Division VII State Final Marion Local vs Dalton

Who wins?

  • Marion Local by 35+

    Votes: 19 13.2%

  • Marion Local by 17-34

    Votes: 56 38.9%

  • Marion Local by 8-16

    Votes: 32 22.2%

  • Marion Local by 1-7

    Votes: 5 3.5%

  • Dalton

    Votes: 32 22.2%
  • Total voters
    144
  • Poll closed .
dnis30 said:
Painfully, I re-watched the 2019 state title game this morning. As far as Marion Local D7 games go, Lucas put them to the test that day.
With Lucas down 15 with 5 mins left and driving pretty deep in Local territory, it wasn't easy for ML. The fumble on that drive sunk us.
Penalties, sacks and 4th quarter turnovers were the difference. The Lucas penalties on the opening drive, and late in the game on the 1st
down play were huge. Super proud of the way our Cubs hung in that day.
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Yes as i recall your son took a beating with all those sacks..And yes you gave us a heck of a game.....
 
ru4ml said:
Yes as i recall your son took a beating with all those sacks..And yes you gave us a heck of a game.....
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Our OL struggled badly in that match-up. Those edge rushers for ML were a problem.
The one D end was co-defensive player of the year in D7 if I remember correctly.
 

Watch the punt return at the 1:15 mark, 1st the over shoulder catch by Hoelscher than the wall set up by ML's return team. Dalton's H.C. said afterwards that he has never seen a team scheme returns at this level like Marion Local. I would say very few H.S. teams in Ohio at any level set up a wall like the Flyers did on that return.
 
BiggieBag said:
Dials time at Dalton has truly been interesting. He has had great rosters no doubt...but before him it was the dark ages...when there was just as good of talent and it was completely and utterly wasted....Dial is the future
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I enjoyed your posts leading up to the game. You did what every fan does and proudly supported your team. I hope Dials can continue to build the program stronger. Listening to the post game press conference, you could tell he just didn't have any answers now. But, good learning experience for him. Congrats to Dalton and Marion on Great seasons.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:

Watch the punt return at the 1:15 mark, 1st the over shoulder catch by Hoelscher than the wall set up by ML's return team. Dalton's H.C. said afterwards that he has never seen a team scheme returns at this level like Marion Local. I would say very few H.S. teams in Ohio at any level set up a wall like the Flyers did on that return.
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From the Daily Standard - "The special teams in the MAC are just so much better than what we see in the playoffs," Goodwin said. "We've got some athletes this year, let's not pooh-pooh that - we've got some guys that can cover some grass. But special teams are way different during the regular season. We've got to scheme them up, we've got to work them."

Hoelscher broke the record for longest Punt Return TD in a D-7 championship game previously held by Dave Homan of NB in 2020. Definitely something to be said about Special Teams in the MAC.
 
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Stirred not Shaken said:

Watch the punt return at the 1:15 mark, 1st the over shoulder catch by Hoelscher than the wall set up by ML's return team. Dalton's H.C. said afterwards that he has never seen a team scheme returns at this level like Marion Local. I would say very few H.S. teams in Ohio at any level set up a wall like the Flyers did on that return.
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This could literally be teaching tape for any high school or college program. The blockers don't simply release and run downfield to reacquire their blocks, they hold/delay and run with them the entire way. The snip below, first 6 white jerseys downfield are already accounted for leaving only the punter & 4 others to hopefully make the tackle. The returner makes a nice cut off a screen block to eliminate the safety and it's over.

Hoelscher should be 1st team all state as a WR, but this is evidence that great returns don't require premier athletic talent. Every trip to Canton MSML gives the rest of the state a master course in execution & effort.

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Raylan_Givens said:
This could literally be teaching tape for any high school or college program. The blockers don't simply release and run downfield to reacquire their blocks, they hold/delay and run with them the entire way. The snip below, first 6 white jerseys downfield are already accounted for leaving only the punter & 4 others to hopefully make the tackle. The returner makes a nice cut off a screen block to eliminate the safety and it's over.

Hoelscher should be 1st team all state as a WR, but this is evidence that great returns don't require premier athletic talent. Every trip to Canton MSML gives the rest of the state a master course in execution & effort.
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Also helps that every ML player looks bigger stronger faster than their counterpart. I'm sure they train hard but must be something in the water over there. I will grant you they (and Kirtland) DO treat their football very differently than most small schools.
 
