General NFL Chat

Indiandad

Well-known member
Peaked, possibly. But here's a solution. As we know the "window" for winning in the NFL is supposedly 3-5 years right? What's the issue with the short window....everyone wants to get paid. The Bills can keep their core together, but they'll have to let some guys walk, and that's where fans and players get upset, but that's the way the NFL salary cap works. No one managed the cap better than the Patriots. They seemingly rebuilt that team 3-4 times with Brady being the common denominator.
Now you need some luck along the way too. I mean heck, look at the Bengals. If Huntley doesn't fumble on the QB sneak, the Bengals may have been at home a week ago.
Huntley didn't fumble the ball. Wilson punched it out.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
Ok, so if they give it to Edwards and he punches it in.
No guarantee. Edwards had 12 carries for 39 yards. Not exactly tearing it up. They needed 2 yards. The D line held back the Ravens push up front that even with a leap and extension the ball only went 1 1/3 yards.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
Agreed.

I hope that Burrow understands that when his contract negotiations begin. Other guys have to get paid to in order to keep winning.

We will find out then just how important winning is to Burrow.
The Bills problems and failure to focus on their offense was a decision taken well before Allen's contract was done or kicked in. They paid a lot of money for Von Miller. In the last 3 years they've spent two # 1 and two #2 picks on defensive linemen. Imagine if the Bills had used that money and those draft picks on a stud WR & O lineman.

BTW Allen like Mahomes has a very team friendly 2nd contract. Allen is not in the top 7 QB's with respect to salary and he will drop out of the top 10 this year after teams pay Burrow, Jackson & Herbert.

Like Mahomes, Allen has a contract that can be restructured every year with salary converted to bonus to free up cash. This will also be the type of contract that you hope Burrow will sign. The challenge for the Bengals is even if Burrow gives them a big discount, say 45 million per year, they're going to have to guarantee a lot of it. Let's say they Guarantee 80% of a 6 year 45 million per year deal. As I understand it that means they will have to set aside over $200 million dollars to cover the guarantee.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
The Bills problems and failure to focus on their offense was a decision taken well before Allen's contract was done or kicked in. They paid a lot of money for Von Miller. In the last 3 years they've spent two # 1 and two #2 picks on defensive linemen. Imagine if the Bills had used that money and those draft picks on a stud WR & O lineman.

BTW Allen like Mahomes has a very team friendly 2nd contract. Allen is not in the top 7 QB's with respect to salary and he will drop out of the top 10 this year after teams pay Burrow, Jackson & Herbert.

Like Mahomes, Allen has a contract that can be restructured every year with salary converted to bonus to free up cash. This will also be the type of contract that you hope Burrow will sign. The challenge for the Bengals is even if Burrow gives them a big discount, say 45 million per year, they're going to have to guarantee a lot of it. Let's say they Guarantee 80% of a 6 year 45 million per year deal. As I understand it that means they will have to set aside over $200 million dollars to cover the guarantee.
6 years at an average of $45 million per year is $270 million. $270 million x .8 is $216 million. $216 million x .75 (75% of the guaranteed portion goes in escrow) is $162 million. Still a lot of money to have to set aside but not $200 million. Buy lots of hats, shirts, Bengal claws, and whatever other merch they offer to build up the Brown Family's escrow fund.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
6 years at an average of $45 million per year is $270 million. $270 million x .8 is $216 million. $216 million x .75 (75% of the guaranteed portion goes in escrow) is $162 million. Still a lot of money to have to set aside but not $200 million. Buy lots of hats, shirts, Bengal claws, and whatever other merch they offer to build up the Brown Family's escrow fund.
I forgot that you only need to put 75% in escrow. Still Burrow may need to be paid 50 million per year and that would still represent a team friendly deal. My guess is that right now Burrow is worth $60 million per year when considering the inflation QB salary's are experiencing.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
6 years at an average of $45 million per year is $270 million. $270 million x .8 is $216 million. $216 million x .75 (75% of the guaranteed portion goes in escrow) is $162 million. Still a lot of money to have to set aside but not $200 million. Buy lots of hats, shirts, Bengal claws, and whatever other merch they offer to build up the Brown Family's escrow fund.
That's just Burrow's contract. There's other guys needing/wanting guaranteed contracts this offseason as well.

