Fentanyl

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
In my world, fentanyl is not used independent of something else. It is added to things (heroin, oxys)…it’s powerful, and cheaper than other drugs. It’s also easily over-dosed by the user or the manufacturer, which is why there are many deaths associated with it. The seller offers heroin…it’s spiked with fentanyl (for profit reasons…the same reason you “cut” cocaine with baby formula, etc.)…the user is typically unaware…maybe doesn’t care. It IS detectable…police labs will find it if mixed in with something else. Complicates life for the criminal…he gets charged with possession of heroin AND possession of fentanyl.

The comment from GCPRO about the user and his being responsible…well, no kidding. Substance addiction has been with us since we crawled out of the slime. Should it be handled morally? Therapeutically? Criminally? A combination? They’ve all been tried here and elsewhere.

We…us…like to get high.
They are cutting meth and coke with this crap now.

And since there are some posters on this thread ignorant to addiction of this degree, addicts know the danger and still take. Tough for non-addicts to understand.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
They are cutting meth and coke with this crap now.

And since there are some posters on this thread ignorant to addiction of this degree, addicts know the danger and still take. Tough for non-addicts to understand.
My dad was an alcoholic and smoked 2 packs of cigs. a day. Died from cancer age 78, cigs may or may not have contributed to his death, but his addiction was not my mom's fault not my fault or anyone else in the family, his and his alone. I know people who drank, smoked all their adult life and just decided to stop and go cold turkey and they did. There is plenty of help available and you can lead a horse to a watering hole, but you can't make them drink they have to do that themselves. The victims are the family members of the addict. Just say no and only the addict can do that.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
My dad was an alcoholic and smoked 2 packs of cigs. a day. Died from cancer age 78, cigs may or may not have contributed to his death, but his addiction was not my mom's fault not my fault or anyone else in the family, his and his alone. I know people who drank, smoked all their adult life and just decided to stop and go cold turkey and they did. There is plenty of help available and you can lead a horse to a watering hole, but you can't make them drink they have to do that themselves. The victims are the family members of the addict. Just say no and only the addict can do that.
I know some really talented folks go the way of the Dodo because of addiction. I’ve taken addicts to rehab who beg me to help them stop and then are back on the juice a month after release. I know a guy who was on heroin and who they had to bring in a priest to administer last rights during withdrawals. He relapsed. Heroin has a relapse rate of like 95%. That is insane. Until you see it and are around it you truly do not understand it.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
I know some really talented folks go the way of the Dodo because of addiction. I’ve taken addicts to rehab who beg me to help them stop and then are back on the juice a month after release. I know a guy who was on heroin and who they had to bring in a priest to administer last rights during withdrawals. He relapsed. Heroin has a relapse rate of like 95%. That is insane. Until you see it and are around it you truly do not understand it.
You lose family to Heroin? You lose kid's you coached to Fentanyl? I'm ready to lose both brothers to substance abuse. Yea, I know about addiction. Hell, I'm 30 years Sober. Yea, I know way to much about destructive behavior. Dems are for legalization of drugs. Make them all legal. Let the gen pop stay high and die. I'm tired of the BS. There has to be a measure of responsibility for the addicted person. Maybe not, let's speed up the road to death. Free drugs for everyone.

Mexico loves selling us drugs. If it were up to me, I'd kill every drug dealer.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
You lose family to Heroin? You lose kid's you coached to Fentanyl? I'm ready to lose both brothers to substance abuse. Yea, I know about addiction. Hell, I'm 30 years Sober. Yea, I know way to much about destructive behavior. Dems are for legalization of drugs. Make them all legal. Let the gen pop stay high and die. I'm tired of the BS. There has to be a measure of responsibility for the addicted person. Maybe not, let's speed up the road to death. Free drugs for everyone.

Mexico loves selling us drugs. If it were up to me, I'd kill every drug dealer.
Did not realize Dems owned legalization. Both parties getting pulled to the guise of making money (same as gambling).

It doesn’t matter. Fentanyl will kill addicts faster than you can make em.