TigerPaw said:
Also helps that every ML player looks bigger stronger faster than their counterpart. I'm sure they train hard but must be something in the water over there. I will grant you they (and Kirtland) DO treat their football very differently than most small schools.
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Today said:
Goodwin says in the presser, that the Marion kids are hold themselves accountable to win State. That is a different mindset. It is not a goal to get to state. It is your responsibility to win State.
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TP - I think Today's post answers that "something in the water" observation.

As far as the "bigger stronger" comment - on the punt return it absolutely does. But Dalton's line was MUCH bigger than MSML. But if you scrubbed the bodies out of the video and only saw the helmets & the ball you'd swear that MSML was 2x bigger at every position. Even though they weren't.
 
Today said:
Goodwin says in the presser, that the Marion kids are hold themselves accountable to win State. That is a different mindset. It is not a goal to get to state. It is your responsibility to win State.
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What the heck else is there for them? Pretty much state or bust at this point. Talent level from class to class is certainly not a determining factor or concern for them, as with most publics. I don't know if it ever gets old, but does it? If anyone would want to move up voluntarily, you'd think they'd be begging to, no?
 
Stirred not Shaken said:

Watch the punt return at the 1:15 mark, 1st the over shoulder catch by Hoelscher than the wall set up by ML's return team. Dalton's H.C. said afterwards that he has never seen a team scheme returns at this level like Marion Local. I would say very few H.S. teams in Ohio at any level set up a wall like the Flyers did on that return.
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you got to be kidding... how many teams do you think are able to do this in Ohio? 2 or 3? heck two of the best at it are Versailles and Coldwater ( they did it when Reed was a coach)
 
TigerPaw said:
What the heck else is there for them? Pretty much state or bust at this point. Talent level from class to class is certainly not a determining factor or concern for them, as with most publics. I don't know if it ever gets old, but does it? If anyone would want to move up voluntarily, you'd think they'd be begging to, no?
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That "move up" question has been asked by lots of folks. To me I'd ask "why?" To paraphrase GEN Patton they fight where they are told and where they fight they win.

Others may be “tired” of them winning, but every year there is a new group of seniors who don’t want to be the ones who “let down” their legacy. To arbitrarily move them up for doing everything as right sounds pretty in-American to me
 
TigerPaw said:
Also helps that every ML player looks bigger stronger faster than their counterpart. I'm sure they train hard but must be something in the water over there. I will grant you they (and Kirtland) DO treat their football very differently than most small schools.
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Faster, maybe. But one can see something is definitely different when running into an ML 5'9 185 pounder versus the field.
 
Raylan_Givens said:
That "move up" question has been asked by lots of folks. To me I'd ask "why?" To paraphrase GEN Patton they fight where they are told and where they fight they win.

Others may be “tired” of them winning, but every year there is a new group of seniors who don’t want to be the ones who “let down” their legacy. To arbitrarily move them up for doing everything as right sounds pretty in-American to me
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Not arbitrarily. I think this idea of ohsaa moving teams up or down based in success is stupid. But if anyone would want to voluntarily it would be ML is all I was saying. Hell Glenville is ready to move up after 2 titles to get people off their back. They’re just too good for D7. Plus they are basically same size as Kirtland they need to be playing each other.
 
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TigerPaw said:
What the heck else is there for them? Pretty much state or bust at this point. Talent level from class to class is certainly not a determining factor or concern for them, as with most publics. I don't know if it ever gets old, but does it? If anyone would want to move up voluntarily, you'd think they'd be begging to, no?
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It makes logical sense from a fan of high school football to suggest that a team has done all they can at one level and time to move up. On the other hand, from the perspective of the school personally involved, and the players who get one or two cracks at a state title, they likely prefer to compete right where the rules place them.

Think how it might feel years down the road, a group of middle aged men are talking at halftime of the game and one of them outs a member of the group who's class failed to even reach the state finals. Abject failure! Moving them up until they fail just to see how good they really are seems unfair to the kids IMO.
 
D4fan said:
It makes logical sense from a fan of high school football to suggest that a team has done all they can at one level and time to move up. On the other hand, from the perspective of the school personally involved, and the players who get one or two cracks at a state title, they likely prefer to compete right where the rules place them.

Think how it might feel years down the road, a group of middle aged men are talking at halftime of the game and one of them outs a member of the group who's class failed to even reach the state finals. Abject failure! Moving them up until they fail just to see how good they really are seems unfair to the kids IMO.
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For the 2nd time I was not implying OHSAA move teams up or down. But it is actually ludicrous to consider not reaching a finals "abject failure" worthy of ridicule. What does that say, they consider the rest of D6/D7 a joke and/or we don't belong in it? Is it like Glenville winning the Senate League?

