IT IS THE CORONAVIRUS OF HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE BASEBALL COACHES

BASESWIMPARENT

Active member
Yes, I am talking about bunting. Watched a ton of streamed highlights of college baseball games this past weekend and now I know why nary a bunting opportunity goes by in High School baseball without one being laid down. D1 COLLEGE COACHES ARE INFECTED TOO. THERE WAS A TON OF IT THIS PAST WEEKEND. All kind of bunts were executed. Bunts with 2 strikes, bunts with 2 outs, sacrifice bunts, suicide bunts, squeezes, safety squeezes, bunts for hits. It was enough to make this new age, analytical baseball fan run out of his man cave screaming in horror. I know it was early in the season and nobody but nobody was ready for or could field a bunt, but lets hope our local high school baseball coaches were not watching these games and were instead writing up their practice plans for the season. Otherwise, we are in for an exciting every other at bat, bunt filled season. OH THE HORROR! Now back to watching MONEY BALL and calculating some new defensive metrics.
 
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fortfan

Active member
Practice starts Monday. #1 on the agenda - practice bunting!! (Kidding - well kidding about the #1 part.)

2 cages and a bunting station. Minimum 20 bunts. 10 down 3rd baseline, 10 down 1st baseline. Kids love it. (Kidding about that too, but we make it a competition so they do have SOME fun) Gotta keep up with the Joneses.

Can't have a "bunt scrimmage" until we go outside.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Practice starts Monday. #1 on the agenda - practice bunting!! (Kidding - well kidding about the #1 part.)

2 cages and a bunting station. Minimum 20 bunts. 10 down 3rd baseline, 10 down 1st baseline. Kids love it. (Kidding about that too, but we make it a competition so they do have SOME fun) Gotta keep up with the Joneses.

Can't have a "bunt scrimmage" until we go outside.
Bunting is all about effort and the attitude of the player.

Some believe they are 'too good' to bunt and it shows.

Many years we had every spot in the lineup have at least one SAC.
 

dhsdog06

Active member
I despise bunting at the major league level. Outs are just too precious to be giving away like that, in all but of a few rare circumstances.

However, at the high school level where fielders aren't as good, home runs aren't nearly as plentiful, and speed and athleticism are a bigger part of the game: bunt until they prove they can consistently field it. Drop it down, make that 3B or P make a play, use your speed. Whatever it takes to get runners on and runs on the board.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Active member
I get it early in the season for what you just said. But later in the season it just gets obnoxious. And then in the summer club season when you are coached by a high school coach and you play in showcases etc, it is just plain silly.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I despise bunting at the major league level. Outs are just too precious to be giving away like that, in all but of a few rare circumstances.

However, at the high school level where fielders aren't as good, home runs aren't nearly as plentiful, and speed and athleticism are a bigger part of the game: bunt until they prove they can consistently field it. Drop it down, make that 3B or P make a play, use your speed. Whatever it takes to get runners on and runs on the board.
I concur.
At the MLB level every single player has the ability to go yard at any given time. HS and below............bunting to get guys over is a very effective way of winning. Our program regained its prominence when it went back to playing small bacll a few years ago.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Active member
I will repeat what I overheard an SEC scout say at a major show case tournament after our coach suicided our number 5 batter to bring in our number 4 batter. And I quote, "Nobody came here to see you bunt." There is a time and a place but our high school coaches in SWO do it way, way too much.
 

GCPRO

Active member
My son is a college coach and so far in this season alone I have seen their team have the tying run on second and no outs in the 8th/9th inning of a game, down a run, three different times. Each time they didn't try to sac the guy to third and they lost all three by a run. No way of knowing if they score that run and go on to win or lose the game but I like my chances with a runner at third and one out. A lot more pressure on the defense with a runner on third as opposed to second. No brainer in my mind. I will admit that my background may have been overusing the bunt but my gosh we won a heck of a lot of close ballgames.
As for the SEC scout comment, we suicided our 3 hitter(state POY, all time home run leader at the univ. he attended) to win a regional championship. For each their own.
 
