Jim Harbaugh

SMARTY22

Well-known member
I know he's a Buckeye, but he's going to ask Urban and Tressel their thoughts and they will both tell him to go for it, I'm sure. It's still a destination job.
It’s no longer a destination for Players and where Coaching careers end!
 

Termite2

Well-known member
Penn St recruiting classes last 5 years
2020 #15
2019 #12
2018 #6
2017 #15
2016 #20

Michigan recruiting classes
2020 #14
2019 #8
2018 #22
2017 #5
2016 #8

Ohio ST
2020 #5
2019 #14
2018 #2
2017 #2
2016 #4
 

Omar

Well-known member
Penn St recruiting classes last 5 years
2020 #15
2019 #12
2018 #6
2017 #15
2016 #20

Michigan recruiting classes
2020 #14
2019 #8
2018 #22
2017 #5
2016 #8

Ohio ST
2020 #5
2019 #14
2018 #2
2017 #2
2016 #4
Nobody in the B10 should be thinking of OSU as the Benchmark. If you’re Mich or Penn St, you want to be in the top 10 on average over 5 yrs. maybe some yrs you’re 8, others 12, but you always want to be around the top 10
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
In the past 20 years, OSU has had 16 10+ win seasons. Michigan has had 7 and Penn St has had 6. It's not a Harbaugh/Franklin problem.
 

Omar

Well-known member
In the past 20 years, OSU has had 16 10+ win seasons. Michigan has had 7 and Penn St has had 6. It's not a Harbaugh/Franklin problem.
Michigan is clearly better under Harbaugh than before his arrival. However, he’s getting paid Saban $ and can’t beat the school’s 2 biggest rivals. And it’s not just that historically (outside of the 90s) OSU has been better, it’s that the gap is widening and keeps getting bigger. You look at the last 2 years especially and it’s just embarrassing. And there’s no reason ( sans Covid) to think the result won’t be similar, possibly even worse.

Auburn is probably on the same plane as Michigan. They’re a solid program, but live in the shadow of their rival. However, even Auburn has figured out how to beat Bama in the Saban era. Ironic, bc it seems like every yr Gus Malzhan is on the hot seat.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
That’s not good, but it’s one class. Franklin has proven in other yrs, he can recruit at a high level. And as always, you have to consider who you can get as a replacement before firing a winning coach. The same names in your short list will be the same guys Texas, USC, and Michigan are looking at. And all 3 have more legitimate reasons to fire their HC than Penn St.
Herman may get 1 more year at Texas as there is a good chance they win out, key game is hosting Iowa St., and if that is the case they would be in the title game. Tough to fire a guy that made the conference title game.

It's early in their season but it might finally be time for USC to move on. The current roster is experienced so there is a good chance they will win some games this year but the future does not look good. Clay Helton may buy another year but will be jettisoned when they start playing all those low 3 * guys.

Harbaugh may leave on his own for a low pressure non-desirable NFL gig, (Lions?). If that is the case then they get their pick and I think it ends up being Matt Campbell.

Also keep an eye on South Carolina. They will probably move on from Muschamp and while name brand is not top notch this is a fan base that is delusional that will spend big $s on a name or look the other way for someone that has won in the past using dubious methods. They may throw a ton of $s at Fickell or it could be a landing spot for Hugh Freeze.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Herman may get 1 more year at Texas as there is a good chance they win out, key game is hosting Iowa St., and if that is the case they would be in the title game. Tough to fire a guy that made the conference title game.

It's early in their season but it might finally be time for USC to move on. The current roster is experienced so there is a good chance they will win some games this year but the future does not look good. Clay Helton may buy another year but will be jettisoned when they start playing all those low 3 * guys.

Harbaugh may leave on his own for a low pressure non-desirable NFL gig, (Lions?). If that is the case then they get their pick and I think it ends up being Matt Campbell.

Also keep an eye on South Carolina. They will probably move on from Muschamp and while name brand is not top notch this is a fan base that is delusional that will spend big $s on a name or look the other way for someone that has won in the past using dubious methods. They may throw a ton of $s at Fickell or it could be a landing spot for Hugh Freeze.
Muschamp is done. Freeze to Scar makes sense, not sure about Fickell.
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
Michigan is clearly better under Harbaugh than before his arrival. However, he’s getting paid Saban $ and can’t beat the school’s 2 biggest rivals. And it’s not just that historically (outside of the 90s) OSU has been better, it’s that the gap is widening and keeps getting bigger. You look at the last 2 years especially and it’s just embarrassing. And there’s no reason ( sans Covid) to think the result won’t be similar, possibly even worse.