Like I said they did not draw the divisions. The problem is Ohio has way too many small schools and OHSAA insisted each div. have an equal number of teams. Jmo. Funny though how the people whining that Massillon and Glenville should compete against D1 are not as outspoken about Kirtland and ML or teams that close in size compete against each other.
 
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Raylan_Givens said:
That "move up" question has been asked by lots of folks. To me I'd ask "why?" To paraphrase GEN Patton they fight where they are told and where they fight they win.

Others may be “tired” of them winning, but every year there is a new group of seniors who don’t want to be the ones who “let down” their legacy. To arbitrarily move them up for doing everything as right sounds pretty in-American to me
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I agree they shouldn't be moved up, but the fact that you can go undefeated and win your division and then the next year drop a division is stupid. Local did it this year and so did Toledo Central Catholic, they won D2 last year dropped to D3 and won D3 this year.
 
BirdDog10 said:
I agree they shouldn't be moved up, but the fact that you can go undefeated and win your division and then the next year drop a division is stupid. Local did it this year and so did Toledo Central Catholic, they won D2 last year dropped to D3 and won D3 this year.
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That's a fair. You could make the argument that it's time to modify CB to account for titles. I'm firmly against the "win once, you move up the next year", but would entertain the idea that continued success should be reflected.

Not picking on MSML (LOVE what they're doing), but thinking of the Ursuline/Mooney teams over the years that were dominating at lower levels. Would also help mitigate the angst over the current Glenville situation.
 
BirdDog10 said:
I agree they shouldn't be moved up, but the fact that you can go undefeated and win your division and then the next year drop a division is stupid. Local did it this year and so did Toledo Central Catholic, they won D2 last year dropped to D3 and won D3 this year.
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Just imagine if Central Catholic went to D4 next year. They could play Glenville!!! ;)
 
TigerPaw said:
For the 2nd time I was not implying OHSAA move teams up or down. But it is actually ludicrous to consider not reaching a finals "abject failure" worthy of ridicule. What does that say, they consider the rest of D6/D7 a joke and/or we don't belong in it? Is it like Glenville winning the Senate League?

Like I said they did not draw the divisions. The problem is Ohio has way too many small schools and OHSAA insisted each div. have an equal number of teams. Jmo. Funny though how the people whining that Massillon and Glenville should compete against D1 are not as outspoken about Kirtland and ML or teams that close in size compete against each other.
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Abject failure was a reference to how a class might be perceived by their peers in the same community. Not a reference to schools who never get past a round or two of the playoffs.
 
TigerPaw said:
For the 2nd time I was not implying OHSAA move teams up or down. But it is actually ludicrous to consider not reaching a finals "abject failure" worthy of ridicule. What does that say, they consider the rest of D6/D7 a joke and/or we don't belong in it? Is it like Glenville winning the Senate League?

Like I said they did not draw the divisions. The problem is Ohio has way too many small schools and OHSAA insisted each div. have an equal number of teams. Jmo. Funny though how the people whining that Massillon and Glenville should compete against D1 are not as outspoken about Kirtland and ML or teams that close in size compete against each other.
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Disagreed with you earlier, but catching what you're shoveling here. OHSAA "fixes" to the football system are the equivalent of my cousin's home repairs - duct tape & turn up the TV.

Bottom line though, any 5 random posters on here are more concerned about competition than the whole of the OHSAA. The expansion to 7 divisions & the increase to 16 team regions was all about one thing - MONEY. Their only concern with teams winning too much is if it impacts their finances.

Remember, the finals are just 7 games. OHSAA is making more money on weeks 11 - 13 than they are on 14 - 16.
 
TigerPaw said:
For the 2nd time I was not implying OHSAA move teams up or down. But it is actually ludicrous to consider not reaching a finals "abject failure" worthy of ridicule. What does that say, they consider the rest of D6/D7 a joke and/or we don't belong in it? Is it like Glenville winning the Senate League?

Like I said they did not draw the divisions. The problem is Ohio has way too many small schools and OHSAA insisted each div. have an equal number of teams. Jmo. Funny though how the people whining that Massillon and Glenville should compete against D1 are not as outspoken about Kirtland and ML or teams that close in size compete against each other.
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Oh they most certainly are ripping on Marion to move up. Probably more than Massillon actually but D1 and 2 get the love on this site. You need to look elsewhere. People all over social media are complaining Marion is a school that recruits their kids and aren't a true D7 school. They also manipulate their enrollment to get into D7 apparently.
 
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