How does the MAC do it?

IndianaBanana

Well-known member
Per Wikipedia, Coldwater has 3 wrestling state titles. Everyone else in the MAC, zero.
Only 4 out of the 10 MAC schools have wrestling. Coldwater, Versailles, Delphos St Johns and Parkway.
Parkway just started wrestling about 5ish years ago, and it really seems to be catching.
 

Zezzo!

Well-known member
They live in a bubble, they never leave the bubble, everything they need is in the bubble. Same values, same morals, same entertainment, and yes sometimes the same women or husbands, sometimes they share both and everyone knows it as everyone knows what everyone is doing, they're all cousins or brothers from generation to generation and the coaches stay there for at least 30 years, he's coached dad, brother and I. And they play and travel to other bubbles just like theirs. This is a fact!
 

justalurker

Active member
Only 4 out of the 10 MAC schools have wrestling. Coldwater, Versailles, Delphos St Johns and Parkway.
Parkway just started wrestling about 5ish years ago, and it really seems to be catching.
Thats surprising to me. Seems like tough, hard nosed communities like those in the MAC would be good at and have more interest in wrestling as well.
 

algernonsidney

Active member
I'm not sure where you are getting the "weakest teams in that conference will usually beat or at least compete with the best teams in Ohio." Perhaps trying to stir up trouble? As a MSML fan, I'll tell you my team will hold it's own at the very least, against the best teams in the state, D5 through D7. Can the same be said for the bottom tier of the MAC? Not at all.
There was a thread on here that asked to rate all seven state championships. Back in 2017, I rated Marion Local as #4. I only put you behind D1-D3. I even had you ahead of Steubenville. I think you would beat them in most years. I'd like to see Marion Local take on some of the bigger boys--someone like Bishop Hartley or Clinton-Massie. And maybe you could even take on some of the really big ones.
 

algernonsidney

Active member
It certainly helps if you don't have your best athletes spread over two sports. Football without soccer helps. Basketball without wrestling helps.
 

dnis30

Well-known member
There was a thread on here that asked to rate all seven state championships. Back in 2017, I rated Marion Local as #4. I only put you behind D1-D3. I even had you ahead of Steubenville. I think you would beat them in most years. I'd like to see Marion Local take on some of the bigger boys--someone like Bishop Hartley or Clinton-Massie. And maybe you could even take on some of the really big ones.
They do take on some big boys.

2019: Bishop Watterson 31, Marion Local 7
2017: Marion Local 35, Chaminade Julienne 7
2016: Marion Local 34, Chaminade Julienne 14
2013: Marion Local 29, West Jefferson 0
2012: Marion Local 44, West Jefferson 37
 
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Down The Road

Active member
Only 4 out of the 10 MAC schools have wrestling. Coldwater, Versailles, Delphos St Johns and Parkway.
Parkway just started wrestling about 5ish years ago, and it really seems to be catching.
Careful that one can cut both ways! Builds great skills and fight. But not really a team sport and you gotta eat!
 

Maple_City_Fan

Well-known member
Talked to a coaching friend of mine a few years ago that has lost to them alot in the playoffs
1. Genetics - they have the Jimmies and Joes
2. Coaching - They rarely get outcoached, which means you have to be as good or better at #1, which rarely happens, except at places like Kirtland.
3. Community - great support, no soccer, lots of two parent homes that promote the a winning culture.
That explains it.....


No Soccer.

Time for me to jump on the bandwagon.
 

IndianaBanana

Well-known member
Thats surprising to me. Seems like tough, hard nosed communities like those in the MAC would be good at and have more interest in wrestling as well.
Basketball is king of winter sports.
Bowling just got added as a new MAC sport last year. And I'd guess swimming and diving would be next in line for the next sport with Fort Recovery, Coldwater, Versailles, Minster, New Bremen, Marion Local and St. Henry all fielding teams.
 

bigkat

Well-known member
Then how do they win volleyball, baseball, cross country, etc titles? Pee wee football has little to do with thier success. Genetics, coaching, and community define them. Some schools can match them in 1 or even two areas, but rarely all three. Kirtland is one of those places and you see them holding thier own vs. the MAC.

And I have the utmost respect for what the MAC has done. Ive wathced them beat many teams from the OHC in the playoffs over the years.
wondering how has Kirtland done in other sports?
 

VTJGball

Active member
Only 4 out of the 10 MAC schools have wrestling. Coldwater, Versailles, Delphos St Johns and Parkway.
Parkway just started wrestling about 5ish years ago, and it really seems to be catching.
Versailles has had a State Champion wrestler back in 87-89. Wrestling produces better football players, but it does take away a few boys from time to time that specialize and dont want to get hurt in FB. I dont think it takes away boys from Basketball. College FB coaches love wrestlers.
 