We need better prevention and treatment. In a society like ours, where there is demand, there will always be supply.

I had a heroin addict beg me for help once and the only inpatient place I could find him was in FL. That is a problem because you cannot treat these addicts with outpatient.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
Did not realize Dems owned legalization. Both parties getting pulled to the guise of making money (same as gambling).

It doesn’t matter. Fentanyl will kill addicts faster than you can make em.

We need better prevention and treatment. In a society like ours, where there is demand, there will always be supply.

I had a heroin addict beg me for help once and the only inpatient place I could find him was in FL. That is a problem because you cannot treat these addicts with outpatient.
You are correct about treatment facilities for mental health. There is no where for anyone to go. I've paid for 2 of my brothers rehabs. It's not cheap. No insurance, you're out of luck.
 

OldSoulon

Well-known member
A couple years ago when I had kidney stones, they prescribed me Oxy. After talking to a good friend of mine, a doctor but one that is not practicing now (he's in management) told me to get rid of the pills as soon as I could and just stick to ibuprofen. He said it is so easy to get addicted that even a couple pills could get you hooked.
I had some after rotator cuff surgery. Of course, when you come home, you were packed with so much oxy for the surgery,
and that took a while to wear off.

It killed the pain for me afterward, but luckily, I didn't enjoy any "high" from it. It made me feel funny.

So I only took it for 2-3 days. The worst part is the severe constipation it causes. I don't know how the addicts handle that.
 

bigkat

Well-known member
You lose family to Heroin? You lose kid's you coached to Fentanyl? I'm ready to lose both brothers to substance abuse. Yea, I know about addiction. Hell, I'm 30 years Sober. Yea, I know way to much about destructive behavior. Dems are for legalization of drugs. Make them all legal. Let the gen pop stay high and die. I'm tired of the BS. There has to be a measure of responsibility for the addicted person. Maybe not, let's speed up the road to death. Free drugs for everyone.

Mexico loves selling us drugs. If it were up to me, I'd kill every drug dealer.
thats my point to, i have not heard Biden talk ONCE about what Fentanyl is doing to this country!!! and he had the smart one addicted to it.... for him to have the ear of the dude from China for 3 hours and as far as I heard he didn't bring it up at all....... what a POS for not doing it!!!!
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
I had some after rotator cuff surgery. Of course, when you come home, you were packed with so much oxy for the surgery,
and that took a while to wear off.

It killed the pain for me afterward, but luckily, I didn't enjoy any "high" from it. It made me feel funny.

So I only took it for 2-3 days. The worst part is the severe constipation it causes. I don't know how the addicts handle that.
I was lucky enough not to get a high off pain medications. My wife is the same way. My youngest had oxytocin after a surgery. Yike!!! He was a mess. Took half the amount prescribed and flushed the rest. He said it was a great feeling. This event happened after the word was out about the drug.
 
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I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
thats my point to, i have not heard Biden talk ONCE about what Fentanyl is doing to this country!!! and he had the smart one addicted to it.... for him to have the ear of the dude from China for 3 hours and as far as I heard he didn't bring it up at all....... what a POS for not doing it!!!!
Seal the border is a good start. We have a war to fight here at home.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
I know some really talented folks go the way of the Dodo because of addiction. I’ve taken addicts to rehab who beg me to help them stop and then are back on the juice a month after release. I know a guy who was on heroin and who they had to bring in a priest to administer last rights during withdrawals. He relapsed. Heroin has a relapse rate of like 95%. That is insane. Until you see it and are around it you truly do not understand it.
Had a nephew die from overdose so even though I am not around it daily I know what it can do to a family.
 

14Red

Well-known member
You lose family to Heroin? You lose kid's you coached to Fentanyl? I'm ready to lose both brothers to substance abuse. Yea, I know about addiction. Hell, I'm 30 years Sober. Yea, I know way to much about destructive behavior. Dems are for legalization of drugs. Make them all legal. Let the gen pop stay high and die. I'm tired of the BS. There has to be a measure of responsibility for the addicted person. Maybe not, let's speed up the road to death. Free drugs for everyone.