Auburn is probably on the same plane as Michigan. They’re a solid program, but live in the shadow of their rival. However, even Auburn has figured out how to beat Bama in the Saban era. Ironic, bc it seems like every yr Gus Malzhan is on the hot seat.
Some of the more sensible Michigan fans I've talked to about it, acknowledge that Harbaugh brought the program back from the Rich Rod/Hoke years. Recruiting has been better, but Michigan can't market success like OSU has been able to. They can market NFL aspirations because they do get a lot drafted. They've gotten back to 9-10 win seasons, but this isn't the old Big 10 where that was enough. Most liken him to Michigan's version of Earl Bruce.

The biggest thing a lot of them have seen is a lack of enthusiasm from the coaches and players for Michigan football. Harbaugh doesn't seem to have it anymore and, if you look at the difference between how Michigan and OSU players approached the COVID season it's apparent. Michigan players were opting out almost immediately for the NFL. OSU players, even top NFL prospects like Justin Fields, were fighting to play football at OSU.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
Another thing about Harbaugh is that style counts in NCAA football and many don't like his style, especially in the media. Players these days like either the stoic this is really a business NFL style that Saban, Day, and Riley use or the folksy "dad" like style of Swiney, Orgeron, and Fleck. I guess Harbaugh fits under the folksy category but his style is borderline creepy with the shirtless gag and the sleeping on a couch bit.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
I think I'd put Fleck more into the folksy big brother category. Needs a bit more maturity to get to Dad level.

Ann Arbor is a unique college experience. It will always get recruits. Harbaugh should have been able to do better with those he brought in. He's not just losing. He's getting blown out.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
I think I'd put Fleck more into the folksy big brother category. Needs a bit more maturity to get to Dad level.

Ann Arbor is a unique college experience. It will always get recruits. Harbaugh should have been able to do better with those he brought in. He's not just losing. He's getting blown out.
Yeah, I don’t see Fleck being overly attractive to Michigan, but I definitely can see the job being attractive to Fleck.

Fickell or Campbell seem more suited to the job, personality-wise.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
Herman may get 1 more year at Texas as there is a good chance they win out, key game is hosting Iowa St., and if that is the case they would be in the title game. Tough to fire a guy that made the conference title game.

It's early in their season but it might finally be time for USC to move on. The current roster is experienced so there is a good chance they will win some games this year but the future does not look good. Clay Helton may buy another year but will be jettisoned when they start playing all those low 3 * guys.

Harbaugh may leave on his own for a low pressure non-desirable NFL gig, (Lions?). If that is the case then they get their pick and I think it ends up being Matt Campbell.

Also keep an eye on South Carolina. They will probably move on from Muschamp and while name brand is not top notch this is a fan base that is delusional that will spend big $s on a name or look the other way for someone that has won in the past using dubious methods. They may throw a ton of $s at Fickell or it could be a landing spot for Hugh Freeze.
My gosh, Freeze and South Carolina seem to go together like peanut butter and jelly. Both willing to sell their souls for what each can do for the other. I can soooooo see it happening.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
My gosh, Freeze and South Carolina seem to go together like peanut butter and jelly. Both willing to sell their souls for what each can do for the other. I can soooooo see it happening.
But then again an agent friend pointed out to me that Liberty may be home to Freeze for some time. They plan on using football like a PR campaign for the school, they believe every $ put into football will come back in both on campus students and most importantly on line students. In the craziest thing I have ever seen this guy told me to look up what Liberty's endowment is. Anyone care to guess? It is $1.6 billion and they are aggressive in their MGMT of this pile of cash. UC has a smaller endowment, so does Univ Kentucky, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Baylor, Univ Tenn, Univ Maryland, etc... Get the picture? This is an insane amount for a school that has only been around since 1971. And unlike the old school elites they are going to use a lot of this money on football. He thinks once Dabo leaves Clemson this will be the place that all the better religious players will go to and it is only a matter of time until they are using a ND type model competing for national titles.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
That
But then again an agent friend pointed out to me that Liberty may be home to Freeze for some time. They plan on using football like a PR campaign for the school, they believe every $ put into football will come back in both on campus students and most importantly on line students. In the craziest thing I have ever seen this guy told me to look up what Liberty's endowment is. Anyone care to guess? It is $1.6 billion and they are aggressive in their MGMT of this pile of cash. UC has a smaller endowment, so does Univ Kentucky, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Baylor, Univ Tenn, Univ Maryland, etc... Get the picture? This is an insane amount for a school that has only been around since 1971. And unlike the old school elites they are going to use a lot of this money on football. He thinks once Dabo leaves Clemson this will be the place that all the better religious players will go to and it is only a matter of time until they are using a ND type model competing for national titles.
That does not sound crazy at all. It's a tried and true path to follow. Notre Dame and BYU are both richly supplied with mucho dinero the same way. You must keep in mind the folks contributing the cash to Liberty are true believers and they will happily tithe whatever it takes to make Liberty world class. Catholics used to support their institutions with similar fervor back in the day.
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
I think the Harbaugh days are over after this season, mostly because the Michigan fan base will demand it. I'm not sure they're going to find a savior with the next hire though. There's no coach out there routinely beating OSU and Wisconsin outside Dabo or Nick Saban.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Brutal beatdown tonight. Going back to the loss at Ohio State to end the regular season in 2018, Harbaugh is 10-9 in his last 19 games.
 

