Eaton Invitational

runs4funs

New member
Sounds like the Boys Varsity race was quite the mess today, course wasn't marked properly and there was no gator so Lakota runners that were leading the race went the wrong way. Chalk it up to 2020 I guess...
 

Supertramp

Member
Such a shame. This morning had perfect conditions for a fast day. Those Lakota West boys were flying. I think they would have been under 15:15.

How do you not drive a gator upfront or at least have course marshalls directing traffic? I feel terrible for everyone in that race. So many great performances ruined. After everything else this year they have to deal with.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
The runners behind them knew the course.
Indeed they did. I can't decide if I should applaud them for doing what they were supposed to do.

I can recall 2 instances where female runners from my school made wrong turns. On the 1st occasion, the top 2 girls were out front and got to a spot where they were supposed to go straight, but they claimed someone told them to turn. They made it 80-100m before doubling back to fix their mistake. They ended up 6th and 7th. The sad part about this one was it was our home course. They thought maybe something was changed due to the meet being contested in a driving rainstorm.

A few years later, the team arrived late to a meet, so they couldn't inspect the entire course. I instructed them to "walk what they didn't know and skip what they knew." That was the kiss of death. The course has a portion that weaves its among 3 ponds. In the race, 2 of the girls were in a lead pack of 4. They got b/w the 1st 2 ponds and none of the knew where to go (lead vehicle skipped that part to pick them up at the exit to the 3 ponds). They were to go around 2 of the ponds and then turn left to go b/w the 1st 2 and the 3rd pond. Instead, they turned b/w the 1st 2 ponds. After the race, the official was brought out to inspect that spot on the course and decided to DQ the top 4 girls which negated a 1-2 finish from my school's girls. There was no marking directing them b/w the 1st 2 ponds, and the grass on that path wasn't cut either. 1 of the other 2 girls thought they should go that way, and the other 3 followed. They simply didn't know the course as they should've, and they paid for it. Part of it was our fault for not arriving to the meet as early as we should've to allow ample time to walk the course, but it wasn't a new meet or course for our 2 girls.
 

RedChief

Member
The runners behind them knew the course.
They all knew the course. The correct route was taped off and a worker instructed them to go the other route (the JH course). And, it wasn’t just Lakota runners, but most of the field. The runners after the first two doubled back and ran an extra 1/2 mile. That’s why the times are so bad from the race.
 

5x26

Active member
Even more crazy, The two boys that quit and walked off the course were given false times and placed 1 and 2. Taking the win away from the Bellbrook runner and the Lebanon team. Never seen anything like it.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
I was at a meet where the gator was so used to driving the MS course that it did it again for the HS girls first race. Nothing is foolproof.

When I ran, there were no lead vehicles. Red for Left turns, yellow for Right turns and Blue for straight. I do not think there should be lead vehicles, but I do think there should always be a trailing vehicle.

Not sure how you guard against someone telling you to run the wrong way. Even if I was 100% positive, I still don't think I would be 100% positive.
 

SLS

Member
I've run a few road races where course "guides" misdirected runners. At one race the former race director didn't realize the course had been changed and starting directing runners in the wrong direction. In another race the "guide" turned the first 20 or so runners around too soon, realized her error, then had the rest of the field go an additional 200 meters before turning back.
My brother once had to wait for a train during a 10k race. Someone hadn't checked the train schedule.

I believe there was an off-course fiasco involving a police motorcycle leading a group of 5 or 6 top runners astray at the Flying Pig a few years ago.
 
Things like this happen. It's unfortunate and frustrating to the coaches and athletes, I'm sure, but life goes on. Thankfully it was a midseason invitational and not a league/district/regional/state meet with higher stakes.

Did I read correctly that the front two runners dropped out but were still inserted into the results? That seems bizarre. Regardless of the circumstances that led them to not finishing, they didn't finish. Presumptive results seem like a bad idea to me.
 
It even happens in track. Was at a Regional track meet when they started stopping the leaders after 7 laps in the 3200 and mid to back backers kept going. Ended up we had to come back 2 or 3 days later and run it again only a few days before State. I guess it can be hard at times to count to 8!
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
Particularly when you are running all out. Why even post results in that situation?
It's a learning moment. Going forward, know the course. If they did not run the proper course, they are DQ'd I would imagine. Unless every single other runner also ran the wrong course. I think part of the sport is knowing the course. I don't feel too bad for them, but I can certainly understand that being told by an "official" is very hard to go against. Very odd though that results would include runners not running the correct course. I could see not posting any results at all vs team scores that have to be wrong.
 

5x26

Active member
It's a learning moment. Going forward, know the course. If they did not run the proper course, they are DQ'd I would imagine. Unless every single other runner also ran the wrong course. I think part of the sport is knowing the course. I don't feel too bad for them, but I can certainly understand that being told by an "official" is very hard to go against. Very odd though that results would include runners not running the correct course. I could see not posting any results at all vs team scores that have to be wrong.
They were not DQ'd they were given fake times after realizing they went the wrong way and walked off the course going back to the camps, and then awarded fictitious times getting the individual 1st and 2nd place and then team win. EVERYONE else doubled back and ran the proper course but the leaders. That is unacceptable. Lebanon boys deserve that win in this situation and the Bellbrook runner deserves the individual win.
 