Mexico loves selling us drugs. If it were up to me, I'd kill every drug dealer.
Sadly politicians got conned into legalizing drugs to be able to tax it for more revenue. In my mind, the oldest stragety still works, don't start using drugs and you won't get addicted to them.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
Every substance addiction is awful, difficult to overcome and has victims far beyond the addict, but I deal with this stuff every day and there is no addiction more difficult to the overcome, or that has a lower rate of success, than opiate and fentanyl addiction. There's nothing else like it.

If we're going to explore the politics of legalization and a change in attitudes towards treatment rather than punishment, one look no further than how the political attitudes changed when the little princes and princesses in the suburbs who were from the families and friends of the politicians started developing oxy and opiate addictions and OD'ing. Nobody gave a **** while kids in places like the hills of WV and the back roads of Georgia went from using pill mills to full blown intravenous opiate abuse and were dying by the thousands. Many of those same glad handers virtually ignored the crack epidemic decades earlier as it didn't impact their little cheerleader princesses.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
Every substance addiction is awful, difficult to overcome and has victims far beyond the addict, but I deal with this stuff every day and there is no addiction more difficult to the overcome, or that has a lower rate of success, than opiate and fentanyl addiction. There's nothing else like it.

If we're going to explore the politics of legalization and a change in attitudes towards treatment rather than punishment, one look no further than how the political attitudes changed when the little princes and princesses in the suburbs who were from the families and friends of the politicians started developing oxy and opiate addictions and OD'ing. Nobody gave a **** while kids in places like the hills of WV and the back roads of Georgia went from using pill mills to full blown intravenous opiate abuse and were dying by the thousands. Many of those same glad handers virtually ignored the crack epidemic decades earlier as it didn't impact their little cheerleader princesses.
It's already killing many kids in the Suburbs. The thing is shhhhh is the word for about half. The don't use the death of the kid to educate. It's been here a couple of years. The only solution is don't do drugs. But, what do I know.
 
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eastisbest

Well-known member
It's already killing many kids in the Suburbs. The thing is shhhhh is the word for about half. The don't use the death of the kid to educate. It's been here a couple of years. The only solution is don't do drugs. But, what do I know.

You relayed yourself a personal close call in the family. When a doctor prescribes, people trust. The solution if any starts with taking the shame out of it and providing approachable options for trying to get off of it. But, what do I know.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Saw an obit the other day of someone I did not know. Young man in his 30's. His family made sure the obit addressed his opiate addiction and went on to state that he graduated from seven inpatient rehab facilities in 6 different states. Think about that for a minute. He wanted to quit seven times and went back to awfulness because that is what addiction does. I wish it were as simple as "do not do drugs" because it is not. There are people predisposed with more addictive tendencies so a painkiller after knee surgery is a larger problem. A kid at college who gets handed a pill. College kids are invincible you know. Addiction is always someone else's problem. Will not happen to me. Not my kid. I've seen alcoholics drink themselves to death and know they are doing it. I've watched gamblers pizz away everything they own and lose their family in the process. Addiction is real and the opiates are the worst. Bar none.

I worked next to a guy who was taking 10 - 80mg pill of OxyContin a day. That is a $100 a day habit. Never knew he was on the stuff. When an addict gets to that point you would only know when they are not on the drug. He started because of some surgery back in the day. Went through rehab a couple of times. Painful each time. Swore up and down he was done for good after each time, praised God for a second or third chance. Graduated to heroin (because it is cheaper) and wound up ODing. It is hateful.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Saw an obit the other day of someone I did not know. Young man in his 30's. His family made sure the obit addressed his opiate addiction and went on to state that he graduated from seven inpatient rehab facilities in 6 different states. Think about that for a minute. He wanted to quit seven times and went back to awfulness because that is what addiction does. I wish it were as simple as "do not do drugs" because it is not. There are people predisposed with more addictive tendencies so a painkiller after knee surgery is a larger problem. A kid at college who gets handed a pill. College kids are invincible you know. Addiction is always someone else's problem. Will not happen to me. Not my kid. I've seen alcoholics drink themselves to death and know they are doing it. I've watched gamblers pizz away everything they own and lose their family in the process. Addiction is real and the opiates are the worst. Bar none.

