Elder Basketball 2020-2021

Fair point - but it is one more game against a coin flip opponent.

You only win so many coin flips in a row before your luck runs out. You’re minimizing one of those games.

Elders schedule gets tough at game 3. Moellers at game 5.
 
Really comes down to your goal, honestly. If you’re good enough to win state, and that’s your goal, it benefits you to knock them out early. The region is going to go through them anyway. An easier bracket and an easier path afterwards. Jump in their district.

If you’re goal is to just make it as far as you can, and play as many games as possible, then the avoid route is the way to go.

I would hope seeds 1-5 or so’s goal would be to win state.
 
UCArch said:
Fair point - but it is one more game against a coin flip opponent.

You only win so many coin flips in a row before your luck runs out. You’re minimizing one of those games.

Elders schedule gets tough at game 3. Moellers at game 5.
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It's not Elder's job to make Moe's route tougher to reach Regional. It's Elder's job to pick the clearest path for them to get to Regional.

You didn't answer the question: Which route is easier Hamilton/Princeton - LE - Centerville or Moe - Miamisburg - X/Wayne???

It's obvious Elder chose the right route to anyone not looking for an argument. I understand what you are saying but with 5 Cincy Sectionals it makes zero sense for anyone to jump in with Moe. If there were only 3 or 4 Sectionals it would make sense since you would avoid a murderers row of teams vs 1 game vs Moe.
 
I’m not talking about elder jumping in their sectional. That would be stupid. Plus, I don’t even think the rules allow a three seed to even jump in their bracket but I may be mistaken there.

And I believe in your scenario, Elder would have to play one less coin flip game, so yes, I would choose that route. And I’m not arguing at all, it could be a successful strategy with the right team.

More creative strategies could be employed by many teams every year besides just trying to avoid Moeller, which is obvious of what is happening.
 
UCArch said:
You’ve agreed and said you understand the premise that everyone avoiding Moeller creates tougher brackets outside of Moellers bracket, yet continue to say it’s easier for a team to make a regional bracket outside of Moellers bracket.

I can’t seem to grasp that.

You honestly think Elder has a better chance of getting to the Regional Bracket in their bracket vs. Moellers bracket? Outside of Moeller, it’s extremely weak.

To get to the Regional, we’re offering you the choice of playing Moeller once or playing Princeton, Lakota East and Centerville consecutively, you’re choosing door number two? Really?

You’re that scared of Moeller?
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This is clearly going way over your head. And for some reason you keep coming back to Elder, but as a top 3 seed they definitely weren't jumping in with Moeller.

Again I agree that teams are for the most part indirectly making Moeller's bracket easier by avoiding them. And on the whole, this may make the other brackets more difficult, however it makes sense for individual teams because they simply will not beat Moeller.

You keep bringing up Elder and if they were a 10-11-12 seed that beat Moeller once, then sure that would make sense but they weren't. They were a top 3 seed that was looking at an empty bracket when they filled their name in.

Now a team like Princeton or Lakota West, do they think they can win a few games against other GMC/ECC Teams and/or Elder, or win one against Moeller - that's the question. And most would say option 1, hence we have the bracket as it's put together now.

I really don't understand what's so hard about all this. You're criticizing the bracket and teams AFTER they were already placed. I don't think you fully grasp the process of the draw and how it actually works. Which is leading to your clear lack of clarity on what I and others are saying.
 
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I don’t lack clarity in what you’re saying. I don’t understand why you keep saying that. It’s a debatable strategy. Just because I’d take a different strategy doesn’t mean I don’t understand yours.

And in Elders context (or X, or East, or Centerville), jump in Moellers district (obviously they can’t play in their sectional, I assumed that was obvious).

If Elder jumps in where Miamisburg is, they have ABSOLUTELY given themselves a better chance of making the Regional bracket. It’s not even close. The 4 seed is Springfield and they are not good. One less game against far inferior teams before you get to Moeller. That choice was out there for them, and others, to make before Miamisburg selected.

So instead of playing Princeton/Hamilton, And then likely East, both of which are very capable of beating Elder, plus an additional game - you’d have two easy games and then Moe.

Once you get to the regional bracket, everyone is good. How people don’t see this as a viable strategy is beyond me. This is not an idiotic approach. Not even close.

They, and others, absolutely chose a harder path to avoid Moeller. It’s plain as day - you might want to reevaluate who doesn’t understand the draw. This decision point was staring multiple teams in the face and they chose to avoid it - if they didn’t realize that the same thing was going to happen that’s happened the last 4 years, again, they’re dumb.

We’re all going to beat each other up again while Moe goes on vacation for 3 weeks. Uncle Carl laughing all the way to the bank - again.
 
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UCArch said:
Really comes down to your goal, honestly. If you’re good enough to win state, and that’s your goal, it benefits you to knock them out early. The region is going to go through them anyway. An easier bracket and an easier path afterwards. Jump in their district.

If you’re goal is to just make it as far as you can, and play as many games as possible, then the avoid route is the way to go.

