Glen Oak

MCFry

New member
Th
Wel


Welcome to Yappi, seems like you have an axe to grind against a parent when the real issue is with the Smith girl, who the court case is listed under. Why is no one focused on the fact that the Board found two of the claims violate their policy on bullying? If a teacher did that, they would be fired immediately. We act like all this is false claims and blasting these girls, but the GO board disciplined him.
As for the video....you really think that was the time and place for a 16-18 year old girl to call out the person who has been abusive? On camera? Come on man, you could ask the same thing about thousands of people in abusive relationships every year who are asked “why didn’t you speak up?”
TheBranch79 I have no axe to grind-just getting the facts out there. And believe me its not the name you listed out of the three that caused this. They were a follower. Why I’ll agree that Coach is not a “saint”, what coach is?? I get around to many various sporting events. I’ve heard other coaches cussing/yelling at their players this past year in varsity football, jv football, 8th grade football, both varsity and jv baseball, youth travel baseball, and varsity bowling. Does that constitute bullying?? It would just like this case. My point is show me a coach who doesn’t “bully” by the same standards as Paul was charged with. Think about it, even a coach in BOWLING cussed at his players. Like I said, Paul is not a saint. He’s tough, demanding, and harder than todays flock of coaches. As far as the video, it was genuine from the young lady. The claims of bullying wasnt fabricated until the dad became enraged at his personal happenings on the team. The kids were used as pawns. I could sit here and give you the whole story, and as you seem interested in the case all I can do is invite you to stay tuned. Pauls side will be in the paper soon (remember NOBODY has heard his side, easy to come to assumptions when only one side has been heard). Plus a local radio station will be doing a program featuring Paul. And I fully understand you like him or you dont. Im not going to get into debates because he did something somebody didnt like 20 years ago. You dont become successful without ruffling a few feathers.
 
The OHSAA always gets beat in court. For the OHSAA to win there would have to be some major discrepancies in testimony. I would be shocked if the OHSAA wins. Although I do think it sets a bad precedent. Especially if it was someone upset about a position getting changed or playing time. I still don't understand the parent coaching for 2-3 years and then complaining.
 

MCFry

New member
People on Wackerly's side will never see the truth... that while there are many admirable qualities about his history and current status as a coach, he very clearly stepped way over the line in some things that were said and done. This narrative trying to throw one specific parent under the bus just doesn't hold water since literally every other parent involved plus alumni parents whose children had similar experiences have said the same things these few have. Kudos to the parents and kids for taking their mental health seriously and putting it first above and beyond just enduring/surviving mistreatment. They took the chance of losing half their senior year in doing so and gave up a senior season at the school they grew up in with teammates they had played with for years. To make light of this and act like there's some crazy ulterior motive is unfair to the kids. As Branch79 said, the third party counsel found serious issues here and he was lucky to keep his job at all. Being coached hard (what was said in the video) is not what is at question here.... there are a lot of 'hard' coaches out there. There are lines you don't cross and telling a kid you're going to reach up through their a** and rip their heart out is definitely one of them.
MCGal-Your certainly entitled to your opinion. As you stated in an earlier post you are in the circle with these three families, so defending them is noble on your part. As far as the private investigation goes, I will throw a couple of numbers at you that will shed some light on alumni parents and such not liking Paul. During the private investigation over 100 past and present alumni players and alumni parents and supporters reached out to the investigator in support of Paul and gave positive reviews about playing for Paul or being part of his programs. That says a lot. Not many folks reached out in negativity of Paul. As far as the “hand up the a** and tearing the heart out comment, simply fabricated for court. Perjury comes to mind. As I sat in on the hearing, I noticed one thing about the three ladies. If their emotions were tied up in knots, suicide thoughts were at hand, and their psyche was so messed up from playing under this horrible regime, while the hearing was going on and off to the side they sat laughing, giggling, messing around with each other. To me, if I was so battered and beaten down and a trial was going on from something that gave me suicidal thoughts and was so negative emotionally that I had to transfer I would be very glum and downtrodden. Not having a good time while a hearing was going on. Bad body language from the three.
 

MCFry

New member
Stay tuned
The OHSAA always gets beat in court. For the OHSAA to win there would have to be some major discrepancies in testimony. I would be shocked if the OHSAA wins. Although I do think it sets a bad precedent. Especially if it was someone upset about a position getting changed or playing time. I still don't understand the parent coaching for 2-3 years and then complaining.
[/QUOTE
The OHSAA always gets beat in court. For the OHSAA to win there would have to be some major discrepancies in testimony. I would be shocked if the OHSAA wins. Although I do think it sets a bad precedent. Especially if it was someone upset about a position getting changed or playing time. I still don't understand the parent coaching for 2-3 years and then complaining.
Stay tuned WhatsupDoc. Nobody wins in this situation.
 

hammer89

Active member
"OHSAA always gets beat in court"

No, people just remember the times they get beat. "So and so transferred and was ruled ineligible and sued and lost" isn't a memorable story, unless it's a high profile case like this.
 