I worked next to a guy who was taking 10 - 80mg pill of OxyContin a day. That is a $100 a day habit. Never knew he was on the stuff. When an addict gets to that point you would only know when they are not on the drug. He started because of some surgery back in the day. Went through rehab a couple of times. Painful each time. Swore up and down he was done for good after each time, praised God for a second or third chance. Graduated to heroin (because it is cheaper) and wound up ODing. It is hateful.

There's no fixing a leg that has been amputated. We may be seeing the same thing with the way this rewires the brain. At best it might be a life-long on some other drug that mitigates or a death sentence for some. I wonder if they have clues why some become the instant or quicker addicts and others do not?
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
Saw an obit the other day of someone I did not know. Young man in his 30's. His family made sure the obit addressed his opiate addiction and went on to state that he graduated from seven inpatient rehab facilities in 6 different states. Think about that for a minute. He wanted to quit seven times and went back to awfulness because that is what addiction does. I wish it were as simple as "do not do drugs" because it is not. There are people predisposed with more addictive tendencies so a painkiller after knee surgery is a larger problem. A kid at college who gets handed a pill. College kids are invincible you know. Addiction is always someone else's problem. Will not happen to me. Not my kid. I've seen alcoholics drink themselves to death and know they are doing it. I've watched gamblers pizz away everything they own and lose their family in the process. Addiction is real and the opiates are the worst. Bar none.

I worked next to a guy who was taking 10 - 80mg pill of OxyContin a day. That is a $100 a day habit. Never knew he was on the stuff. When an addict gets to that point you would only know when they are not on the drug. He started because of some surgery back in the day. Went through rehab a couple of times. Painful each time. Swore up and down he was done for good after each time, praised God for a second or third chance. Graduated to heroin (because it is cheaper) and wound up ODing. It is hateful.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
There's no fixing a leg that has been amputated. We may be seeing the same thing with the way this rewires the brain. At best it might be a life-long on some other drug that mitigates or a death sentence for some. I wonder if they have clues why some become the instant or quicker addicts and others do not?
Great question and one I certainly cannot answer.

My beef with how we handle addiction has always been two fold. Much like mental illness there is a stigma AND one usually feeds the other (self medication). And secondly, our HC system is not designed for this. If you have surgery today they wheel you out of the hospital at 5PM with a script. Rehab is costly, especially inpatient rehab, and no one wants to pay for it. When I tried to get a another coworker help about 10 years ago the only thing we could find was outpatient. That can work for alcoholism but does not work for opiates. You need lock & key facilities with gymnasiums. To your point, you need to take the time to retool someone's entire lifestyle. Get healthy for 6 mos (read, meetings, distinct schedule, physical activity, healthy diet, etc). Even then it is tough. The buddy I referenced above had 4 kids. He was breadwinner. This is when I get incredibly mad because the politicians that approved this $chit and companies like Purdue Pharma got ultra rich while these poor saps and their loved ones suffered. I think of the countless souls who were handed a prescription by someone they trusted not realizing it was a miserable death sentence.

Think of what we might be able to do with prevention and treatment using the money budgeted for the "War on Drugs." We lost that war the minute Nancy uttered it.
 
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I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
Saw an obit the other day of someone I did not know. Young man in his 30's. His family made sure the obit addressed his opiate addiction and went on to state that he graduated from seven inpatient rehab facilities in 6 different states. Think about that for a minute. He wanted to quit seven times and went back to awfulness because that is what addiction does. I wish it were as simple as "do not do drugs" because it is not. There are people predisposed with more addictive tendencies so a painkiller after knee surgery is a larger problem. A kid at college who gets handed a pill. College kids are invincible you know. Addiction is always someone else's problem. Will not happen to me. Not my kid. I've seen alcoholics drink themselves to death and know they are doing it. I've watched gamblers pizz away everything they own and lose their family in the process. Addiction is real and the opiates are the worst. Bar none.

