Jim Harbaugh

cjb56

Well-known member
Time to head back to the NFL, Jimbo. Your schtick isn't working at Michigan.

I see a mutual parting of the ways at the end of the season. The only thing that might save him is a win over the Buckeyes, and that is unlikely. By the football program standards I'm sure Michigan desires, Harbaugh has failed. There will be several NFL jobs open in early January and I would expect Harbaugh to take one with Michigan's full blessing...as they kick him out the door.

Who's next in Ann Arbor? No, not Urban. I see the following possibilities (in no particular order):

Matt Campbell, Iowa State
Luke Fickell, Cincinnati
Pat Fitzgerald, Northwestern
PJ Fleck, Minnesota
David Shaw, Stanford

Bob Stoops will be mentioned. I would try Chris Peterson if I were Michigan.

Others who could be mentioned include Jim McElwain (Central Michigan), Mike Stoops (Kentucky), Greg Schiano (Rutgers)

If it were me I would go with Fickell. Not flashy, wins, great recruiter, knows the B1G and understands the rivalry.
 
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SMARTY22

Well-known member
Time to head back to the NFL, Jimbo. Your schtick isn't working at Michigan.

I see a mutual parting of the ways at the end of the season. The only thing that might save him is a win over the Buckeyes, and that is unlikely. By the football program standards I'm sure Michigan desires, Harbaugh has failed. There will be several NFL jobs open in early January, and I would expect Harbaugh to take one with Michigan's full blessing...as the kick him out the door.

Who's next in Ann Arbor? No, not Urban. I see the following possibilities (in no particular order):

Matt Campbell, Iowa State
Luke Fickell, Cincinnati
Pat Fitzgerald, Northwestern
PJ Fleck, Minnesota
David Shaw, Stanford

Bob Stoops will be mentioned. I would try Chris Peterson if I were Michigan.

Others who could be mentioned include Jim McElwain (Central Michigan), Mike Stoops (Kentucky), Greg Schiano (Rutgers)

If it were me I would go with Fickell. Not flashy, wins, great recruiter, knows the B1G and understands the rivalry.
Hope they give Harbaugh a Lifetime Contract Extension 😁. Honestly don’t think Fickell would even talk to those Clowns up North. Remember he grew up in Columbus and an OSU Alum. Be like sleeping with the enemy! If interested I think Pat Fitzgerald would be a good fit. Same with Campbell. Good call also on Peterson imo.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
Hope they give Harbaugh a Lifetime Contract Extension 😁. Honestly don’t think Fickell would even talk to those Clowns up North. Remember he grew up in Columbus and an OSU Alum. Be like sleeping with the enemy! If interested I think Pat Fitzgerald would be a good fit. Same with Campbell. Good call also on Peterson imo.
I know he's a Buckeye, but he's going to ask Urban and Tressel their thoughts and they will both tell him to go for it, I'm sure. It's still a destination job.
 

KingKong24

Well-known member
I don’t think Fickell would go up there either. I know he flirted with Michigan State a little last year, but that’s completely different than going to Ann Arbor.
 

KingKong24

Well-known member
Too bad UC couldn’t have gotten into the ACC when Louisville did. Maybe the Big 12 will add two more teams to get back to 12 eventually.
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
Michigan fans are a bit delusional thinking they aren't better under Harbaugh. Team performance and recruiting is certainly better than it ever was with Hoke or Rich Rod and Harbaugh has as many national championships at Michigan as Bo Schembechler. Bo had a .780 win percentage at Michigan while Harbaugh is .706. They've had multiple 10 win seasons under him, which they hadn't done since Lloyd Carr and Bo. Last time Michigan won every game was 1997 and before that 1948. Most will point to his lack of Big 10 titles, wins against OSU, and lack of bowl wins but Bo was 5-12 in bowl games.

The problem with Michigan is its perception of itself. Michigan fans think it's recent history that this was an elite program and it wasn't. They hired Harbaugh with the goal of being an elite program, but that's never really been who they are.