I would hope seeds 1-5 or so’s goal would be to win state.
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The goal is both - to win state and advance as far/to play as many games as possible. The teams you're talking about will NEVER jump in with the #1 seed, do you know how idiotic you sound making that argument?

The only teams that have a chance at beating Moeller are in the top 5-7 seeds. But those teams will not jump in with Moeller because there are 5 different districts/brackets to choose from.
 
UCArch said:
I don’t lack clarity in what you’re saying. I don’t understand why you keep saying that. It’s a debatable strategy. Just because I’d take a different strategy doesn’t mean I don’t understand yours.

And in Elders context (or X, or East, or Centerville), jump in Moellers district (obviously they can’t play in their sectional, I assumed that was obvious).

If Elder jumps in where Miamisburg is, they have ABSOLUTELY given themselves a better chance of making the Regional bracket. It’s not even close. The 4 seed is Springfield and they are not good. One less game against far inferior teams before you get to Moeller. That choice was out there for them, and others, to make before Miamisburg selected.

So instead of playing Princeton/Hamilton, And then likely East, both of which are very capable of beating Elder, plus an additional game - you’d have two easy games and then Moe.

Once you get to the regional bracket, everyone is good. How people don’t see this as a viable strategy is beyond me. This is not an idiotic approach. Not even close.

They, and others, absolutely chose a harder path to avoid Moeller. It’s plain as day - you might want to reevaluate who doesn’t understand the draw. This decision point was staring multiple teams in the face and they chose to avoid it - if they didn’t realize that the same thing was going to happen that’s happened the last 4 years, again, they’re dumb.
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This is exactly what I'm talking about, you don't know how it works. If they could jump into the Dayton bracket, I'm sure they would. But seeing as they have choice of 5 Cincinnati brackets, not 3 Dayton brackets, they can't.

Teams actually used to be able to jump into a SWO bracket that took them through Columbus instead of Cincinnati, which Elder and Moeller both did in the mid 2000s. Elder lost in what was the Elite 8 to Reynoldsburg up at the Columbus Fairgrounds if I remember correctly.
 
adselder09 said:
This is exactly what I'm talking about, you don't know how it works. If they could jump into the Dayton bracket, I'm sure they would. But seeing as they have choice of 5 Cincinnati brackets, not 3 Dayton brackets, they can't.

Teams actually used to be able to jump into a SWO bracket that took them through Columbus instead of Cincinnati, which Elder and Moeller both did in the mid 2000s. Elder lost in what was the Elite 8 to Reynoldsburg up at the Columbus Fairgrounds if I remember correctly.
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True. Moe and X played one another in the state championship game in Columbus around 1998.
 
UCArch said:
I don’t lack clarity in what you’re saying. I don’t understand why you keep saying that. It’s a debatable strategy. Just because I’d take a different strategy doesn’t mean I don’t understand yours.

And in Elders context (or X, or East, or Centerville), jump in Moellers district (obviously they can’t play in their sectional, I assumed that was obvious).

If Elder jumps in where Miamisburg is, they have ABSOLUTELY given themselves a better chance of making the Regional bracket. It’s not even close. The 4 seed is Springfield and they are not good. One less game against far inferior teams before you get to Moeller. That choice was out there for them, and others, to make before Miamisburg selected.

So instead of playing Princeton/Hamilton, And then likely East, both of which are very capable of beating Elder, plus an additional game - you’d have two easy games and then Moe.

Once you get to the regional bracket, everyone is good. How people don’t see this as a viable strategy is beyond me. This is not an idiotic approach. Not even close.

They, and others, absolutely chose a harder path to avoid Moeller. It’s plain as day - you might want to reevaluate who doesn’t understand the draw. This decision point was staring multiple teams in the face and they chose to avoid it - if they didn’t realize that the same thing was going to happen that’s happened the last 4 years, again, they’re dumb.

We’re all going to beat each other up again while Moe goes on vacation for 3 weeks. Uncle Carl laughing all the way to the bank - again.
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OK, you are moving all over the place at this point. First of all Elder and every other Cincy team can only play in the 5 Cincy Sectionals. It was not an option for Elder to jump in with Miamisburg. The Dayton schools can play in Dayton only and are not allowed to jump into a Cincy Sectional. There are 5 Cincy and 3 Dayton Sectionals. Lastly, any team can pick what bracket they want to go into. For instance X could have jumped in with Moe instead of going into an empty bracket.
 
So everyone avoids Moe and then the system bleeds them into the weakest District?

LOLOL - Uncle Carl owns the whole process. That makes a terrible process even worse.

And coaches don’t have issues with this? How??
 
I’m over it.

Still really surprised how they can allow this to benefit one team so much. But whatever.

Just create a normal bracket and play it out.
 
UCArch said:
I don’t lack clarity in what you’re saying. I don’t understand why you keep saying that. It’s a debatable strategy. Just because I’d take a different strategy doesn’t mean I don’t understand yours.

And in Elders context (or X, or East, or Centerville), jump in Moellers district (obviously they can’t play in their sectional, I assumed that was obvious).