MCFry

New member
"OHSAA always gets beat in court"

No, people just remember the times they get beat. "So and so transferred and was ruled ineligible and sued and lost" isn't a memorable story, unless it's a high profile case like this.
hammer89-Precisely. There was an attorney at the hearing in this case from Cincy. We got to talking during one of the breaks, I asked him what was going on in his neck of the woods and chit chatting. He stated he was here taking notes from this case. Said there are cases popping up in his area along the same lines. His words-not mine-That if OHSAA loses this case it opens up a can of worms for parents to call bullying then get a green light to transfer. He said this case is a precedent setter going forward. There was current and former GO players at the hearing. He looked at me and asked if the girl that took the starting point guards position and started this whole mess was here. I lol’d and said no she wasnt. So even from afar folks know exactly what this case is clearly about.
 

MCGal

Well-known member
It doesn't open up anything... there are clear circumstances here that would not exist in those other false bullying cases. The rule SHOULD include a part for abusive coaches because they DO exist. It should however take an extreme situation with documented verified issues shown to be true by a impartial third party.

Just because I know the group doesn't mean my opinion doesn't matter. You have that axe to grind which is fine. Do you realize there have been complaints about him AGAIN this year? Have you talked to the parents of recent grads? The number supporting him are less than those that know how bad this situation was. Keep trying to pass off the 'starting pg losing time' narrative. Have you considered that the kids who left were performing worse BECAUSE of the situation? There was plenty of playing time to go around to all of the kids on that team. This ridiculous attempt to deflect from the REAL issues has gone on far too long. No one involved ever said it was bad 24-7-365 so talking about isolated incidents where the kids seemed happy is unreasonable as well. Wackerly has done and does a lot of good things. This situation got toxic and lines were crossed. Period. The kids are better off for being gone, the team at GO has moved on... now let these kids have the senior season they should have after being treated incredibly poorly at GO.
 

MCFry

New member
It doesn't open up anything... there are clear circumstances here that would not exist in those other false bullying cases. The rule SHOULD include a part for abusive coaches because they DO exist. It should however take an extreme situation with documented verified issues shown to be true by a impartial third party.

Just because I know the group doesn't mean my opinion doesn't matter. You have that axe to grind which is fine. Do you realize there have been complaints about him AGAIN this year? Have you talked to the parents of recent grads? The number supporting him are less than those that know how bad this situation was. Keep trying to pass off the 'starting pg losing time' narrative. Have you considered that the kids who left were performing worse BECAUSE of the situation? There was plenty of playing time to go around to all of the kids on that team. This ridiculous attempt to deflect from the REAL issues has gone on far too long. No one involved ever said it was bad 24-7-365 so talking about isolated incidents where the kids seemed happy is unreasonable as well. Wackerly has done and does a lot of good things. This situation got toxic and lines were crossed. Period. The kids are better off for being gone, the team at GO has moved on... now let these kids have the senior season they should have after being treated incredibly poorly at GO.
Woah up there MCGal-Please highlight where I stated your opinion doesnt matter. I clearly stated your entitled to your opinion, didnt I?? Geesh must have hit an exposed nerve.
Two other things-Starting with your opening statement “It doesn’t open up anything”. Once again, clearly stated that was from an attending attorneys view on the case, not my words, however I do agree with him 100%.
Second, the players were performing worse?? My goodness performing worse and making it to the state final four? I’d have liked to seen how they played under another coach then. And I have been around plenty to know what former players think of Paul. A heck of a lot more have positive than negative. Some won’t like Paul for sure. Her little “Superstar Susie” may have got cut, didnt get much pt, or didnt work hard enough in the offseason programs.
The toxicity you speak of comes from one dads personal agenda. Not gonna change my mind, I know the facts. And please, by all means, shed some light on complaints from this year.
 

CasualFan24

Active member
It doesn't open up anything... there are clear circumstances here that would not exist in those other false bullying cases. The rule SHOULD include a part for abusive coaches because they DO exist. It should however take an extreme situation with documented verified issues shown to be true by a impartial third party.

