Future of the SWBL

BucksFan937

Well-known member
When Milton was in the SW they won two titles and almost a third. Only one in the Buckeye. I’m not sold on the fact that Madison can’t complete.
If they get another freak of a class like the 2019 graduating class come through again, they will be just fine. I'm not sure how often that happens for a school like Madison. I do wonder how they will do when they no longer have Shawnee, Dixie and Northridge as 3 for sure wins. I know the bigger school teams have teams that struggle too like Oakwood, Monroe and Eaton. But Madison went 5-5 last year and lost to 2-8 Monroe, and I don't think they beat Eaton last year. Last year Madison went 5-5 season but went 1-4 against teams that will be staying in the SWBL.
 

CMorris_99

Active member
Just another reason to give Massie an invite. If they go big/small school divisions Waynesville and Madison could still win games and even the division. If they don’t add it looks like they will all get lumped together and I feel the quality the league has now will go down.
 

NewOldBlood

Well-known member
When Milton was in the SW they won two titles and almost a third. Only one in the Buckeye. I’m not sold on the fact that Madison can’t complete.
All you have to do is look at the history. Madison only had a hand full of winning seasons in school history prior to the last 10 years or so. When the the SWBL was one division before the split, I think they had 3 or 4 winning seasons and a couple of those were 6-4. Milton has historically always been better than Madison. I'm not saying they will never win again, but I would be willing to bet they will have more 2-8 seasons than they do winning seasons if some smaller teams are not added and the league doesn't split.
 

BlessEmAll

Moderator
Madison turned a corner in the last 5-6 years. The younger kids have a different bar set for them. I’m hoping the SWBL gets better with the exit of Shawnee, Dixie. Northridge and Milton brought value and tradition. Milton was a founding member of the original SWBL. This will be our second departure. I highly doubt the SWBL ever allows us back.
Milton’s traditions are steeped in the SWBL. This is a sad but needed move.
 

BucksFan937

Well-known member
Madison turned a corner in the last 5-6 years. The younger kids have a different bar set for them. I’m hoping the SWBL gets better with the exit of Shawnee, Dixie. Northridge and Milton brought value and tradition. Milton was a founding member of the original SWBL. This will be our second departure. I highly doubt the SWBL ever allows us back.
Milton’s traditions are steeped in the SWBL. This is a sad but needed move.
I'm not saying you are wrong, but I will have to see it to believe it that Madison has turned the corner. The bar has been set high, but I am still leaning towards believing the success that Madison had was more around the fact that they had a great group of kids come through the program, and not because the program itself has turned the corner.

I looked at the SWBL site just to get an idea of what Madison has done in the past. The site goes back to 2012. While that group was in high school the program went a combined 37-10. Aside from that, even including last year, in their other 4 seasons they don't have a record better than 5-5.
 

BlessEmAll

Moderator
I'm not saying you are wrong, but I will have to see it to believe it that Madison has turned the corner. The bar has been set high, but I am still leaning towards believing the success that Madison had was more around the fact that they had a great group of kids come through the program, and not because the program itself has turned the corner.

I looked at the SWBL site just to get an idea of what Madison has done in the past. The site goes back to 2012. While that group was in high school the program went a combined 37-10. Aside from that, even including last year, in their other 4 seasons they don't have a record better than 5-5.
I outlined their records from the last 15 seasons. You’re correct but the kids coming into the program are different. I remember the days that Valley View was a doormat.
All it takes is a few good classes.
 

