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The Dock

Well-known member

It appears the primary crux is the students had asked permission to carry them, they were told “no” and did it anyways.
 

brianwr112

Well-known member

It appears the primary crux is the students had asked permission to carry them, they were told “no” and did it anyways.
And we see who the communities siding with. Superintendent probably should've thought this through a little better.
 

KingKong24

Well-known member
I think on 9/11 of all days, the boys should have absolutely been allowed to run out with those flags. However they were told not to by the administration and did it anyways. For that they should face consequences.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
I think on 9/11 of all days, the boys should have absolutely been allowed to run out with those flags. However they were told not to by the administration and did it anyways. For that they should face consequences.
And we see who the communities siding with. Superintendent probably should've thought this through a little better.
I think most people can agree that a suspension is pretty outsized for what was done, and that LM isn’t handling this that well. It probably would’ve been best for LM to let them run onto the field with the flags, and note that it was a students’ request related to a particular event with the district deciding for themselves if they endorse/don’t endorse the flags.

This really is a case of (likely) well-meaning administration officials not having any consciousness or expedience on how to handle expression topics as it relates to messaging viewed to be ‘polarizing.’

That said, I think the outrage so to speak is somewhat misplaced and a bit disingenuous as well. If they ran a banner that said “Bong Hits 4 Jesus” after being told not to, they would’ve likely gotten in trouble for the same reason they are now.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
It's disheartening to see a well paid administrator make such a stupid decision. First not letting the kids carry the flag out was wrong. Honoring police & firefighters around 9/11 has become a tradition. What the hell has happened to change that? And don't tell me "George Floyd" the two are not and should not be related.

But where this clown of a superintendent really screwed up is the penalty. If this guy had a lick of common sense the boys would have been punished at practice. Their "offense" cried out for wind sprints after practice on Monday.

IMO those administrators who decided to suspend the kids should lose their jobs. This wasn't a tough call, especially the punishment. If I was a Little Miami tax payer I would be be concerned at the lack of common sense displayed by the administration here.
 
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lotr10

Well-known member
This really is a case of (likely) well-meaning administration officials not having any consciousness or expedience on how to handle expression topics as it relates to messaging viewed to be ‘polarizing.’
I dispute that these administrators were in any way well meaning. The punishment they gave the boys indicates that they're petty, vindictive little tyrants. Their decision to not let the boys carry the flags out smacks of insufferable political correctness.

For the last 20 years how many times have we seen kids carry the police flag out on the anniversary of 9/11? I suspect that in the past Little Miami has honored first responders on the anniversary of 9/11.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
It's disheartening to see a well paid administrator make such a stupid decision. First not letting the kids carry the flag out was wrong. Honoring police & firefighters around 9/11 has become a tradition. What the hell has happened to change that?
It was a tradition to specifically honor FDNY and NYPD, not making 9/11 a reason to carry “the Thin Blue Line.“

And don' tell me "George Floyd" the two are not and should not be related.
...you’re who brought it up? LOL
 

lotr10

Well-known member
It was a tradition to specifically honor FDNY and NYPD, not making 9/11 a reason to carry “the Thin Blue Line.“


...you’re who brought it up? LOL
Wrong on your first point. The ones I saw extended the honor to all first responders.

And if it wasn't the current anti-police climate among a small minority of Americans why would they not let the kids carry out that flag? Why is it considered controversial? Supporting the police wasn't controversial all that long ago.
 

nupanther

Well-known member
This sounds a little similar to Chardon. Although I cant remember what punishment, if any, that the Chardon players received. But you gotta look at the bigger picture IMO. What if the team decided to bring out a gay pride flag on the anniversary of the Pulse nightclub shooting? Would everybody be ok with that? How about an African red, black and green flag during the national anthem on MLK Day? All senseless tragedies with innocent victims. But if you do for one you gotta do for all. That's why these administrators dont want to open that door.
 

