use the film and that gets linked to the MP schedule.
The issue isn't so much the formula as it is getting all of the information / schedules / scores entered and updated correctly. I would say that less than half of the HS teams in the state had their Maxpreps page correct, current and updated. Heck, it was usually Tuesday until Maxpreps had their numbers updated from the previous weekend. Martin's RPI was usually updated by 8am the morning after the games were played. With MartinRPI the Friday night games before the Sunday tourney draw were included in the rankings to determine seeding. That's going to be tough to do if Maxpreps isn't updated until Tuesday lolBoy, sure does seem easier to just have the coaches vote to determine seeding
Someone mentioned above, but what is stopping OHSAA/MP from just stealing Martin's formula? There are smart people on this thread that can tell you exactly how it works.
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I know of a couple districts where 8-9 seeds play the pigtail and the 1 seed gets the winner , as 1 example. Been a lot of upsets because 8-9 winner played a game. Also the travel is brutal ,sometimes, if you can’t pick your own line. That’s why I have a problem if all districts do this.
thePITman
Well-known member
Wait, hold on. MaxPreps has been the "official partner of scores and data" for many OHSAA sports for a while so that would be nothing new for basketball. However, for baseball, the seeding was still done via voting by coaches. Are you guys saying that the actual SEEDS would be determined by MaxPreps, too? Or just they're now the official partner, like in other sports?
If seeds are going to be determined by MaxPreps, that is just WRONG. My 5-year old daughter could rank teams better than MaxPreps.
If seeds are going to be determined by MaxPreps, that is just WRONG. My 5-year old daughter could rank teams better than MaxPreps.
goshengophers
Active member
Maxpreps uses a system devised by Ned Freeman, a former Drake University basketball player and mathematician. I can't find any explanation of his system on the internet however.
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
Maybe MaxPreps has gotten better over the years but I remember seeing alot of missing scores, incorrect scores, and incorrect teams with similar names.
I imagine that the schools will have to police their own schedules/records posted by MaxPreps and probably the reason MaxPreps wants the job. This means alot more eyeballs and advertising dollars from becoming the official record keeper.
I imagine that the schools will have to police their own schedules/records posted by MaxPreps and probably the reason MaxPreps wants the job. This means alot more eyeballs and advertising dollars from becoming the official record keeper.
I believe that all team sports seeding will be using MaxPreps starting this year except for football.