General NFL Chat

Indiandad

Well-known member
I think the NFL Is evolving, defenses seem to get better and better and the scrutiny of the QB position is forcing teams to show next to no patience at that position.

Of the top 20 QB's in the 2021 season, just two years ago, 11 are on either different teams or retired. And some that are on the same teams didn't play much this season due to injury.

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That's because they are good, not elite.

Teams actually want to win Super Bowls. It takes an elite QB to do that.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Depends on the team, Rams last year won the SB because of their defense and a good offense, I would not call Stafford an elite QB. 49ers went to the SB several years ago with Jimmy G. at QB and might make it to the SB this year with Mr. Irrelevant at QB. However without Joe Cool the Bengals would be a 7 - 10 team at best.
You are kind of arguing against yourself. "you don't need an elite QB to win, but without their elite QB the Bengals would be bad."

I am a Browns fan, but in my opinion, the Bengals have:
- best WR group in the NFL
- a top defense, probably close to top 5
- a top 10 RB group
- a great kicker

But you say without Burrow, they would be 7-10? I agree by the way. Why then do you start with the premise that you do not need a top tier QB to win?
 

14Red

Well-known member
It's easy for elite QB's to win Superbowls. 17 of the last 19 champions were elite over their careers. The other 2 had elite years.

It's much more difficult to win without an elite QB.
I think you are way overestimating the value of defense, running backs, recievers, and o line. I could say that 17 of the last 19 super bowl winners had great offensive lines and that may be true. Does the O-line and receivers make an elite QB? Peyton Manning won his 2nd Sb with the Broncos and it wasn't because of him.
 

adselder09

Well-known member
All that talk about the Burrow contract extension, was listening to PFT podcast with Mike Florio, he mentioned the Bengals could offer Burrow a deal such that he would get a % of the cap in each given year, as opposed to your typical 5-year, $50 million per year, type deal. Florio said no one in the NFL has had the stones to do a deal such as that and also that the NFL almost colludes against such deals happening. I'm not a salary cap guy, so I don't know the ins and outs of how that would work or even why doing it that way would be better for the Bengals, but interesting nonetheless.
 

WJ-OSU-STEELERS

Well-known member
Since 2000, NFL winning starting Super Bowl QB’s:
* 7 - Tom Brady
* 2 - Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning
* 1 - Matt Stafford, Patrick Mahomes, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer

Since 2000, NFL losing starting Super Bowl QB’s:
* 3 - Tom Brady
* 2 - Kurt Warner, Peyton Manning
* 1 - Kerry Collins, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhomme, Donavon McNabb, Matt Hasselbeck, Ben Roethlisberger, Colin Knepernick, Russell Wilson, Can Newton, Matt Ryan, Jared Goff, Jimmy Groppollo, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
You are kind of arguing against yourself. "you don't need an elite QB to win, but without their elite QB the Bengals would be bad."

I am a Browns fan, but in my opinion, the Bengals have:
- best WR group in the NFL
- a top defense, probably close to top 5
- a top 10 RB group
- a great kicker

But you say without Burrow, they would be 7-10? I agree by the way. Why then do you start with the premise that you do not need a top tier QB to win?
I am not. I am saying it depends on the team, the 49ers - Eagles don't need an elite QB to win the SB - Bengals do.
 

Irwin20

Well-known member
Since 2000, NFL winning starting Super Bowl QB’s:
* 7 - Tom Brady
* 2 - Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning
* 1 - Matt Stafford, Patrick Mahomes, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer

Since 2000, NFL losing starting Super Bowl QB’s:
* 3 - Tom Brady
* 2 - Kurt Warner, Peyton Manning
* 1 - Kerry Collins, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhomme, Donavon McNabb, Matt Hasselbeck, Ben Roethlisberger, Colin Knepernick, Russell Wilson, Can Newton, Matt Ryan, Jared Goff, Jimmy Groppollo, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow
I count 6 elite QBs on the winning list.
 

OhioBobcatFan06

Well-known member
All that talk about the Burrow contract extension, was listening to PFT podcast with Mike Florio, he mentioned the Bengals could offer Burrow a deal such that he would get a % of the cap in each given year, as opposed to your typical 5-year, $50 million per year, type deal. Florio said no one in the NFL has had the stones to do a deal such as that and also that the NFL almost colludes against such deals happening. I'm not a salary cap guy, so I don't know the ins and outs of how that would work or even why doing it that way would be better for the Bengals, but interesting nonetheless.
The NFL absolutely colludes against such type of deals. Financially, it's beneficial for a handshake agreement between all the owners on this. Same thing with guaranteed contracts. It's like an oligarchy.