Just because I know the group doesn't mean my opinion doesn't matter. You have that axe to grind which is fine. Do you realize there have been complaints about him AGAIN this year? Have you talked to the parents of recent grads? The number supporting him are less than those that know how bad this situation was. Keep trying to pass off the 'starting pg losing time' narrative. Have you considered that the kids who left were performing worse BECAUSE of the situation? There was plenty of playing time to go around to all of the kids on that team. This ridiculous attempt to deflect from the REAL issues has gone on far too long. No one involved ever said it was bad 24-7-365 so talking about isolated incidents where the kids seemed happy is unreasonable as well. Wackerly has done and does a lot of good things. This situation got toxic and lines were crossed. Period. The kids are better off for being gone, the team at GO has moved on... now let these kids have the senior season they should have after being treated incredibly poorly at GO.
This is a distant side note in what matters in this whole situation, but it absolutely DOES open up a can of worms for OHSAA if they lose this case. It's similar to what you see happening in NCAA right now, where one claim of mistreatment (ala Justin Fields from Georgia to Ohio State) would allow for transfers to happen on the regular. What that translates to is Player X is mad at the coach for benching him/her, coach tells the player they are too lazy on defense (or something of that nature).....in the world we live in today where people are offended by literally ANYTHING/EVERYTHING....Player X wants to transfer because he/she was offended or felt bullied by the coach because coach called her/him lazy. Not saying this is pertaining to this situation or case - but parents are willing to do extreme things to ensure the success of their children (just google search referee/officials abuse) including and not limited to exaggerating a story or fabricating their own version of something that happened to their kid just to get them transferred.

Now, pertaining to this situation directly - I pose one simple question that if answered honestly will tell the whole story.......If the young lady was not told she was moving from Point Guard to Shooting Guard, would any of this have happened at all? Seems to me like the coach was an a$$hole, but based on what everyone has said - hasn't he always been an a$$hole? Coming from someone that is not plugged into that community and doesn't know any of the people involved, it seems like everything was at least TOLERABLE until the position change was announced...no?
 
I read Jim Porter's editorial in Sunday's Canton Repository. I thought it was very good pertaining to this whole situation. I tell my wife all the time I don't know why someone would want to go into teaching. Especially with the way parents seem to attack teachers and coaches.
 

MCFry

New member
This is a distant side note in what matters in this whole situation, but it absolutely DOES open up a can of worms for OHSAA if they lose this case. It's similar to what you see happening in NCAA right now, where one claim of mistreatment (ala Justin Fields from Georgia to Ohio State) would allow for transfers to happen on the regular. What that translates to is Player X is mad at the coach for benching him/her, coach tells the player they are too lazy on defense (or something of that nature).....in the world we live in today where people are offended by literally ANYTHING/EVERYTHING....Player X wants to transfer because he/she was offended or felt bullied by the coach because coach called her/him lazy. Not saying this is pertaining to this situation or case - but parents are willing to do extreme things to ensure the success of their children (just google search referee/officials abuse) including and not limited to exaggerating a story or fabricating their own version of something that happened to their kid just to get them transferred.

Now, pertaining to this situation directly - I pose one simple question that if answered honestly will tell the whole story.......If the young lady was not told she was moving from Point Guard to Shooting Guard, would any of this have happened at all? Seems to me like the coach was an a$$hole, but based on what everyone has said - hasn't he always been an a$$hole? Coming from someone that is not plugged into that community and doesn't know any of the people involved, it seems like everything was at least TOLERABLE until the position change was announced...no?
I would assume the conversation went something like this...player X, you are now playing pg, player Y, you are now playing sg. I may be a little old school, but back in the day the chief ran the reservation, not the indians. Thats part of the problem, in today's society too many indians want to be the chief. If they dont like it they try to take the chief down. If I had a chief like this coach and the successful track record everywhere he’s been I’d let him play chief. No questions asked. Playing is a right, not a privilege. He’s employed as the head chief. Play where the chief tells you. Believe me, all he wants to do is win. If the switch didnt work out things would have changed. It was only a summer shootout for Gods sakes.
 

MCFry

New member
I would assume the conversation went something like this...player X, you are now playing pg, player Y, you are now playing sg. I may be a little old school, but back in the day the chief ran the reservation, not the indians. Thats part of the problem, in today's society too many indians want to be the chief. If they dont like it they try to take the chief down. If I had a chief like this coach and the successful track record everywhere he’s been I’d let him play chief. No questions asked. Playing is a right, not a privilege. He’s employed as the head chief. Play where the chief tells you. Believe me, all he wants to do is win. If the switch didnt work out things would have changed. It was only a summer shootout for Gods sakes.
And I love your analogy pertaining to whats happening in the ncaa. Great point.
 
I would assume the conversation went something like this...player X, you are now playing pg, player Y, you are now playing sg. I may be a little old school, but back in the day the chief ran the reservation, not the indians. Thats part of the problem, in today's society too many indians want to be the chief. If they dont like it they try to take the chief down. If I had a chief like this coach and the successful track record everywhere he’s been I’d let him play chief. No questions asked. Playing is a right, not a privilege. He’s employed as the head chief. Play where the chief tells you. Believe me, all he wants to do is win. If the switch didnt work out things would have changed. It was only a summer shootout for Gods sakes.
Seems like a mighty big sword to fall on for two girls to lose eligibility their senior season to see their friend be moved to shooting guard!
 