RollingTrain

Well-known member
Not sure this is a good move for Hubbard. When the four schools that are leaving the SWBL go after next season, I think Madison is in trouble. They have had some decent seasons the last few years, but when things get back to normal where 4-6 and 5-5 has been the norm, 3 and sometimes 4 of those wins come from those teams. Year in and year out, Madison cannot and will not compete with Franklin, Bellbrook, VV and even Monroe. New Miami is set up for long term success. The MVC Grey division is a cake walk. He was picking his own OCC games without AD interference. Bad years at New Miami moving forward might be 6-4 and 5-5. Good years at Madison might be 4-6 or 5-5.
actually I was thinking the same thing...compensation might have come into play
 

NewOldBlood

Well-known member
actually I was thinking the same thing...compensation might have come into play
I heard that compensation was a factor, but Hubbard is not a teacher, so the difference has to be minimal at best unless they gave him something extra like a site manager supplemental or something along those lines.
 

bewildered

New member
From the 1974 season thru 1979 were losing seasons. In 1980 football season was cancelled, in 81 they were 6 & 4, and 82 Thomas Howard senior year they were 9 & 1 losing only to a GREG Baker led Springboro team 7-0. 1983 thru 85 David Reilly led Valley View. Valley View won back to back league titles I do believe in 82 & 83.
 

BlessEmAll

Moderator
Again, neither Milton, Greenville nor Tipp was in the SWBL in 82-83. Milton finished 10-0 in 82 and 7-3 in 83 playing Versailles, Tipp, Covington, etc. From 74-84 MU dominated the SWBL even being out of the conference in 82. We won the SWBL 75,77,78,79,81. SRC in 82 (3 undefeated seasons). 74 was the last season for the old SWBL with Northmont, Butler, Trotwood, W Carrollton, etc. VV didn’t play a SWBL game until 75. MU didn’t lose to them.
To Milton, Valley View wasn’t a blip on the radar, just like Carlisle or Dixie was to VV in the 90s. Oakwood and Bellbrook were our rivals in that period. I’ve argued that if those 82 and 83 Milton teams were in the SWBL we would’ve won the league. The 82 team playing vs SWBL teams up to 82, finished undefeated and unscored upon from PeeWee thru Freshman. The class of 83 Varsity was a juggernaut in 82. 1980 Milton played Cin Taft in place of Valley View. One of the reasons we left the SWBL was the inconsistency of varsity program of the new teams (Valley View, Carlisle, Dixie, Bellbrook) who joined in 75 and travel.
 
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bewildered

New member
I understand you are proud of your school. But to listen to you tell how great they were, Milton has had some really really good players, and them being the last team to beat Jefferson in 1970 before they went on their state record winning streak. But when you talk about bleak on the radar. When Milton came in to the swbl this last time VV beat some supposedly really good Milton teams pretty bad. The late 70's were VV only time having an extended losing season. I believe in the 80's they 1 losing season, maybe 2. And in the 1974-75 seasons VV was an independent because VV left a year earlier from the old southwest Ohio conference, changed its name the year before from the Dayton Suburban league.
 

dixietony

New member
Before Niswonger. So, 75-84. They weren’t anything like they were in the 90s.
Milton never lost to them until a non-conference game in the late 90s. I played against those Valley View teams. They were just ok
There's a difference between being a "doornat" team and "they were just okay". If you want to talk about doormat teams, I know of one personally. Lol.
 

BlessEmAll

Moderator
I don’t have to defend Milton’s history. It defends itself with records.
Dixie was a good team back in the 70s. Big RB named Stonerock was a really good athlete. Graduated in 84.
 

IRLMN1999

Active member
personally I think the SWBL will have a lot of programs interested in joining the league. Football wise speaking there is a lot of history and talent that constantly filters through and the constant exposure and competitiveness will be attractive to schools looking to start fresh. I believe they’ll have their pick of the litter assuming everything lines up logistics wise
 

dograt

Active member
personally I think the SWBL will have a lot of programs interested in joining the league. Football wise speaking there is a lot of history and talent that constantly filters through and the constant exposure and competitiveness will be attractive to schools looking to start fresh. I believe they’ll have their pick of the litter assuming everything lines up logistics wise
Size is the factor though. Just lost 4 of the smaller schools and there really aren't similar sized schools to replace them. There is already a big discrepancy between the 3 biggest (Franklin, Bellbrook, Monroe) and the 3 smallest (Madison, Carlisle, Waynesville). Brookville is an easy move to a smaller division (and depending on how this all shakes out, maybe should've looked harder at the new TRC with Milton). VV, Oakwood, and Eaton will be right in the middle. History says Eaton will resist adding big schools if they stay on the big side. Oakwood should, but they might not resist strongly.
 