So when people say his "schtick isn't working" he's among one of the more successful coaches in Michigan program history.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
Michigan fans are a bit delusional thinking they aren't better under Harbaugh. Team performance and recruiting is certainly better than it ever was with Hoke or Rich Rod and Harbaugh has as many national championships at Michigan as Bo Schembechler. Bo had a .780 win percentage at Michigan while Harbaugh is .706. They've had multiple 10 win seasons under him, which they hadn't done since Lloyd Carr and Bo. Last time Michigan won every game was 1997 and before that 1948. Most will point to his lack of Big 10 titles, wins against OSU, and lack of bowl wins but Bo was 5-12 in bowl games.

The problem with Michigan is its perception of itself. Michigan fans think it's recent history that this was an elite program and it wasn't. They hired Harbaugh with the goal of being an elite program, but that's never really been who they are.

So when people say his "schtick isn't working" he's among one of the more successful coaches in Michigan program history.
The downward spiral came after Carr gave way to RichRod. It turned out to be a mistake and Hoke wasn’t good enough to undo it. Harbaugh has improved the program from the RichRod/Hoke years, but not enough. Michigan has the pedigree and resources to be an elite program, along with OSU. Harbaugh’s had plenty of time to get over the hump. Time for a change.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
They aren't paying him to be pretty good; his level of compensation merits being expected to be elite.

They had better hope that he leaves for the NFL. Otherwise, they're going to be suffering through one more year of Harbaugh mediocrity as I don't believe anyone up there has enough sack to fire him. IMO they'll probably choose to just run out the clock on his contract and part ways after his deal expires after next season.
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
My argument is that Michigan has never been elite. By elite, I mean the level that OSU, Alabama, and Clemson are currently at. If that was their expectation then they are kidding themselves. No doubt Michigan is overpaying Harbaugh. The only Michigan coach to have a winning record in bowl games in the past 50 years was Gary Moeller.

Like I said as far as Michigan coaches go, Harbaugh has been one of the more successful.
 

Omar

Well-known member
My argument is that Michigan has never been elite. By elite, I mean the level that OSU, Alabama, and Clemson are currently at. If that was their expectation then they are kidding themselves. No doubt Michigan is overpaying Harbaugh. The only Michigan coach to have a winning record in bowl games in the past 50 years was Gary Moeller.

Like I said as far as Michigan coaches go, Harbaugh has been one of the more successful.
I agree, but it looks like he’s given up. I think it’s best for both parties to separate at the end of this year.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Would either Shiano or Fleck survive the vetting process? I don't think they would.

Michigan needs a guy like Indiana's got. Someone came up through the state. Went out in the worlds, got experience. Not flashy been mentioned several times in the thread. Exactly what they need. A football coach, not a spokesman.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Would either Shiano or Fleck survive the vetting process? I don't think they would.

Michigan needs a guy like Indiana's got. Someone came up through the state. Went out in the worlds, got experience. Not flashy been mentioned several times in the thread. Exactly what they need. A football coach, not a spokesman.
Fleck is overrated, he’s still running a Tressell Offense. Schiano would be making a real scumbag move to bolt after just 1 yr back at Rutgers. I think their two best options are: Campbell & Hugh Freeze
 

Omar

Well-known member
The downward spiral came after Carr gave way to RichRod. It turned out to be a mistake and Hoke wasn’t good enough to undo it. Harbaugh has improved the program from the RichRod/Hoke years, but not enough. Michigan has the pedigree and resources to be an elite program, along with OSU. Harbaugh’s had plenty of time to get over the hump. Time for a change.
I don’t know if they have the same resources to be as CONSISTENTLY dominant as OSU. However, every now & again they should be in contention for a playoff spot.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
I don’t know if they have the same resources to be as CONSISTENTLY dominant as OSU. However, every now & again they should be in contention for a playoff spot.
Why not? They have great facilities and just as much money pouring into the football program. They have a powerful brand. The in-state talent thing is becoming moot as Ohio HS football has slipped quite a bit. I think the Buckeyes only had three Ohio HS players start last night...Munford and Myers on O and Harrison on D.
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
Why not? They have great facilities and just as much money pouring into the football program. They have a powerful brand. The in-state talent thing is becoming moot as Ohio HS football has slipped quite a bit. I think the Buckeyes only had three Ohio HS players start last night...Munford and Myers on O and Harrison on D.
The question is, are you going to find someone to take that money, brand, etc and turn it into on field performance. Jim Harbaugh has recruited very well at Michigan. The problem is, OSU has recruited out of their minds. The Jim Harbaugh/Don Brown system doesn't work when you are lining up 3 star recruits on 4 star recruits and 4 star recruits on 5 star recruits. When every starting OSU receiver would be the best athlete on your team, you can't play man coverage, like Don Brown does.