Freezing cold take here. I wont consistently get behind bunting with two strikes or two outs or some of the other situations listed but being completely against a SAC bunt in HS or College baseball? Yikes. In showcases and really even summer ball, sure, go ahead and swing away. But regular season SAC situations, especially late in games, do a job and move the runner. Speed on third and lesser bat at the plate, why not squeeze or safety squeeze if you really need a run? I assume most of you against it in were pitchers that got exposed because you couldn't get off the mound or a hitter who thought "I am too good to bunt". Lay it down and move a runner. Team game. Next.
 
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thavoice

Well-known member
I will repeat what I overheard an SEC scout say at a major show case tournament after our coach suicided our number 5 batter to bring in our number 4 batter. And I quote, "Nobody came here to see you bunt." There is a time and a place but our high school coaches in SWO do it way, way too much.
If you say so.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Freezing cold take here. I wont consistently get behind bunting with two strikes or two outs or some of the other situations listed but being completely against a SAC bunt in HS or College baseball? Yikes. In showcases and really even summer ball, sure, go ahead and swing away. But regular season SAC situations, especially late in games, do a job and move the runner. Speed on third and lesser bat at the plate, why not squeeze or safety squeeze if you really need a run? I assume most of you against it in were pitchers that got exposed because you couldn't get off the mound or a hitter who thought "I am too good to bunt". Lay it down and move a runner. Team game. Next.
We have bunted with 2 strikes on a number of occasions, even a squeeze, and it generally was because we felt it was the absolute best probability of getting the job done, or on occasion, to prove a point to a player who was putting so little effort in the attempt that we were not going to let him off the hook. The percentage of times it was successful was extremely, extremely high, with 2 strikes as the effort skyrockets from the player.
 

CedarBuck92

Active member
I don't mind the bunt. But if you are going to ask a kid to sac bunt on a large portion of his AB you can't turn around and be mad at him for lack of hits. Same as you can't always put a pitcher in with bases loaded and no outs and get mad if he occasionally lets a run score.

We should develop players to be better hitters to be well rounded but part of that is the ability to bunt when the situation calls for it.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Active member
I don't mind the bunt. But if you are going to ask a kid to sac bunt on a large portion of his AB you can't turn around and be mad at him for lack of hits. Same as you can't always put a pitcher in with bases loaded and no outs and get mad if he occasionally lets a run score.

We should develop players to be better hitters to be well rounded but part of that is the ability to bunt when the situation calls for it.
This is a reasonable perspective. I am not talking about bunting for a hit. That is a good tool for a certain kind of player. My problem is that almost every time we get a guy on first with less than two outs, down goes the bunt and we move them to second or we move them to third. I get making the other team play the bunt too. But jeez, sacrificing an out for a potential run does not develop the players at all. By all means, learn to bunt. Do it well. It is a necessary tool in the tool box for a good ball player. But if I can predict when a bunt is going to be put down every time from March to May, I don't think we are serving our players very well. And again, quit teaching players to hit down on the ball. It is the same thing as bunting all the time.
 

AnswerZero

New member
At the end of the day, not all high school programs have the big time bats in their lineups. High School teams have to adapt to their lineup, and if you have small quick quys, why not bunt?

Hudson is a perfect example of this in Northeast Ohio. Coach Dice has lived by bunting for as long as I can remember. Past few seasons, their motto has literally been #RollBunts..

In terms of summer ball, you would hope at the "elite" level which is where these SEC scouts are at that you speak of... that your team has a lineup of absolute ball players 1-9 and can win games without playing small ball. Summer ball is different, always has been. Curious what kind of SEC Scout talks to or sits by parents at those events.

Also look at twitter, or talk to coaches. Bunting doesn't just vanish at the college level. If you think it does, you're oblivious. Most big time colleges have a small field used for BUNTING practice. Other colleges don't even let you take BP until you can lay down your bunts.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Especially since BBCOR came into play, bunting has increased in my opinion.

"back when I played" I think almost everyone in the lineup, including the small dude, went yard one season with the drop 5 and 2 5/8 barrels.