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
i have no dog in this fight but the clinton county schools seem the most logical of any options. talawanda is intriguing but not as good of an option.
 

BucksFan937

Well-known member
Size is the factor though. Just lost 4 of the smaller schools and there really aren't similar sized schools to replace them. There is already a big discrepancy between the 3 biggest (Franklin, Bellbrook, Monroe) and the 3 smallest (Madison, Carlisle, Waynesville). Brookville is an easy move to a smaller division (and depending on how this all shakes out, maybe should've looked harder at the new TRC with Milton). VV, Oakwood, and Eaton will be right in the middle. History says Eaton will resist adding big schools if they stay on the big side. Oakwood should, but they might not resist strongly.
I agree about Brookville. I understand they want to stay in the SWBL, but to me it would have made more sense if they would have made the jump to the TRC. Enrollment and logistically I think they are a good fit. Just playing the small schools would be a disadvantage for Brookville, and they don't have to do that in the SWBL. I'm not sure about Eaton resisting adding big schools. I know if you look at Eaton's enrollment, it's dropped off quite a bit over the last 5 years, so that could add to why they would resist.
 

Captain Awesome

Active member
Waynesville is bigger than you think and growing, they were division 4 last year, bigger than Brookville, Carlisle, and Madison who were all division 5.

D3: Bellbrook(320), Monroe(330), Franklin(347)

D4: Oakwood(248), Eaton(218), Valley View(239), Waynesville(203)

D5: Brookville(170), Madison(168), Carlisle(192)

Potential new members: Clinton Massie (252)D4, Wilmington (349)D3, Fenwick (205) D3 due to competitive balance with disarray of GCL-Co Ed could be a possibility, Talawanda (415) D2, Edgewood (466) D2, Ross (329) D3.

I don't envision any other teams that would fit, but maybe someone has a few others they could add as potential members of the league.
 

BlessEmAll

Moderator
I feel that CM would be a huge addition. Fenwick wouldn’t leave the GCL. Agree with Dog about Brookville. That would’ve made for some great games vs Covington, East, Milton. Troy Ch will be a tough game in a few years. Too bad they didn’t bite. Does the TRC try to lure them in a couple of years or maybe an Arcanum or Greenon?
SWBL??
Bellbrook D3
Brookville. D5
Carlisle. D5
Eaton. D4
Franklin. D3
Oakwood. D4
Madison. D5
Monroe. D3
Valley View. D4
Waynesville. D4
Clinton Massie. D4
Ross. D3
Blanchester. D5
Little Miami. D2
This might be a great lineup for the SWBL. Little Miami is bigger but not a strong D2. Ross is good
 
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ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
I feel that CM would be a huge addition. Who are the other 3 or do they stay 10 teams? Agree with Dog about Brookville. That would’ve made for some great games vs Covington, East, Milton. Troy Ch will be a tough game in a few years. Too bad they didn’t bite. Does the TRC try to lure them in a couple of years or maybe an Arcanum or Greenon?
I could see Arcanum or Greenon absolutely doing this. Greenon fits fairly well size wise and competitively in most sports. Greenon has a stigma of having poor athletics but not at all true.

this year in the OHC South

Football- 1st
Mens Soccer- 1st
Womens Soccer- 2nd
Cross Country- 2nd
Womens Basketball- 1st at the moment
Mens Basketball- 2nd at the moment
Wrestling- no rankings but usually very solid
 
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dograt

Active member
SWBL Big
Franklin
Bellbrook
Monroe
Clinton-Massie
Ross
Talawanda
Edgewood

SWBL Small
Valley View
Eaton
Oakwood
Brookville
Waynesvilile
Madison
Carlisle

Same as current setup, 7 and 7. 6 league games and 1 crossover.
 