TheBranch, I saw GlenOak play Hoover both times. I think the 6'5 soph getting playing time might have been a threat to other people's playing time.
Sounds like these 3 were always the center of attention and have been the best. The first time I saw Hoover play GlenOak this year, their best player was a Jr (really good), she didn't play the second time against Hoover (heard she blew out her knee). It's sounding like parents were seeing the writing on the wall that those 3 weren't going to be the center of the team and some people couldn't handle it. They are now at a team where they are definitely the center of the team. This is from an outsider looking in. I could be wrong.
I just don't get the dad who coached and was ok with everything until a shootout this summer. That is a big question to me. It's a shame any of this had to happen.
 

MCFry

New member
Seems like a mighty big sword to fall on for two girls to lose eligibility their senior season to see their friend be moved to shooting guard!
Like I said being moved and the dads fury of not getting back on staff. More of a personal dad agenda and used the kids as pawns. Sad all around.
 

MCFry

New member
TheBranch, I saw GlenOak play Hoover both times. I think the 6'5 soph getting playing time might have been a threat to other people's playing time.
Sounds like these 3 were always the center of attention and have been the best. The first time I saw Hoover play GlenOak this year, their best player was a Jr (really good), she didn't play the second time against Hoover (heard she blew out her knee). It's sounding like parents were seeing the writing on the wall that those 3 weren't going to be the center of the team and some people couldn't handle it. They are now at a team where they are definitely the center of the team. This is from an outsider looking in. I could be wrong.
I just don't get the dad who coached and was ok with everything until a shootout this summer. That is a big question to me. It's a shame any of this had to happen.
No the big soph was not a threat to take playing time. Shes still developing. She would have gotten lots of jv and mop up time varsity to gain experience. Shes coming along well since basically being thrown in the fire.
 

my2sense

Well-known member
As I stated earlier, the issue wasn't Wackerly's personality, likability, coaching style or lineup changes. The case was did the "I was bullied so I transferred" include being bullied by a teacher/coach, or does it pertain only to student-to-student "bullying". The judge correctly ruled that the OHSAA regulation was for student-to-student.

I'm sure the girls will be comforted by the knowledge they stood up for what they believed in and most importantly are in a safer, healthier place. After all that's what matters most, not basketball.
 

MCGal

Well-known member
The kids are happier and in a better place but what they lost is undeniable. The OHSAA has to change the by-law. Counting on school districts to hold coaches accountable is laughable in this day and age especially when those coaches have big money supporters in their corner.
 

chocolatecity

Active member
It's a shame all these things went down GlenOak could have had a long tourney run with these girls, now the run is over for these girls and for Ryan Hill and the Knights
 
It's a shame all these things went down GlenOak could have had a long tourney run with these girls, now the run is over for these girls and for Ryan Hill and the Knights

Is this his first year? What happened to the old coach, Roads I think it was? I was at the Alliance game last year scouting for WB and don’t remember him.
 

y2h

Well-known member
Why is going to a Catholic elementary a requirement to attend a Catholic HS? How ridiculous of a statement. FIrst, the schools have been struggling to keep up #'s, so any influx helps keep the doors open. Second, a big part of these schools' mission is to help students achieve academic, personal, and spiritual growth that they wouldn't otherwise. This isn't about sports, it's about helping kids who will do better in the environment at these schools versus their home district.
Because if you never stepped foot inside a private school before high school and you are an athlete it's pretty obvious how you got there.
 

y2h

Well-known member
My personal experience with Wackerly was from back in the late 90's when he was at Hoover and Wooster's girls were steamrolling the FL every year. He brought in 2-3 transfers only to get beat by Wooster 3 times in 1998/99. He shows up for the District Championship game between Wooster/Massillon and sits on the Wooster side, and continuously throughout the game got up to cheer heavily for Massillon. His comments were cocky/arrogant and intended to start a situation that wasn't needed. I also was at a Hoover game where his PG (from Alliance), got ejected for repeatedly kicking a girl on the other team in the stomach repeatedly. He stood up in the coaching box and clapped. Dude has always rubbed me as being a jerk and antagonizer.
So you are upset because Hoover displaced Wooster as the dominant team in the Fed...explains a lot.
 

Mr. General

Active member
So you are upset because Hoover displaced Wooster as the dominant team in the Fed...explains a lot.
No because it took a Bully as a coach, who acts like a pompus dbag, and who needed to recruit to displace Wooster. There, fixed that for you.
 
McGal the OHSAA better not change the by law. It will cause more problems with recruiting and transferring. It is already sad that these schools are now targeting middle school kids. What is next, elem
 

MCGal

Well-known member
The rule can be changed but still make it for extreme cases only that are verified by third party legal counsel. The "we trust the school districts" line is absurd.
 
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