However, breaking from this little pact screws everyone else giving you a competitive advantage.

"It's not called panicking if you're the first one out the door"
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
All that talk about the Burrow contract extension, was listening to PFT podcast with Mike Florio, he mentioned the Bengals could offer Burrow a deal such that he would get a % of the cap in each given year, as opposed to your typical 5-year, $50 million per year, type deal. Florio said no one in the NFL has had the stones to do a deal such as that and also that the NFL almost colludes against such deals happening. I'm not a salary cap guy, so I don't know the ins and outs of how that would work or even why doing it that way would be better for the Bengals, but interesting nonetheless.
It would not be better for the Bengals. As currently constructed there are ways to pay players without it being a huge cap hit until the last year or two of the contract. At that point you either renegotiate the contract pushing the cap hit out further or take the big cap hit and suck for a season and get a high draft pick and start over.


If you tie it to the cap as a percentage the team will get totally screwed.
Burrow will get a deal worth 50M a year with is roughly 21% of the cap. This is way to much to give 1 of 53 players and still be competitive. The current system allows the same contract AAV but the cap hit for most of the contract will be about 10% of the cap. The player still gets his money and the team can still pay other players around him.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
The NFL absolutely colludes against such type of deals. Financially, it's beneficial for a handshake agreement between all the owners on this. Same thing with guaranteed contracts. It's like an oligarchy.

However, breaking from this little pact screws everyone else giving you a competitive advantage.

"It's not called panicking if you're the first one out the door"
Nonsense

The team would screw themselves and the player by doing it that way.
 

WJ-OSU-STEELERS

Well-known member


Burrows new contract tied to a % of the cap is something I would think the Bengals & Burrow will explore. However you have the other 31 owners & Commissioner, the NFL Players Union and other prestigious players agents who all will have their say in anything ‘inventive’ happening with Burrow’s contract. The Browns owner had no concern to any of this when he gave Watson $230 mil guaranteed, I doubt if the Brown Family will act in the same manner.

Bengals & inventive - Until Burrow got to Cincy there is two words no one would ever thought would be used in the same sentence.
 

14Red

Well-known member
You can pay your QB all you want, but you'd better be able to get the QB to restructure and take less, or you are simply not going to be deep enough to be consistently successful. The Bengals are really good because they've been able to pay or go get other top talent. Bengals top for players by salary:
DJ Reader - DT
Trey Hendrickson - DE
Joe Mixon - RB
Jonah Williams - LT
Also some of their other top paid players - BJ Hill, Tyler Boyd, Sam Hubbard, Alex Cappa, Chidobe Awuzie.

J'Marr Chase is making some good money but Tee Higgins is not.
So it's not going to be the Bengals forever, their window is closing as we speak. Higgins makes a third of what Chase does, and a quarter of what Tyler Boyd makes.
There's alot more to this than having a franchise QB.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
You can pay your QB all you want, but you'd better be able to get the QB to restructure and take less, or you are simply not going to be deep enough to be consistently successful. The Bengals are really good because they've been able to pay or go get other top talent. Bengals top for players by salary:
DJ Reader - DT
Trey Hendrickson - DE
Joe Mixon - RB
Jonah Williams - LT
Also some of their other top paid players - BJ Hill, Tyler Boyd, Sam Hubbard, Alex Cappa, Chidobe Awuzie.

J'Marr Chase is making some good money but Tee Higgins is not.
So it's not going to be the Bengals forever, their window is closing as we speak. Higgins makes a third of what Chase does, and a quarter of what Tyler Boyd makes.
There's alot more to this than having a franchise QB.
You are clueless to how the salary cap actually works.

Why am I not surprised?
 

14Red

Well-known member
Coin flip for the AFC - I'll take the Bengals in a really close game.

NFC, I'll go with the Eagles at home vs. the rookie QB.
 

Spille

Well-known member
I saw that was incomplete live, surprised another official didn’t see that.

This game has 17-10 feel to it. Not sure Josh Johnson can lead SF to 10 though. Defense is going to need a score for SF to win.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Warner looked to suffer a “stinger,” Purdy injured, and Bosa possibly also hurt. It doesn’t get much worse at the start for the Niners.
 

Spille

Well-known member
Wow McAffrey just willed his way into the end zone. 49ers weather an early storm and missed call to tie it up. These defenses are nasty.
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
Bad day for the 49ers. Injuries, penalties and a bad call all lead to a 14 point deficit. Eagles really don't look good at all but getting all the breaks so far.
 

wghfan

Well-known member
I thought this 49er/Eagle game would be a good game to watch. It is very disappointing. Not impressed. Don't think the AFC game will be that much better either
 
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