CC Track Fan

Active member
I do not think there should be lead vehicles,
To me the most important reason for a lead vehicle is to clear the course of spectators. Saves the lead runner from being taken out by a fan. If the lead runner in a pack they are much more likely to be seen by fans but if you have a sole runner that has a 30 sec lead many don't see him/her coming.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
They were not DQ'd they were given fake times after realizing they went the wrong way and walked off the course going back to the camps, and then awarded fictitious times getting the individual 1st and 2nd place and then team win. EVERYONE else doubled back and ran the proper course but the leaders. That is unacceptable. Lebanon boys deserve that win in this situation and the Bellbrook runner deserves the individual win.
They DQ'd themselves. I guess now we can just assume outcomes. Not good.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
To me the most important reason for a lead vehicle is to clear the course of spectators. Saves the lead runner from being taken out by a fan. If the lead runner in a pack they are much more likely to be seen by fans but if you have a sole runner that has a 30 sec lead many don't see him/her coming.
I've never seen a lead runner interfered with in 50 years. (Not saying it doesn't happen, I just haven't seen it.) I have seen issues with the lead vehicle going the wrong way, going too fast or too slow, getting into it with spectators for no good reason. I personally just don't see a need for it. Maybe this year when it might not be the easiest or best thing to do to walk the course ahead of time. We use one more for a communications tool than anything. I'm not sure it's a help to the runners.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
To me the most important reason for a lead vehicle is to clear the course of spectators. Saves the lead runner from being taken out by a fan. If the lead runner in a pack they are much more likely to be seen by fans but if you have a sole runner that has a 30 sec lead many don't see him/her coming.
I've seen more problems w/ spectators walking out in front of stragglers as opposed to lead runners. The one time in my lowly running career that I was behind a lead vehicle, I didn't care for it. Breathing all of that 4-wheeler exhaust wasn't much of a perk for leading the race.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
I've never seen a lead runner interfered with in 50 years. (Not saying it doesn't happen, I just haven't seen it.) I have seen issues with the lead vehicle going the wrong way, going too fast or too slow, getting into it with spectators for no good reason. I personally just don't see a need for it. Maybe this year when it might not be the easiest or best thing to do to walk the course ahead of time. We use one more for a communications tool than anything. I'm not sure it's a help to the runners.
To my original statement, I guess I need to add that if you're going to be a course marshal, then you better know the course or at least know what's supposed to happen in your sector of the course.

We use a Gator to cone and flag the course and to bring in any runners who have withdrawn from the race and need assistance back to their team camps. That's it.
 
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Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
It even happens in track. Was at a Regional track meet when they started stopping the leaders after 7 laps in the 3200 and mid to back backers kept going. Ended up we had to come back 2 or 3 days later and run it again only a few days before State. I guess it can be hard at times to count to 8!
I remember that race. IIRC, the 5th runner knew she had another lap and kept going. The 1st 4 jumped up from the infield and ran that 8th lap with 3 of the 4 making it into the top 4. A call was made to the OHSAA (mot likely to Dale Gabor), and the response was something along the lines of, "you're only sending 4 runners to state, so figure something out." The solution was to come back for a re-run 2 days in later in 90+ degree heat. IIRC, there was a clock at the finish line. I would think a few of those top 4 runners would've realized their times couldn't possibly be correct for having completed 8 laps.
 
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Running Man 101

Active member
I've seen more problems w/ spectators walking out in front of stragglers as opposed to lead runners. The one time in my lowly running career that I was behind a lead vehicle, I didn't care for it. Breathing all of that 4-wheeler exhaust wasn't much of a perk for leading the race.
Dust can be bad this time of year as well. People are starting to use bicycles as well, which is better I think. Still how do you post times for people that never finished. Eaton is quite experienced at holding meets. This is strange.
 

SLS

Member
Not sure what year, some time in the 90's, I saw an official walk in front of the lead runner in the DI boys' race at state and cause him to stumble. He had a sizable lead, but it could have been disastrous in a much closer race.
 

yj_runfan

Well-known member
I remember that race. IIRC, the 5th runner knew she had another lap and kept going. The 1st 4 jumped up from the infield and ran that 8th lap with 3 of the 4 making it into the top 4. A call as made to the OHSAA (mot likely to Dale Gabor), and the response was something along the lines of, "you're only sending 4 runners to state, so figure something out." The solution was to come back for a re-run 2 days in later in 90+ degree heat. IIRC, there was a clock at the finish line. I would think a few of those top 4 runners would've realized their times couldn't possibly be correct for having completed 8 laps.
My son had lapped the field at the Xenia Inv. 3200. After he crossed the finish line, the next two runners stopped when they finished their 7th lap. The lap counters gave them their times as if they were done. Our second runner was in 4th and kept running. After he passed, we informed the official that the other two weren’t finished. They both smiled and took off running. ( my boy still holds the meet record)
 

CC Track Fan

Active member
At district meet a few years ago two teammates were running together in the 3200 got lapped by top 4 runners one of them stopped after his 7th lap because others in front of him did and his teammate kept running the final lap. When results came out they were placed 5th and 6th. The coach went and told them that it was wrong that they should a been near or at the back but they wouldn't change it. Officials said the teammates were running together the entire race so if one was 5th the other was 6th. The coach argued but they were convinced they were scored correctly and would change the results. Just amazing how a 11+ minute 3200 runner almost made it to D1 regional meet.
 
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