There's not a coach out there, outside of Dabo Swinney or Nick Saban that is going to come to Michigan and out recruit them, and even they may not do it.

I think Michigan is going to out-think themselves, ditch Harbaugh and regress even further. It's trading the known, which has been consistently good recruiting, consistent winning, and, outside of this season, generally dominating the teams you should dominate for the unknown. Michigan fans just assume that unknown will be better when the reality is, asking anyone to come in and consistently beat OSU and win the Big 10 East is a tall task and I seriously get Michigan would get better results than they're getting now with a PJ Fleck, Schiano, Campbell, etc.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Why not? They have great facilities and just as much money pouring into the football program. They have a powerful brand. The in-state talent thing is becoming moot as Ohio HS football has slipped quite a bit. I think the Buckeyes only had three Ohio HS players start last night...Munford and Myers on O and Harrison on D.
Michigan has never been a truly elite program, so I think you’re overestimating the brand appeal. Harbaugh has actually recruited pretty well, but OSU has been on another level. Honestly, up until this year I was cutting Harbaugh a lot of slack for not beating OSU bc OSU was on such a role. However, after this yr, he’s just not there. They lost to a Mich St team that got beat by f’n Rutgers the week before and lost 49-7 to Iowa this week.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
Why not? They have great facilities and just as much money pouring into the football program. They have a powerful brand. The in-state talent thing is becoming moot as Ohio HS football has slipped quite a bit. I think the Buckeyes only had three Ohio HS players start last night...Munford and Myers on O and Harrison on D.
Good point about the talent in Ohio. TTUN relied heavily on Ohio talent as did OSU, as the talent has dried up in Ohio, the Bucks are able to recruit at a high level across the nation, TTUN not so much.
 

Omar

Well-known member
And to reiterate, I’m not a person that advocates firing HCs at the drop of a hat. IMO, the idiot fans (at every school) are one of the worst things about college football. I get into with Penn St fans on Twitter bc they want to fire James Franklin. And I understand, Penn St being 0-3 with a blowout loss to MD isn’t acceptable, but it’s one bad season. Franklin is a top 10 coach, and less than a decade after the Sandusky scandal, had them playing in a Rose Bowl. I’ve also had it out with Notre Dame fans constantly trying to push Kelly out. Now look at where he’s gotten ND.

I don’t know when college football fans developed this attitude, but it’s pretty god dam moronic. You’ve got fans wanting to fire winning coaches with no idea on who to replace them. This isn’t the NFL, firing a coach has massive long term effects on a program. In Harbaugh’s case, it’s pretty clear, his heart isn’t in it and he’s hit a wall. A fresh start is good for everyone involved.
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
And to reiterate, I’m not a person that advocates firing HCs at the drop of a hat. IMO, the idiot fans (at every school) are one of the worst things about college football. I get into with Penn St fans on Twitter bc they want to fire James Franklin. And I understand, Penn St being 0-3 with a blowout loss to MD isn’t acceptable, but it’s one bad season. Franklin is a top 10 coach, and less than a decade after the Sandusky scandal, had them playing in a Rose Bowl. I’ve also had it out with Notre Dame fans constantly trying to push Kelly out. Now look at where he’s gotten ND.

I don’t know when college football fans developed this attitude, but it’s pretty god dam moronic. You’ve got fans wanting to fire winning coaches with no idea on who to replace them. This isn’t the NFL, firing a coach has massive long term effects on a program. In Harbaugh’s case, it’s pretty clear, his heart isn’t in it and he’s hit a wall. A fresh start is good for everyone involved.
It's the idea that the grass is always greener, and sometimes it just isn't. I don't know of any elite coaches waiting in the wings to coach at Michigan. At best, you have people who MIGHT be successful. As far these Michigan teams compare to historic Michigan teams, Harbaugh has done well. I'm not fan of the guy personally, but as an OSU fan, it's better to have Michigan as relevant.

OSU had success because Meyer rebuilt the prestige and then Day was waiting in the wings to take over the program right away. Michigan will go through another down cycle hiring a new coach, with a new system, while we wait for "his guys" to play.
 