GLAT

Inactive
I think of this like an HOA. Recently someone put a bunch of signs up saying thanks to the local police department in my HOA. Many of us called and stated that if we let these signs stay up...what next? It isn't the message but the long term consequences. Also many students these days just don't listen to authority and I'm glad the administration put their foot down.
 

Manmythlegeng66

Active member
I think of this like an HOA. Recently someone put a bunch of signs up saying thanks to the local police department in my HOA. Many of us called and stated that if we let these signs stay up...what next? It isn't the message but the long term consequences. Also many students these days just don't listen to authority and I'm glad the administration put their foot down.
The biggest issue is the boys knew and understood there would be consequences and have accepted them. These 2 kids were representatives of the team. From my understanding the team decided to do it as a team. I dont believe they thought they would be suspended indefinitely for this. I believe they thought maybe miss a game or benched. But this is a situation where the punishment does not fit the crime here.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Their problem was asking for permission. Cannot be told no if you dont ask, and then beg for foregiveness.

WOnder if they asked to carry a sBLM banner if they would have been allowed. Can you imagine the shartstorm if it came out a school would not allow a blm flag? Racist racist raciss.

It appears the primary crux is the students had asked permission to carry them, they were told “no” and did it anyways.
 
Sure seems like, from the article, they are limiting any flags that could be considered to create issues or divisiveness. Rather than pick and choose what is allowed they just said no to all flags that aren't school based. If this is not the case, then this situation gets very hairy, very quickly. Let's be honest, school admin are going to say no because they don't want to deal with the phone calls and complaints about allowing it.

Now, they deserve a punishment but kicked off the team or a season long suspension seems excessive.
 

PeterDragon

Active member
Why did the coach let them do it after they were told no? Did he have to answer to the Super? That being said, I think the punishment out weighs the crime.
 

2020Dad

Member
This sounds a little similar to Chardon. Although I cant remember what punishment, if any, that the Chardon players received. But you gotta look at the bigger picture IMO. What if the team decided to bring out a gay pride flag on the anniversary of the Pulse nightclub shooting? Would everybody be ok with that? How about an African red, black and green flag during the national anthem on MLK Day? All senseless tragedies with innocent victims. But if you do for one you gotta do for all. That's why these administrators dont want to open that door.
The school has to protect itself from chaos. Allowing these students to bring in flags would have opened the door for people of all different interests to bring in flags for organizations that they support. The easiest way to manage it is to just limit it to the american flag and the school flags. Sounds like the school took this step and even informed the young men that they were not to bring the flags but they did it anyway, thus there are consequences. Not sure what the actual penalty was but they made a choice and our choices have consequences. Hopefully the consequences are not too harsh.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
That particular flag brings out a lot of emotions in folks.

My suggestion to the kids would have been to come up with another way to show respect for these folks. I think one has a parent on the force, maybe he could have gotten something else from the Chief to show support for Little Miami's finest like the city flag their honor guard uses or allow the kid to wear a police patch on the uni.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
The school has to protect itself from chaos. Allowing these students to bring in flags would have opened the door for people of all different interests to bring in flags for organizations that they support. The easiest way to manage it is to just limit it to the american flag and the school flags. Sounds like the school took this step and even informed the young men that they were not to bring the flags but they did it anyway, thus there are consequences. Not sure what the actual penalty was but they made a choice and our choices have consequences. Hopefully the consequences are not too harsh.
This is the classic argument against letting the kids bring the flag out. I get it. But that horse had already left the barn when it comes to honoring first responders around the 9/11 anniversary. I remember years ago watching Fairfield play an away game and the kids came out with the American flag and that blue stripe flag. I had never seen it before and asked what it was. When told I thought that is was appropriate for that day.

As far as consequences go sure the boys should suffer some. But suspending them from the team is grossly disproportionate. Maybe I'm an old fart but I remember my coaches had all sorts of ways to dish out consequences at practice. And that is where the consequences should be enforced.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
Sure seems like, from the article, they are limiting any flags that could be considered to create issues or divisiveness. Rather than pick and choose what is allowed they just said no to all flags that aren't school based. If this is not the case, then this situation gets very hairy, very quickly. Let's be honest, school admin are going to say no because they don't want to deal with the phone calls and complaints about allowing it.

