Jim Harbaugh

Omar

Well-known member
Michigan has historically recruited California strongly as well.
Michigan can recruit nationally, at least to some degree. But they need to win in state first. They used to get a good amount of players from NE Ohio, but that well has dried up
 

Omar

Well-known member
Basically agree. To the best of my knowledge, the president has never met the team, hasn’t talked to Harbaugh in six weeks and is all about academics. When I was involved with UM they had a cool saying, “Where academic excellence and athletic excellence meet.” I’m not sure UM will ever get back to being a top notch program. They did come within one very questionable call in the second overtime against Ohio State which would have put them in the playoffs in 2016. Harbaugh caught he’ll from the administration for throwing his clipboard down! Amazing! You have to have the administration pulling with you as opposed to against you.
You can’t convince me that game wasn’t the impetus for this downward spiral. If he gets that win, I think things look totally Difft.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Athletics is more than football. I don't think Michigan is in danger of needing to retire their slogan. But Harbaugh's utter failure given the recruits is worth figuring out.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
Still lead the nation in all-time winning percentage and number of victories but yes, currently, something must be done. Must recruit better, better coaching and get back to recruiting in Ohio.
Good luck with that. Ohio isn’t producing enough blue chippers for the Buckeyes, as it is. I believe only 3 of 22 OSU starters against Rutgers were from Ohio high schools.
 

Summa

Well-known member
Good luck with that. Ohio isn’t producing enough blue chippers for the Buckeyes, as it is. I believe only 3 of 22 OSU starters against Rutgers were from Ohio high schools.
That was my exact point earlier. People on this board take offense to the fact that Ohio high school talent is not nearly as deep as it used to be. I am from Ohio, love football and wish this was not the case, but it is. I remember when 16 to 18 of Ohio State's 22 starters were from Ohio and they were still a top 5 team in the final polls. Those days are pretty much over. Ohio still has the most talent north of the Mason-Dixon line, just not as much as in the past. Georgia has passed Ohio up and Louisiana per capita pretty much has the top high school talent in the nation.
 
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cjb56

Well-known member
That was my exact point earlier. People on this board take offense to the fact that Ohio high school talent is not nearly as deep as it used to be. I am from Ohio, love football and wish this was not the case, but it is. I remember when 16 to 18 of Ohio State's 22 starters were from Ohio and they were still a top 5 team in the final polls. Those days are pretty much over. Ohio still has the most talent north of the Mason-Dixon line, just not as much as in the past. Georgia has passed Ohio up and Louisiana per capita pretty much has the top high school talent state in the nation.
Northern Ohio is not growing at all, so the talent pool is drying up from Toledo to Youngstown and everyplace in between. It will still produce a few OSU-worthy players, but not many. SWO and especially the Columbus areas are the growth areas in Ohio and most future in-state Buckeyes will come from those areas more and more.

If you look at where Ohioans are migrating on this map, it pretty much mirrors OSU’s main recruiting areas. Only the DC metro area and NJ are missing. Of course the Buckeyes will go after any kid in any state, but the map pretty much hits the Buckeyes current recruiting priority areas:

 

Gh0st

Well-known member
Ohio State currently has a higher APR than Michigan. So the academic argument is a non-starter.
 

warren1st

Active member
Ohio State currently has a higher APR than Michigan. So the academic argument is a non-starter.
You’re comparing OSU to UM academics? Get real. Yes, Ohio State is doing well with their APR which simply means the student athlete is IMPROVING in academic achievement. In 2019 Michigan had 14 teams with perfect scores.

To be fair, ask most OSU grads to compare the two schools. Well, except that loud mouth, Michigan hater Kirk Herbstreit, most will agree that while Ohio State is getting better, they can’t compare to UM. I’m talking about academics throughout the universities.

btw, don’t worry - you will get your pounds of flesh from UM a week from Saturday.....
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
You’re comparing OSU to UM academics? Get real. Yes, Ohio State is doing well with their APR which simply means the student athlete is IMPROVING in academic achievement. In 2019 Michigan had 14 teams with perfect scores.

To be fair, ask most OSU grads to compare the two schools. Well, except that loud mouth, Michigan hater Kirk Herbstreit, most will agree that while Ohio State is getting better, they can’t compare to UM. I’m talking about academics throughout the universities.

btw, don’t worry - you will get your pounds of flesh from UM a week from Saturday.....
Nobody said OSU's academics were better. The academic argument for why Michigan cant compete with OSU is garbage. That's what we're saying.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
You’re comparing OSU to UM academics? Get real. Yes, Ohio State is doing well with their APR which simply means the student athlete is IMPROVING in academic achievement. In 2019 Michigan had 14 teams with perfect scores.