BucksFan937

Well-known member
I could see Arcanum or Greenon absolutely doing this. Greenon fits fairly well size wise and competitively in most sports. Greenon has a stigma of having poor athletics but not at all true.

this year in the OHC South

Football- 1st
Mens Soccer- 1st
Womens Soccer- 2nd
Cross Country- 2nd
Womens Basketball- 1st at the moment
Mens Basketball- 2nd at the moment
Wrestling- no rankings but usually very solid
I can't see Arcanum doing this. Remember when all of these stories broke out and we found that Arcanum was one of the leaders in splitting the CCC up in the first place? I find it hard to believe that they would then leave the new league to join all the schools that they were just trying to get away from.... just my opinion.

All the other schools seem like good possible additions. I like the flexibility that the SWBL really has. I think that they could end up with 2-4 good additions to the conference in the next few years.
 

BigArrrow

Active member
I can't see Arcanum doing this. Remember when all of these stories broke out and we found that Arcanum was one of the leaders in splitting the CCC up in the first place? I find it hard to believe that they would then leave the new league to join all the schools that they were just trying to get away from.... just my opinion.

All the other schools seem like good possible additions. I like the flexibility that the SWBL really has. I think that they could end up with 2-4 good additions to the conference in the next few years.
Was going to say the same thing about Arcanum, no way they leave one thing about the new conference (WOAC), I 100% think Shawnee, Trail,North,South,Dixie,Tri Village and Arcanum will stay loyal to each other people can bash the WOAC all they want but I feel they will be way more stable then the other new conference (TRC) I happen to know Carlisle and Madison both want in on the WOAC but most teams in the league don’t feel like it’s a fit maybe a couple of years will change that it would be nice to have a North and a South in the WOAC.
 

Captain Awesome

Active member
The GCL-Coed is facing some issues, they are about to be down to 5 schools with Purcell-Marion and Roger Bacon joining the MVC leaving McNick in a precarious spot as being an hour plus on a bus from their closest league opponent, so that leaves the COEd with Fenwick, Alter, Carroll, Badin, and CJ as a five team conference I don't think Fenwick is that big of a stretch they used to be in a conference with Franklin, Edgewood, Monroe and Talawanda.

Big: All D2 and D3 teams
Edgewood
Talawanda
Wilmington
Franklin
Monroe
Ross
Bellbrook
Fenwick

Small: All D4 and D5 teams
Clinton Massie
Oakwood
Valley View
Eaton
Waynesville
Carlisle
Brookville
Madison

Would not have to play any crossovers and allows for three non league games, could play crossovers if you'd like in weeks 1-3 would make for a heck of a conference in my opinion.
 

BucksFan937

Well-known member
Was going to say the same thing about Arcanum, no way they leave one thing about the new conference (WOAC), I 100% think Shawnee, Trail,North,South,Dixie,Tri Village and Arcanum will stay loyal to each other people can bash the WOAC all they want but I feel they will be way more stable then the other new conference (TRC) I happen to know Carlisle and Madison both want in on the WOAC but most teams in the league don’t feel like it’s a fit maybe a couple of years will change that it would be nice to have a North and a South in the WOAC.
I agree about the schools you stated staying loyal to each other. As a TVS guy it's nice to finally be in a conference with Dixie/Preble Shawnee. 2 bordering school districts with similar sized schools. It never made sense to not be in a league with them. For the WOAC, I would love to add Carlisle and Madison. That would be my dream conference if we could also add Brookville (which I know won't happen). But a conference of TVS, TCN, National Trail, Preble Shawnee, Dixie, Arcanum, Tri Village, Carlisle, Madison and Brookville would be a dream scenario for me.
 
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