Now, they deserve a punishment but kicked off the team or a season long suspension seems excessive.
Would that include the American flag?
 

lotr10

Well-known member
This sounds a little similar to Chardon. Although I cant remember what punishment, if any, that the Chardon players received. But you gotta look at the bigger picture IMO. What if the team decided to bring out a gay pride flag on the anniversary of the Pulse nightclub shooting? Would everybody be ok with that? How about an African red, black and green flag during the national anthem on MLK Day? All senseless tragedies with innocent victims. But if you do for one you gotta do for all. That's why these administrators dont want to open that door.
Interesting questions. First I think the anniversary of 9/11 is different primarily becuse for the last 20 years first responders have been celebrated at a lot of high school stadiums across Ohio. And this includes the police flag. It's a tradition now which makes it different then the eamples you gave - at least the PRIDE one.

For the record I would have no problem with students carrying out a special flag to honor Martin Luther King on his holiday at a Basketball game. Like the celebrations honoring police & firefighters around 9/11 using a prop to honor King around his day seems appropriate.

IMO an administrator should be able to draw the line before it became a farce. That's what they're paid to do. I've always thought zero tolerance policies were for the mentally lazy and risk averse and are just as bad as political correctness.
 

oxat622

Well-known member
I live in the district and the administration is getting dragged across the various neighborhood groups on social media. Some calling for the superintendent's job. Some calling for others to vote NO on the levy in November (it is a crucial levy, too).

Look, Little Miami has to take the action they did. There are plenty of legal outcomes involving school districts, including Supreme Court cases, that were ruled a certain way because a precedent was already set. Very few people in this community seem to understand that. They interpret the punishment as an anti-police and firefighters stance. It's a pretty conservative community, so... you can imagine.

I've followed college football and basketball closely enough to read about plenty of "indefinite suspensions". I haven't seen a news source confirm it, but the discussion is saying they are suspended from the team and not school. Honestly, the punishment sounds like CYA window dressing. There absolutely would come a point where if the suspension isn't lifted, it becomes excessive. IMO, anything more than one game is way too much.
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
I live in the district and the administration is getting dragged across the various neighborhood groups on social media. Some calling for the superintendent's job. Some calling for others to vote NO on the levy in November (it is a crucial levy, too).

Look, Little Miami has to take the action they did. There are plenty of legal outcomes involving school districts, including Supreme Court cases, that were ruled a certain way because a precedent was already set. Very few people in this community seem to understand that. They interpret the punishment as an anti-police and firefighters stance. It's a pretty conservative community, so... you can imagine.

I've followed college football and basketball closely enough to read about plenty of "indefinite suspensions". I haven't seen a news source confirm it, but the discussion is saying they are suspended from the team and not school. Honestly, the punishment sounds like CYA window dressing. There absolutely would come a point where if the suspension isn't lifted, it becomes excessive. IMO, anything more than one game is way too much.
This is going to cost Little Miami quite a bit in the long run IMHO. LM knows first-hand what crucial levy failures will do; and this story can most definitely impact that levy. LM is WAY conservative and this punishment / story will not sit well with the voters.

Little Miami did NOT have to take this action. Unless there is a specific written policy where "No other flags or other versions of American flags" are allowed, then there is definitely grounds for a lawsuit, as they impeded on those students' first amendment rights. Would any players be suspended if they knelt during the National Anthem or protested the National Anthem in some way? This can cost LM quite a bit in legal costs to try to defend their actions if this makes it to the courts. Do not be surprised if this makes it to the court system and serves as a precedent for 1st amendment limitations regarding schools and their authority to limit such freedoms of expression.
 

dhsdog06

Well-known member
I think it's hilarious that the same people who get upset about DISRESPECTING MAH FLAG can't see that the thin blue line flag is directly disrespectful, according to the actual code of conduct for the flag.

That said, this is way overblown. No reason to suspend them, even if told no.
 
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