$250M into escrow this offseason is not a stretch.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Does anybody think that the Bills have peaked with this current group?

37-12 over the past 3 regular seasons, but still seem to be a distant 3rd behind the Chiefs and Bengals in the AFC with significant holes on both sides of the ball.
Bills/Allen miss Daboll at OC.

You should be pleased if you are still in NYC
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
No. It really hasn't been college Allen if you look closely at the numbers and watch his play on a week to week basis. If I'm not mistaken PFF had Allen as the highest rated QB and his yardage & TD production exceeded last year - as did his TO's. But Allen was forced to play recklessly and push the ball downfield because the Bills have huge holes in their offensive line and skill players.

Other than Diggs what Buffalo skill player would start for the Eagles, 49's, Bengal's or Chiefs? For the Bills to win Allen needs to play like Superman at least at some point in a game. And 14 times this season he's done just that. But this is an unrealistic expectation and not sustainable in the playoffs.

Most Bills fans began to recognize as the season went on that Allen's play masked major deficiencies in the offense.

The problem with the Bills is that they made the wrong strategic choice in 2020 when they declined to surround their newly emergent elite QB with high end talent. I've harped on this point in other threads but it bears repeating - defensive minded coaches no long succeed as head coaches in the NFL. The numbers are stark and impossible to ignore.
I hear you.

If next year holds a slide in comp % from Josh and more INTs, will you believe me ?
 

WJ-OSU-STEELERS

Well-known member
Top 10 qb contracts per Overthecap.com:

Player - Total Value - Avg./Year
Aaron Rodgers - $150,815,000, $50,271,667
Russell Wilson - $245,000,000, $49,000,000
Kyler Murray- $230,500,000, $46,100,000
Deshaun Watson - $230,000,000, $46,000,000
Patrick Mahomes - $450,000,000, $45,000,000
Josh Allen - $258,000,000, $43,000,000
Derek Carr - $121,422,481, $40,474,160
Matt Stafford - $160,000,000, $40,000,000
Dak Prescott - $160,000,000, $40,000,000
Kirk Cousins - $35,000,000, $35,000,000

Advantage of a qb on a rookie 4 year deal, assuming they can play:
Joe Burrow - $36,190,136, $9,047,534
Kenny Pickett - $14,067,904, $3,516,976
*** The reason for the difference in these two rookie deals is Burrow was the #1 pick in the 1st rd, Pickett was the #20 pick in the 1st rd.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
Top 10 qb contracts per Overthecap.com:

Player - Total Value - Avg./Year
Aaron Rodgers - $150,815,000, $50,271,667
Russell Wilson - $245,000,000, $49,000,000
Kyler Murray- $230,500,000, $46,100,000
Deshaun Watson - $230,000,000, $46,000,000
Patrick Mahomes - $450,000,000, $45,000,000
Josh Allen - $258,000,000, $43,000,000
Derek Carr - $121,422,481, $40,474,160
Matt Stafford - $160,000,000, $40,000,000
Dak Prescott - $160,000,000, $40,000,000
Kirk Cousins - $35,000,000, $35,000,000

Advantage of a qb on a rookie 4 year deal, assuming they can play:
Joe Burrow - $36,190,136, $9,047,534
Kenny Pickett - $14,067,904, $3,516,976
*** The reason for the difference in these two rookie deals is Burrow was the #1 pick in the 1st rd, Pickett was the #20 pick in the 1st rd.
None of those numbers matter.

Burrow will get the money. The key is when and how.
 