If Elder jumps in where Miamisburg is, they have ABSOLUTELY given themselves a better chance of making the Regional bracket. It’s not even close. The 4 seed is Springfield and they are not good. One less game against far inferior teams before you get to Moeller. That choice was out there for them, and others, to make before Miamisburg selected.

So instead of playing Princeton/Hamilton, And then likely East, both of which are very capable of beating Elder, plus an additional game - you’d have two easy games and then Moe.

Once you get to the regional bracket, everyone is good. How people don’t see this as a viable strategy is beyond me. This is not an idiotic approach. Not even close.

They, and others, absolutely chose a harder path to avoid Moeller. It’s plain as day - you might want to reevaluate who doesn’t understand the draw. This decision point was staring multiple teams in the face and they chose to avoid it - if they didn’t realize that the same thing was going to happen that’s happened the last 4 years, again, they’re dumb.

We’re all going to beat each other up again while Moe goes on vacation for 3 weeks. Uncle Carl laughing all the way to the bank - again.
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Miamisburg is Dayton sectional, so a Cincinnati team couldn't choose that one regardless of it being empty when they pick. Now if its a Cincinnati sectional I'd choose it as one of the 2-5 seeds. Why? Because as with every year everyone runs from Moeller, so that would be a cake to districts against Moeller. But I think Moeller purposely chose Cincinnati sectional that is matched up against a Dayton one, knowing that Dayton isn't deep and after Centerville and Wayne there is a good drop off. As soon as Moeller picks that sectional Centerville and Wayne are going to opposite brackets, leaving Miamisburg to have to choose Moeller. Smart move on Moeller's part to make their road even easier knowing how everyone runs from them.
 
The draw system is pretty silly in and of itself in my opinion anyway. The silliness of it gets exacerbated by everyone being scared of one team. But hey, I'm fine with everyone not even making the tournament in the first place, so I know I'm way in the minority in this state.
 
And if more coaches aren’t up in arms about it after several years of it playing out the same way, then it makes me wonder if they’ve caught on. Or if they simply don’t care because they don’t have to play Moeller.
 
FYI, the Panthers are ranked in the state, play LaSalle for a possible shot at being co-champs of the GCL tomorrow night and face Harrison and Elder alum Coach Marx in the tournament next Friday.

Maybe we should start a bitchin' about the draw process thread
 
What are the odds X can win at Moeller tomorrow, along with an Elder win over LaSalle to make it a 3-way tie for GCL? X has been playing well, but Moe won going away a few weeks ago at X.
 
adselder09 said:
What are the odds X can win at Moeller tomorrow, along with an Elder win over LaSalle to make it a 3-way tie for GCL? X has been playing well, but Moe won going away a few weeks ago at X.
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It’s definitely possible. Elder needs to approach the LaSalle game like a playoff game. Big deal to share the GCL this year, especially with 3 teams in the state top 10.
 
adselder09 said:
What are the odds X can win at Moeller tomorrow, along with an Elder win over LaSalle to make it a 3-way tie for GCL? X has been playing well, but Moe won going away a few weeks ago at X.
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Hard to say, Rodgers is on absolute tear, but besides him, if Semona & Kirby aren’t hitting shots, it’s going to be a challenge.
 
SMARTY22 said:
Have not seen anything from OHSAA but I’m thinking if “regular fans” are not permitted there will be some type of live stream offered.
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Saw a tweet the other day that chatter box or some streaming service was going to have every single game live streamed in the SWO brackets. I can't find the link now, but I'm sure it will be pay to watch or sign up fee to watch.
 
cincyelder said:
FYI, the Panthers are ranked in the state, play LaSalle for a possible shot at being co-champs of the GCL tomorrow night and face Harrison and Elder alum Coach Marx in the tournament next Friday.

Maybe we should start a bitchin' about the draw process thread
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They really need a win tomorrow to get things trending back in the right direction. If you’ve seen them play the last 2 weeks, outside of the 1st half vs Moe, they have not been good and really need some positive momentum going into the Tournament.
 
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adselder09 said:
Saw a tweet the other day that chatter box or some streaming service was going to have every single game live streamed in the SWO brackets. I can't find the link now, but I'm sure it will be pay to watch or sign up fee to watch.
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I agree. The games will be streamed somewhere and there will be a fee. The Girls Tournament has started, Parents or 2 people Player the Fan Policy? Depend on venue?
 
27 all at half. Both teams playing pretty sloppy and lackadaisical. It was so bad for Elder, JS got more fired up than I’ve ever seen him. Maybe he just drew more attention to himself bc there’s no fans, but he tore into his team. And to his credit, it woke them up a bit. Browne has been a nice spark off the bench. Not sure how many minutes he’s eligible to play after the JV game.
 
Everyone still think the Elder D is fine? They allowed 18 Points in 1 qt to the worst team in the League. UCArch the Coaches don’t piss and moan as much as you do about the draw process. Why should any GCL Coach jump in with Moeller to play them 3 times before its absolutely necessary? I still think Elder wins 3 Games max in Tournament. Not shooting all that well as of late and subpar D imo.
 
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