Invitational Race Formats?

first

New member
Does anyone know what race format will the meets, that are currently still scheduled, be following this fall? Ex. wave start, regular, etc?
 

first

New member
Yes, aware of both of those items. Just wondering if any meet directors have already made tentative decisions for their meets.
 

bgtri11

Member
Understand----would be interested as well to see what others are planning on doing. We host the All-Catholic Invite at the end of September but are waiting until after the meetings this week to start planning and figuring everything out.
 

cvctrackfan

Active member
The only way to run these meets safely and fairly is by using an interval start. First off seeding the top 20 runners randomly and starting them around every 30 seconds. Then seeding the next 20 to 30 runners and so on. That is the way Nordic skiing races are done and it works. The reason you randomly seed the groups is so that the top seeded runner doesn’t always have the pressure of going first. Happy
 

ENA2

Member
I think most meet managers will post (or send) information a week or two prior to the event that will cover procedure for the meet. A lot may have to do with the size of the meet and the facilities available. Things to consider is the course, number of teams, potential spectators, cost/expenses, timing/scoring, emergency plan, etc. In other words.... the same things that always need to be considered. The difference is now things will need to be planned around covid-19 regulations. If the plan is not satisfactory with invited teams, schools or individuals then they should no attend
 

ENA2

Member
Some meets which we attend may be able to conduct the actual race exactly like they always have.... , but most will have to Limit the field size, Restrict spectators (require masks. Band some Viewing areas, Etc.), regulate team camps, concessions, start area and other places where crowds may gather. Also, they will have to consider: providing fluids, medical availability, Restrooms, keeping officials/helpers safe, and about a dozen other considerations.
 

ENA2

Member
I think a lot more responsibility will be on attending teams and athletes and spectators too and the can/should Eagerly take on that responsibility. Things like: 1) bring bottled water for your team along with personal individual water bottles. 2.) bring and wear a mask And social distance, where requested to do so, 3.) know the starting and finishing procedures so there is limited gathering in these areas. 4.) use the restroom prior to leaving for the meet. 5.)don’t arrive too soon or stay too long / know the time schedule.
 

BeaverNation

New member
The only way to run these meets safely and fairly is by using an interval start. First off seeding the top 20 runners randomly and starting them around every 30 seconds. Then seeding the next 20 to 30 runners and so on. That is the way Nordic skiing races are done and it works. The reason you randomly seed the groups is so that the top seeded runner doesn’t always have the pressure of going first. Happy
Are you proposing this start method for every race, or just the venues that dont have an adequate Start line?
 
And when a runner tests positive, no matter where they obtained it, will the sport be shut down? So much uncertainty everywhere you look. You coaches are certainly earning your meney this year.
 
Seeding individual runners is ridiculous. I know we need safety measures in place but PLEASE, let's not go overboard here. Let the kids run.
 

CC Track Fan

Active member
Fremont for their invite on 8/29 is limiting teams to bringing 14 runners (7 V & 7JV) and each team will get 17 car passes for parking to limit the number fans. Normally they run one race with all the runners each team has on their roster. That sounds like a reasonable plan.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
The only way to run these meets safely and fairly is by using an interval start. First off seeding the top 20 runners randomly and starting them around every 30 seconds. Then seeding the next 20 to 30 runners and so on. That is the way Nordic skiing races are done and it works. The reason you randomly seed the groups is so that the top seeded runner doesn’t always have the pressure of going first. Happy
So, you have a chip reader at the start line that gets activated when a kid starts and one that reads when they finish. Could randomly start kids then and you wouldn't know what the heck was going on until the results were done. Anyway you do something like that. Your way or mine, no one would know what the heck was going on during the race. Sort of would make it a completely different sport at that point.
 