WJ-OSU-STEELERS

Well-known member
You will notice many more widening differences between Burrow and Pickett as time passes :)

Who can’t see that already? Pickett is no way, shape or form close to Burrow - probably only 4 or 5 qb’s in the league who are. But don’t take away what Pickett did in those two 4th qrt drives vs the Raiders & Ravens. Pickett showed promise, he took care of the ball and showed up when they needed him.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Who can’t see that already? Pickett is no way, shape or form close to Burrow - probably only 4 or 5 qb’s in the league who are. But don’t take away what Pickett did in those two 4th qrt drives vs the Raiders & Ravens. Pickett showed promise, he took care of the ball and showed up when they needed him.
I will be here to remind you until Kenny is Mason, without the long neck. :)
 

lotr10

Well-known member
I hear you.

If next year holds a slide in comp % from Josh and more INTs, will you believe me ?
If the Bills pivot over to putting more resources on the offense Allen's INT's willdrop and his already staggering production will only increase. By almost every metric this season Allen and the Bills outperformed last season on the offense. The issue with losing DaBall is that they don't have an "offensive identity" as Collin Cowherd likes to say. IMO any decent O coordinator could develop one with Allen at the head. While I can cut Dorsey (Bills OC) some slack as this was his first year as OC, turning Allen lose to create havoc on both sides of the ball is not a plan.

There are a couple of guys out there that could do a great job with a talent like Allen. My first choice would be former Bills backup QB and Colts head coach Frank Reich. He would get Allen under control and also be able to manage a renewed focus on bringing in talent on the offensive side of the ball.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
...
Advantage of a qb on a rookie 4 year deal, assuming they can play:
Joe Burrow - $36,190,136, $9,047,534
Kenny Pickett - $14,067,904, $3,516,976
*** The reason for the difference in these two rookie deals is Burrow was the #1 pick in the 1st rd, Pickett was the #20 pick in the 1st rd.
In what world does anyone put Pickett anywhere near Burrow in any type of comparison? Only in Stiller fantasy world.
 

14Red

Well-known member
How much would Joe Namath be worth if playing today?

Bradshaw?

Johnny Unitas?
Not as much as you think. The league was much less QB centric back then. I still say in a lot of ways the position is overrated. Pay attention to the next few weeks. If Philly or especially SF wins it all, what are we doing with the QB position? The LAST player drafted last year is the QB of the Niners. Jalen Hurts has been questioned since he lost his job to Tua at Alabama.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
Not as much as you think. The league was much less QB centric back then. I still say in a lot of ways the position is overrated. Pay attention to the next few weeks. If Philly or especially SF wins it all, what are we doing with the QB position? The LAST player drafted last year is the QB of the Niners. Jalen Hurts has been questioned since he lost his job to Tua at Alabama.
The Chiefs or Bengals aren't dumping Maholmes or Burrow if they lose the Super Bowl.
 

14Red

Well-known member
The Chiefs or Bengals aren't dumping Maholmes or Burrow if they lose the Super Bowl.
No they are not, and they shouldn't. But the league is so centered on getting the "franchise" QB. To me, there is alot more to football than having the right QB.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
No they are not, and they shouldn't. But the league is so centered on getting the "franchise" QB. To me, there is alot more to football than having the right QB.
Of the last 19 Superbowl champions only 2 did not have an elite QB (Flacco- Ravens and Foles-Eagles).

It is ridiculous to think that teams without an elite QB will stop trying to get one.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
No they are not, and they shouldn't. But the league is so centered on getting the "franchise" QB. To me, there is alot more to football than having the right QB.
Depends on the team, Rams last year won the SB because of their defense and a good offense, I would not call Stafford an elite QB. 49ers went to the SB several years ago with Jimmy G. at QB and might make it to the SB this year with Mr. Irrelevant at QB. However without Joe Cool the Bengals would be a 7 - 10 team at best.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Of the last 19 Superbowl champions only 2 did not have an elite QB (Flacco- Ravens and Foles-Eagles).

It is ridiculous to think that teams without an elite QB will stop trying to get one.
I think the NFL Is evolving, defenses seem to get better and better and the scrutiny of the QB position is forcing teams to show next to no patience at that position.

Of the top 20 QB's in the 2021 season, just two years ago, 11 are on either different teams or retired. And some that are on the same teams didn't play much this season due to injury.

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