Chop Stix

Well-known member
Would love Fickell to be the next head coach but I think the OSU connections are too strong for him to receive full backing by the alumni/fanbase.

Campbell is a pretty safe hire, but he doesn't get me excited. Can't see us overtaking OSU with him at the helm.

Heupel at UCF could bring a dynamic offense that's been missing for some time.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
Would love Fickell to be the next head coach but I think the OSU connections are too strong for him to receive full backing by the alumni/fanbase.

Campbell is a pretty safe hire, but he doesn't get me excited. Can't see us overtaking OSU with him at the helm.

Heupel at UCF could bring a dynamic offense that's been missing for some time.
Michigan should not fall for fool’s gold, like Heupel. That just has RichRod written all over it. Not the same style, but a wrong fit.

Fickell checks all the boxes. The OSU ties are very strong, but he has always been a top level recruiter, knows the B1G, understands the rivalry and is the strong...but non-flashy...leader that would do well in Ann Arbor. If he’s offered the job and seeks advice from Urban, Tressel and Cooper, they’ll all tell him to take the job. In spite of the opinions of some, it’s still a destination job with the expectations, resources, brand and ability to succeed at the highest level.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
If they opt to move on from Harbaugh this year, they'd be nuts if they have anyone other than Fickell and Campbell at the top of their list.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Would love Fickell to be the next head coach but I think the OSU connections are too strong for him to receive full backing by the alumni/fanbase.

Campbell is a pretty safe hire, but he doesn't get me excited. Can't see us overtaking OSU with him at the helm.

Heupel at UCF could bring a dynamic offense that's been missing for some time.
Is toppling OSU really the biggest issue right now? It’s going to take at least 3 years before they can even compete with OSU. Worry about getting back to 8-9 wins and actually beating Mich St. When that starts happening, then you can turn focus to OSU
 

Omar

Well-known member
I think the Harbaugh days are over after this season, mostly because the Michigan fan base will demand it. I'm not sure they're going to find a savior with the next hire though. There's no coach out there routinely beating OSU and Wisconsin outside Dabo or Nick Saban.
I think settling for just beating OSU once in a while would be enough for Michigan.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
Is toppling OSU really the biggest issue right now? It’s going to take at least 3 years before they can even compete with OSU. Worry about getting back to 8-9 wins and actually beating Mich St. When that starts happening, then you can turn focus to OSU
Yes. Toppling OSU should always be the primary goal at Michigan. Tressel didn’t inherit a great situation from Cooper, and Michigan owned OSU at that point, but Tressel knew his prime directive was to get the program to where it could beat Michigan. Setting sights lower is for the lesser lights in the B1G.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Yes. Toppling OSU should always be the primary goal at Michigan. Tressel didn’t inherit a great situation from Cooper, and Michigan owned OSU at that point, but Tressel knew his prime directive was to get the program to where it could beat Michigan. Setting sights lower is for the lesser lights in the B1G.
You have to crawl before you can walk. You should hire a coach who you believe can beat OSU, but recognize it’s going to take time.
And when Tressell got to OSU, Michigan wasn’t nearly as strong as current OSU, not even close.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Right now they need someone who will inject energy and pride into that program. Both are severely lacking right now, and it starts with the leadership of Harbaugh. The talent on their roster probably isn't that bad, but their guys act like they have no will or desire to fight.
 
.
Top