I worked next to a guy who was taking 10 - 80mg pill of OxyContin a day. That is a $100 a day habit. Never knew he was on the stuff. When an addict gets to that point you would only know when they are not on the drug. He started because of some surgery back in the day. Went through rehab a couple of times. Painful each time. Swore up and down he was done for good after each time, praised God for a second or third chance. Graduated to heroin (because it is cheaper) and wound up ODing. It is hateful.
What other real fix is there? You're basically a walking Zombie once you start Heroin. There might be help on the horizon. It will be a drug. A drug that blocks the ability to get high. This might help but honestly what is the fix? I'm serious when I say put to death anyone caught selling drugs. Wouldn't that clear this problem up?
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
You will get more honest dialog on Yappi than Congress or any Government agency. The new drugs will keep coming. Metal Health will deteriorate and the family support system will be gone.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
What other real fix is there? You're basically a walking Zombie once you start Heroin. There might be help on the horizon. It will be a drug. A drug that blocks the ability to get high. This might help but honestly what is the fix? I'm serious when I say put to death anyone caught selling drugs. Wouldn't that clear this problem up?

There's already vivitrol but it has not been all that effective.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
There's already vivitrol but it has not been all that effective.
Yes, but the roadmap is there. You can take a pill and if you drink you get sick. It all becomes so overwhelming. I go the simplified route. Don't do drugs, put the sellers and trafficking to death. I hate drugs and what they do to people. Time to exact revenge. Imo
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
What other real fix is there? You're basically a walking Zombie once you start Heroin. There might be help on the horizon. It will be a drug. A drug that blocks the ability to get high. This might help but honestly what is the fix? I'm serious when I say put to death anyone caught selling drugs. Wouldn't that clear this problem up?
Doesn't really stop it in places they do put the seller to death. It's corporate in a different form. They're smart enough to enslave the seller. Do you really want to be killing someone that had nor more choice than the one they sold to? Not all cases being the same but that's essentially the big business of this.

The ones making the big money never hit the shores. Each "fix" gets countered. Like any sport. Like any business. Until the head gets chopped off so reorganization slows down the business. And when the head turns out to be the legitimate head of a country, then chopping becomes a different issue entirely.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Saw an obit the other day of someone I did not know. Young man in his 30's. His family made sure the obit addressed his opiate addiction and went on to state that he graduated from seven inpatient rehab facilities in 6 different states. Think about that for a minute. He wanted to quit seven times and went back to awfulness because that is what addiction does. I wish it were as simple as "do not do drugs" because it is not. There are people predisposed with more addictive tendencies so a painkiller after knee surgery is a larger problem. A kid at college who gets handed a pill. College kids are invincible you know. Addiction is always someone else's problem. Will not happen to me. Not my kid. I've seen alcoholics drink themselves to death and know they are doing it. I've watched gamblers pizz away everything they own and lose their family in the process. Addiction is real and the opiates are the worst. Bar none.

I worked next to a guy who was taking 10 - 80mg pill of OxyContin a day. That is a $100 a day habit. Never knew he was on the stuff. When an addict gets to that point you would only know when they are not on the drug. He started because of some surgery back in the day. Went through rehab a couple of times. Painful each time. Swore up and down he was done for good after each time, praised God for a second or third chance. Graduated to heroin (because it is cheaper) and wound up ODing. It is hateful.
Yes, YES, and THIS is why you don't start!!! These are the stories that need to be shared. Yes, there are instances where someone with a knee surgery get hooked, but my guess these are the one offs, these are the exceptions rather than the rule. Doctors wouldn't prescribe them if a high percentage of people got hooked.
I don't have all the answers, but not starting when you're a teen is the first step, on anything, cigarettes, beer, weed.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
This book is now 7 or 8 years old but does a fantastic job of showing how we got here-

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