Running Man 101

Active member
So, you have a chip reader at the start line that gets activated when a kid starts and one that reads when they finish. Could randomly start kids then and you wouldn't know what the heck was going on until the results were done. Anyway you do something like that. Your way or mine, no one would know what the heck was going on during the race. Sort of would make it a completely different sport at that point.
That is not allowed. Make up whatever you want, but it will not be sanctioned and is not a real meet.
 

cvctrackfan

Active member
How can you make the regional and state meet any smaller and still be fair. I will agree that running meets in intervals will make the sport different. And smaller meets should be run like the old days. As large a starting line as possible, a stopwatch or hand timers and a lot of pop sickle sticks.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
How can you make the regional and state meet any smaller and still be fair. I will agree that running meets in intervals will make the sport different. And smaller meets should be run like the old days. As large a starting line as possible, a stopwatch or hand timers and a lot of pop sickle sticks.
Half the teams. That would make those meets smaller. Top 2 teams from each Regional would still be fair.

I would go highest placing team per Division in the League goes to the District meet. Then 2nd, 3rd, and so on until half the teams are in. Then, Half the teams qualify through to the Regional. Then Half to State. That's my starting point. I'll take a few minutes and look at what half the teams at the district meets would look like.
 

Running Man 101

Active member
That's sort of what I was trying to say. I don't think this needs overthought. Keep it simple. Just run smaller meets. More smaller meets.
More smaller meets is exactly it. We are going to add a straight JV meet to alleviate the load on the weekend meets. Everybody everywhere is going to have to step up for our kids. Who knows, maybe we'll create a better system for the kids.
 

cvctrackfan

Active member
I would have no problem only taking the top two teams out of the region. At the state to limit the field we could return to having separate team and individual races. Maybe even run the individual race on Friday.
 

ENA2

Member
If they go back to separate indIvidual and team races and balance the regionals again the the only tourney races that would be a problem is districts...as far as numbers in a race goes. That would be 20 teams (140 runners) and maybe 50 in the individual races. Using Friday for one division or individual races would work. Districts could also cut numbers by using “A” and “B” races and/or using fridays for one division.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
Here is my alternate plan. League determines Sectionals. Each Sectional is 10 teams or less. Sectionals feed the Districts 10 teams or less. Proportional representation from each District to the state. 10-12 teams at the state meet. Each District is assured representation. Least amount of contact area to area. Smaller races. Don't have to figure what teams feed each Regional.
 

Supertramp

Member
1.) Great to hear last night during the OATCCC forum on hosting a meet that they were not in favor of CC ski style seeded starts, and proposed "Break-in" starts (basically each team runs in their own lane for the first 100m-200m) instead. Much more simple and realistic.

2.) You do not even have to reduce the District/Regional and State meet sizes by half, just return them to what they were before we expanded the State meet to 20 teams. With 16 teams, the State meet was ~140s, and at least in the SW Region, Regionals was ~120s, and Districts were usually under 100.

I thought the forum was excellent and we walked away with a lot of helpful information. But the worst idea by far in the OATCCC forum was splitting the state meet into two heats. After the first 2-3 teams, it's all subject to opinion who deserves to be in which heat. Or worse, random heats and combine results, totally unfair. One of those races is going to be faster than the other.

It's probably unrealistic at this point, but a 4th Divisions for CC (like we already should have!) would really solve a lot of problems here.
 
With the season starting Monday, who is pushing forward with going to invitationals of up to 150 runners and who will stick to duals, tris or quads??
 

Run800

New member
It appears Painesville Riverside will be hosting a good size invite on Saturday. Over 700 athletes across 6 races
 
Is the Riverside coach the same guy who times races in Lake County with the Mentor coach? If so, i would think they have good protocals already in place having successfully timed races since July.
 

NECoach

New member
700 athletes to start the season? Wow. At this point, I know a lot of teams, ours included, are being very cautious. I don't think I would bring our team there. It certainly makes me wonder about their night race, that we are registered for. If they are bringing numbers like that, I doubt we'll attend.
 

NECoach

New member
100 percent. I am not, in any way, vilifying Painesville Riverside. I'm just making an observation. It seems like a large race to start the season when we haven't really worked within the parameters of the protocols. Not saying it can't be done, or done well. Just being cautious.
 
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