Kirtland4580

Active member
wondering how has Kirtland done in other sports?
Two years ago, Kirtland sent its football, girls soccer, and boys soccer teams all to the Final Four in the same week. I’m not sure how many schools can lay claim to that.

Kirtland has the occasional wrestler go to states, but nobody has come to close to being a state champion in recent years. For spring sports, they always have a strong girls track team. The baseball team made it to regionals twice in recent years, but nothing more than that.

If I’m being honest, the girls teams are probably better than the boys teams at Kirtland overall, IMO. But the football team gets most of the recognition.

In terms of how the MAC does it, I look to the proverb, “It takes a village.” Because MAC communities are so tight-knit and connected to each other, genetics plays a role, but not THE role that makes annual success happen. Rather, it’s community buy-in, coaching, and dedication from the athletes in each village/community.

The culture that football coaches such as Chip Otten, Tim Goodwin, Geron Stokes, etc. have created in the MAC communities are second to none. The student-athletes have year-long consistent dedication towards bettering themselves. As a result, we see MAC teams churning out championships year after year after year.

While Kirtland had three final four teams in one fall sports season, I’m even more impressed at 2017 Marion Local who beat Kirtland in football, then turned around to beat Cornerstone Christian Academy (just 10 minutes or so from Kirtland) in basketball, both for state titles. Thank you to the MAC communities for setting the example of how small-school sports and communities should & ought to be.
 

Burreaux

Member
My main question for those in MAC country what is the median income for the area? Is there much poverty within the area? Is farming the main source of income? I ask these questions as someone from Southern Ohio. Where each of the questions I asked a main reason of why the populous in this area is declining.
With the only major football success up to this point is Wheelersburg in ‘17 winning state. Ironton last year losing in the state title
 

Maple_City_Fan

Well-known member
Two years ago, Kirtland sent its football, girls soccer, and boys soccer teams all to the Final Four in the same week. I’m not sure how many schools can lay claim to that.

Kirtland has the occasional wrestler go to states, but nobody has come to close to being a state champion in recent years. For spring sports, they always have a strong girls track team. The baseball team made it to regionals twice in recent years, but nothing more than that.

If I’m being honest, the girls teams are probably better than the boys teams at Kirtland overall, IMO. But the football team gets most of the recognition.

In terms of how the MAC does it, I look to the proverb, “It takes a village.” Because MAC communities are so tight-knit and connected to each other, genetics plays a role, but not THE role that makes annual success happen. Rather, it’s community buy-in, coaching, and dedication from the athletes in each village/community.

The culture that football coaches such as Chip Otten, Tim Goodwin, Geron Stokes, etc. have created in the MAC communities are second to none. The student-athletes have year-long consistent dedication towards bettering themselves. As a result, we see MAC teams churning out championships year after year after year.

While Kirtland had three final four teams in one fall sports season, I’m even more impressed at 2017 Marion Local who beat Kirtland in football, then turned around to beat Cornerstone Christian Academy (just 10 minutes or so from Kirtland) in basketball, both for state titles. Thank you to the MAC communities for setting the example of how small-school sports and communities should & ought to be.
And, just like that, there went my no soccer comment.
 

Rolly67

Active member
Most people would consider the NWOAL an upper level small school football division over the last 30 years or so but in that time frame they have only had 4 state champs but IMO would have several more if they had not ran into a MAC school. Some that come to mind are the 99 Liberty Center team that ran into Todd Boeckman/St. Henry because LC matched up really well with Amanda. The 03 Delta team that beat Coldwater then lost to Versailles in the semis and and the 04 Patrick Henry team that lost to St Henry. I think the NWOAL has only beat the MAC 3 or 4 times in the playoffs.
 

eagles73

Member
Lots of factors, tradition, socio economic, family structure, community involvement to name a few. What would you say the percentage of sports participation is for the average MAC school, 50%, 70% or higher? At Piketon, rural, southeast Ohio, our participation is around 30% for boys and lower for girls. We get about 60+ kids participating in all sports from fall to spring. Most kids play 2 sports, some 3. Our poverty rate, and single household rate is well above state and federal averages. I have watched kids walk these hallways, that would be excellent athletes, but for name multiple reasons, they never try to play a sport. Most have little to no home life which it takes to play a sport. Transportation, cost of equipment, time, off season training etc. Now some have argued with me before, why cant we motivate these kids to play, the same reason we cant motivate them to get passing grades or attend school on a regular basis, they have very little structure. Some live with aunts, grandparents or friends of family. If the bus didnt drive by their home, or if they wouldnt get in trouble for truancy, you wouldnt see them on campus.

You take 70% participation for any school, and that gives you an obvious advantage over one with 30%!
 

algernonsidney

Active member
They do take on some big boys.