To be fair, ask most OSU grads to compare the two schools. Well, except that loud mouth, Michigan hater Kirk Herbstreit, most will agree that while Ohio State is getting better, they can’t compare to UM. I’m talking about academics throughout the universities.

btw, don’t worry - you will get your pounds of flesh from UM a week from Saturday.....
Still waiting for 1 OSU recruit in the last 3 years who would have been denied entry to Michigan. You've been oddly silent.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
In regards to football, 10-15 years ago Jim Harbaugh got in hot water for making fun of UM sticking football players in easy majors that made them largely unemployable in anything other than football without continued studies. Many at the time called him a "traitor" and "not a Michigan man."

UM is about as good as it gets as a public academic institution, but for about as long as I can recall a big chunk of their roster has seemed to be majoring in kinesiology or general studies with underclassmen going about as long as possible before declaring a major course of study. The overwhelming majority of these guys aren't getting the typical UM educational experience.
 

warren1st

Active member
Still waiting for 1 OSU recruit in the last 3 years who would have been denied entry to Michigan. You've been oddly silent.
I really didn’t know you asked me a question. I honestly don’t follow your recruits or OSU and since I’m an old guy and argued O-M for years , let’s just say you’re right and leave it at that. I’ve been around Bo and Don Canham when both groused different players whom they really liked were not accepted by UM. Regardless, though way too liberal for me, it is a great academic institution.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
You’re comparing OSU to UM academics? Get real.
and surprisingly, it's not as disparate as most would think. Michigan's school to the De'troit ultra riche rep is longer term but Buck St didn't waste all the state money they've hogged with inflated enrollments and sad academics back in the 60s and 70s. They actually put it to work and are not that far removed from UM. Their association with Battelle hasn't hurt. Neither though even remotely resembles the land grant they're supposed to be.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
Hearing some chatter that Dan Mullen is a hot name for Univ Texas & some NFL gigs. I don't get the love for this guy, he does well but never has really broken through with a transformative year at any program. Now if he is some how able to beat 'Bama in the SEC title game he will get a huge raise from either Florida or move on to someone that will pay him.
 

nutsnbolts

Active member
Hypothetical - what would happen if Harbaugh and Herman swapped for 3 years?
Both teams get better?
Texas gets better?
tsun gets better?
They both stay about the same?
One or both get worse?
Both have had some coaching success to get them to the opportunities they now have.
Are they just at the wrong schools?
I really thought both would do well when originally hired to those schools.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Hearing some chatter that Dan Mullen is a hot name for Univ Texas & some NFL gigs. I don't get the love for this guy, he does well but never has really broken through with a transformative year at any program. Now if he is some how able to beat 'Bama in the SEC title game he will get a huge raise from either Florida or move on to someone that will pay him.
He’s done an admirable job in college, but I can’t see him going to the NFL. There’s very few College HCs that have the ability to make that transition. First and foremost, you’ve got to be a master Tactician. You can’t win as often simply by having a better roster. Secondly, you really need to have a resume that earns the respect of players. These aren’t college kids, they’re grown men, and if they smell weakness in you, you’ll never have their respect.
 

Omar

Well-known member
But, that would have likely ended Harbaugh's career at Michigan.
Not losing to OSU, especially in an embarrassing manner, is probably going to make it more palatable for the fan base to accept his extension. The only way Harbaugh won't be back next year is by his own doing. The rumors are they're offering him a lower base salary with higher incentives, but his ego might not let him accept a pay cut.
 

warren1st

Active member
UM had 43 players out. With the virus plus injuries in key poisitions such as QB, OL, RB.

Omar makes sense because he’s not filled with hate.
 

HTFF

Well-known member
Michigan could have dressed their entire roster and Ohio State would have won by 5 touchdowns. Michigan would lose to MAC schools. Cincinnati would easily beat them. That’s how far they have fallen
 

Omar

Well-known member
Ha. Did you see Michigan’s 3 ot effort v Rutgers..... worth a gamble👍
True, but Rutgers isn’t as awful with Schiano. They’re actually 3-5, and that record could actually be flipped if not fit the close losses to Michigan & Illinois.
 

y2h

Well-known member
It's the idea that the grass is always greener, and sometimes it just isn't. I don't know of any elite coaches waiting in the wings to coach at Michigan. At best, you have people who MIGHT be successful. As far these Michigan teams compare to historic Michigan teams, Harbaugh has done well. I'm not fan of the guy personally, but as an OSU fan, it's better to have Michigan as relevant.

OSU had success because Meyer rebuilt the prestige and then Day was waiting in the wings to take over the program right away. Michigan will go through another down cycle hiring a new coach, with a new system, while we wait for "his guys" to play.
John Cooper was successful as well. But not beating your rival or winning bowl games shapes perception.
 
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