Omar

Well-known member
It's the idea that the grass is always greener, and sometimes it just isn't. I don't know of any elite coaches waiting in the wings to coach at Michigan. At best, you have people who MIGHT be successful. As far these Michigan teams compare to historic Michigan teams, Harbaugh has done well. I'm not fan of the guy personally, but as an OSU fan, it's better to have Michigan as relevant.

OSU had success because Meyer rebuilt the prestige and then Day was waiting in the wings to take over the program right away. Michigan will go through another down cycle hiring a new coach, with a new system, while we wait for "his guys" to play.
The low level thinking just drives me nuts. They have no concept on the financial impact from a contract buyout, no idea the impact on recruiting, the time it takes to find a coach, the time it takes for that coach to put a staff together, how that coach meshes with the current roster. So many huge variables go into this decision and if things aren’t where they want in 3 years (usually a national championship), they’re ready to tear down and start the entire cycle over. If you’re so passionate about your team, think these things through.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Jim Harbaugh's tenure at Michigan feels a lot like Bo Pelini at Nebraska...the difference being he's top-5 in head coach salary and has a top-10 salary pool for his staff. Consistently 10-3 or 9-4, 3rd place in their division, lose the big rivalry game, bowl games, and to top-10 opponents. They've been paying a premium price for a disappointingly above-average product.

Like Nebraska, sooner or later a plurality of decision makers at Michigan will decide that with their resources and the amount they have invested in salaries that this is not good enough. It's always possible they end up with another dud and have a major rebuild like what Nebraska has had to do post-Pelini, but that's the risk that's to be accepted if they want to get over the hump.
 
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Auggie

Well-known member
UM smells like a Matt Campbell type job, my guess is he either ends up there or at Penn State sooner rather than later. Fickell may be around at UC for a couple more years, isn't his kid going to be on the roster starting next year? Also there are recruiting challenges at Michigan due to their academic standing so many guys that play a little looser with the rules may be turned off by the opportunity.
 

Omar

Well-known member
UM smells like a Matt Campbell type job, my guess is he either ends up there or at Penn State sooner rather than later. Fickell may be around at UC for a couple more years, isn't his kid going to be on the roster starting next year? Also there are recruiting challenges at Michigan due to their academic standing so many guys that play a little looser with the rules may be turned off by the opportunity.
Again, where is this push to fire Franklin coming from?
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
The only way Penn State is looking for a new head coach anytime soon is if Franklin willingly leaves for another job. Franklin's extension that was signed in the winter and the buyout they'd be on the hook for probably ensures that they couldn't seriously consider making a move for at least another 3-4 years.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I know that there are some here that have voiced before that they think he's overrated, but IMO Matt Campbell would kill it at a job like Michigan that has enormous resources but has struggled to get over the hump. What he's managed to do at Iowa State given their limitations and the state of the program when he took over is nothing short of amazing. He's a phenomenal recruiter and seems to get his guys to play their arses off for him.
 
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cjb56

Well-known member
Again, where is this push to fire Franklin coming from?
I don’t know of any push to fire Franklin. He’s the only coach in the B1G who is getting enough high four and five stars to stay close to the Buckeyes.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
Probably a combo of being unable to win the Big10, this poor season and going 0/10 on the state of Pennsylvania’s top 10 recruits.
This.

Give it a couple years and when 100K+ Beaver Stadium is half full it will be time for a change.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Probably a combo of being unable to win the Big10, this poor season and going 0/10 on the state of Pennsylvania’s top 10 recruits.
That’s not good, but it’s one class. Franklin has proven in other yrs, he can recruit at a high level. And as always, you have to consider who you can get as a replacement before firing a winning coach. The same names in your short list will be the same guys Texas, USC, and Michigan are looking at.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Probably a combo of being unable to win the Big10, this poor season and going 0/10 on the state of Pennsylvania’s top 10 recruits.
That’s not good, but it’s one class. Franklin has proven in other yrs, he can recruit at a high level. And as always, you have to consider who you can get as a replacement before firing a winning coach. The same names in your short list will be the same guys Texas, USC, and Michigan are looking at. And all 3 have more legitimate reasons to fire their HC than Penn St.
 
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