2019: Bishop Watterson 31, Marion Local 7
2017: Marion Local 35, Chaminade Julienne 7
2016: Marion Local 34, Chaminade Julienne 14
2013: Marion Local 29, West Jefferson 0
2012: Marion Local 44, West Jefferson 37
Well, two of those are big boys. I certainly wouldn't include West Jefferson.
 

dnis30

Well-known member
Well, two of those are big boys. I certainly wouldn't include West Jefferson.
West Jefferson, while not a big school in size, is big in tradition.

22 playoff appearances
26 tournament wins
2 state titles with 5 final fours

95% of D7 schools wouldn't schedule them.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
It's the sociology of the MAC communities, in particular Mercer County. Genetics and the strong Catholic community are only smaller branches of the tree compared to the overall health of the family unit. The vast majority of Mercer County is working/lower-middle class or middle class: only 7.4% of the county lives in poverty. That's considerably low. Echoing an earlier point about the strong prevalence of two married adults as head of household: individually this would not be particularly notable, but when you factor it out as a pattern across the entire community (to where possibly 95% of the families are two-parent households) it produces both economic stability within the family and subsequently a stronger trajectory of mental health as well as quality of life indicators for the children growing up there. That's HUGE. Another avenue this is especially evident with the MAC schools are the public schools' performance: Minster and Marion Local are two schools right off the top of my head that are known to be some of the highest-performing public schools in Ohio. Mercer (absent the City of Celina) also doesn't have the scale of a rural drug problem that many other counties do; I presume that Versailles and Minster in Darke and Auglaize Counties also don't in comparison to what may exist inside Greenville and Wapakoneta. And in these terms, it's the fraught of the opioid epidemic for the past two decades that has swept through the Buckeye State, leaving behind suffering and poverty. That just hasn't landed in the Osgood-Chickasaw-Coldwater Metropolitan Area, or at least nearly the extant that we see elsewhere in Ohio.

When the family unit is strong, and that pattern extends across nearly the entire community, a graduating class of ~38 boys at Marion Local yields probably 36 boys where the home life is stable and there are the parental supports in terms of economics/availability/concern. That's pretty damn impressive for the D7 rank. Presume that at least half of those 36 play football - you get 18 players in one class. There are D7's in Ohio, public and private, that can't even get 18 players across FOUR classes. Numbers build competition, camaraderie and confidence in kids, and the trend that the MAC schools are able to buck with its participation numbers is impressive for a sport that is seeing less kids play statewide and nationally.

The genetics point carries a little bit of weight, but it's rendered moot without the aforementioned sociological strengths of the MAC community. You can have physical prowess that you see out of MSML, Coldwater and St. Hank, but without the foundational strengths of those communities you're not sniffing half of the success they do. I also imagine that a significant amount of the Gen X'ers and Millennials of MAC country either stay home after high school or return home after college-- that there isn't an incredible exodus of Cavaliers, Flyers, etc that matriculate to Cincinnati, Columbus or Indianapolis. Or, perhaps I'm wrong on that. Family ties are very strong in any case with many MAC clans. Anecdote: my neighbor of 25 years across the street is a Coldwater alum, and probably every other month he has family from Mercer County coming over.
 

Rangerfan

Active member
My main question for those in MAC country what is the median income for the area? Is there much poverty within the area? Is farming the main source of income? I ask these questions as someone from Southern Ohio. Where each of the questions I asked a main reason of why the populous in this area is declining.
With the only major football success up to this point is Wheelersburg in ‘17 winning state. Ironton last year losing in the state title
MAC country is actually a very prosperous little pod in the middle of rural Ohio.
 

ex_dc_atc

Well-known member
The simple, yet complex answer, is that there are a lot of things that go into the MAC's success. As mentioned already, it's not just a football thing, they compete across the board in almost every sport. Volleyball, Cross Country, Baseball, Basketball, heck, I even think they've had success in Bowling. But there are many communities in the MAC that all have similar morals within their families. Many people graduate and move back to somewhere in the MAC to raise their family. You have generations and cousins that have competed in the MAC. There is a genetic aspect as the men are tall, but so are the women. They do have strong family bonds. They don't have youth football as a whole and most don't have soccer programs. There's winning tradition across all sports. It's funny to say, but they have a lot of farm land up north, I imagine many of the youth understand hard work on a farm. They also have some very nice school systems themselves. The list goes on and on, but it's been going on for years and years, now it's tradition.
 

yakyak

Well-known member
Talked to a coaching friend of mine a few years ago that has lost to them alot in the playoffs
1. Genetics - they have the Jimmies and Joes
2. Coaching - They rarely get outcoached, which means you have to be as good or better at #1, which rarely happens, except at places like Kirtland.
3. Community - great support, no soccer, lots of two parent homes that promote the a winning culture.
This has to be the answer. #3 is much higher than 2 and 1 in my opinion.
 
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