College baseball needed the BBCOR with how the ball was jumping, but I feel HS didnt. I know at the time there were articles how many teams BA went down significantly.

but anways//


next time I start coaching again I will work on getting the kids to be able to hit the ball so we dont have to bunt anymore.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Active member
I have to admit that I am surprised at the amount of bunting that I see in college ball this year. But it is early, these teams are stacking wins to qualify for the playoffs so I get it. But I will be watching for the amount of bunting later in season. As far as high school s in SWO go, except for a few programs that are always in the mix down here, there is very little hitting (or pitching for that matter) in the off season. Our coach is trying to mitigate this by truncating the tryout period (all rosters were set yesterday) and coach the hell out of the kids for next 4 weeks before the season starts. I am interested to see how this goes.
 
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fortfan

Active member
My all-time worst bunt experience:

Playing Celina at home. We have runners on 1st and 2nd with nobody out. LH cleanup hitter at bat. Coach calls for a bunt. He bunts a little pop-up towards the mound. Pitcher makes a diving catch, throws to 2nd then to 1st for a triple play. We lose the game by 1 run.

My all time best bunt experience:

Locked in a pitchers battle with Ottawa Glandorf in District Tournament. Lead-off hitter gets a base hit. 3 bunts later, he scored. (SAC, Error, Hit). We win 1-0.

Best bunt with worst outcome:

At Ben Logan, tie game. Runner on 2nd. They know we are going to bunt. They move 2nd baseman to within 10 feet of first and 1B is charging. Our guy pushes a bunt hard to where the 2nd baseman usually would be playing and the ball rolls into right field. Runner never slows down at 3rd and chugs home. Throw beats him, but is 8-10 feet up the line. Catcher catches it and lunges at the runner. Sensing a collision our runner turns his shoulder toward the catcher. The collision happens and he drops the ball. Home plate umpire calls safe. Base umpire comes running in, calls the runner out and throws him out of the game for colliding with catcher. We argue that the catcher initiated the contact to no avail. We lose player for next 2 games, first of which is Sectional.
 

thePITman

Well-known member
I have to admit that I am surprised at the amount of bunting that I see in college ball this year. But it is early, these teams are stacking wins to qualify for the playoffs so I get it. But I will be watching for the amount of bunting later in season.
So what you're saying is bunting helps you win games. Got it.
 

GCPRO

Active member
There's no question that being able to bunt in any situation helps you win baseball games. I watched Vandy play last week and they bunted three times in the first five innings. They can recruit the top of the top hitters in the country.
 

thePITman

Well-known member
There's no question that being able to bunt in any situation helps you win baseball games. I watched Vandy play last week and they bunted three times in the first five innings. They can recruit the top of the top hitters in the country.
Totally agree. I was just pointing out that the person who is so adamant against bunting admits that it helps win games. (y)
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Active member
Never said it didn't win games. In the right situation it does win games. But we do it way to much because it is a crutch for not teaching hitting properly. The hitting instruction can't be done during the season. Has to happen before the season, maybe before tryouts. And yes we still need a shot clock. Can't complain against the evils of AAU if there isn't a wholesome alternative. But that is for a different board. Hit leagues or small group instruction is a good way to teach hitting. It is not a surprise that three of the most consistent baseball programs in SWO have hitting groups and/or hitting leagues.
 

Boro20

Active member
Never said it didn't win games. In the right situation it does win games. But we do it way to much because it is a crutch for not teaching hitting properly. The hitting instruction can't be done during the season. Has to happen before the season, maybe before tryouts. And yes we still need a shot clock. Can't complain against the evils of AAU if there isn't a wholesome alternative. But that is for a different board. Hit leagues or small group instruction is a good way to teach hitting. It is not a surprise that three of the most consistent baseball programs in SWO have hitting groups and/or hitting leagues.
The top baseball programs in SWO are also known for using the bunt often and effectively. It’s not an either/or thing. Bunts and bunt defense often determines the outcome of league, district and regional games when shut down pitchers are on the mound.
 
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