REC.45
New member
Correct me if I'm wrong...9 of Massillon's 14 games have been against play off teams.
Division II State Championship: Massillon Washington (14-0) vs. La Salle (12-2)
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Maxie
🏈 2023 State Champions——16-0
Yes, you are correct.
We Are Massillon
Active member
Just watched your playoff game tonight on Spectrum. I like #3, #24 and your qb. Toss in your nose guard. Great players. We just have more. Also have watched the Winton Woods game. We would hammer both of those teams. The best way to describe you guys is a poor man's Hoban. Lasalle is a good team but just not great. This is a great team you're about to play. And if you can't get to our qb, we're gonna kill you guys. If you do, we'll win by 10-12 points. See you in our backyard!
CinciSportsFan
Active member
Since when is 12 points killing someone?
We Are Massillon
Active member
It's not. That's IF you can get to our qb consistently. If you can't, you're in big trouble. 17-28 point loss.
LS92
Well-known member
11 of LS' 14 opponents made their respective playoffs.
Of the other 3, Winton Woods's 24.39 Harbin Points would have merited a home game in the other three D2 regions, and a playoff berth in all D1 regions, save R1.
Again, LS had the more challenging regular season schedule, and Massillon has had the more challenging playoff schedule.
Of the other 3, Winton Woods's 24.39 Harbin Points would have merited a home game in the other three D2 regions, and a playoff berth in all D1 regions, save R1.
Again, LS had the more challenging regular season schedule, and Massillon has had the more challenging playoff schedule.
We Are Massillon
Active member
Btw, Northeast Ohio football is the best in the state this year. I'd take Massillon, Mentor, St. Eds or Hoban over ANY Cinci school. You're overrating yourselves. Only talking about this year, to be clear. Also, why so salty? Just because we got your coach and your best player, three years ago, doesn't mean you need to get your panties in a bunch and name call. Just come up on Thursday , enjoy the Massillon field advantage with our superior fanbase and witness history. The 900th career victory (tops in the NATION) and 25th State Title (also tops in the country). You had a nice year for a three loss team. State Finalist isn't bad! And also try Tim's Tavern, they're famous for fish
REC.45
New member
Massillon's 39.9 to your 34.5 if your comparing computer points
LS92
Well-known member
Quite true.
Massillon 2019's 39.9 Harbin Points is 13th best in the JoeEitel era (2002-present) for which I have data. It is the #1 Harbin score for all D2 schools during that stretch. Rounding out the top 5 D2 schools during that era include: Grafton Midview 2014, Massillon Washington 2018, Avon Lake 2005, and La Salle 2015. Of those, the LS2015 was the only season containing regular season losses (2 of them). This is a major feather in Massillon's cap!
On the more challenging schedule topic, 2019 Massillon's harvestable L2 total (excluding opponents' games versus Massillon) was 339.0 points;
2019 La Salle's harvestable L2 total (excluding opponents' games versus La Salle) was 353.0 (assuming that CovCath's 6 opponents whose school size was not specified on JoeEitel.com were all D7, which is clearly an underestimate).
That said, Massillon did beat all comers, and performed to the maximum possible against the schedule they faced. La Salle potentially could have done better, but did not.
So the statement that La Salle's regular season schedule was more challenging remains intact. Massillon's was indeed challenging, from a historical perspective. La Salle's was moreso.
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REC.45
New member
I guess that is why the game is played on the field. Good luck Thursday
LS92
Well-known member
I saw another interesting piece of recent historical trivia.
In the "Nate Moore at Massillon era" (2015-present):
Massillon: 50-14 (12-5 v D1 (0.706), 38-9 v Others (0.809))
Given that it generally takes Nate Moore one initial down season to get a program started, we could choose to exclude that first season to make Massillon's numbers look better:
Mass2016+: 44-8 (12-2 v D1 (0.857), 34-6 v Others (0.850))
La Salle: 52-15 (20-9 v D1 (0.690), 32-5 v Others (0.865))
I have not computed the records of the D1 opponents each team faced, because I'm feeling lazy.
Both schools have performed admirably during this era. Looking forward to the Nate Moore Bowl.
In the "Nate Moore at Massillon era" (2015-present):
Massillon: 50-14 (12-5 v D1 (0.706), 38-9 v Others (0.809))
Given that it generally takes Nate Moore one initial down season to get a program started, we could choose to exclude that first season to make Massillon's numbers look better:
Mass2016+: 44-8 (12-2 v D1 (0.857), 34-6 v Others (0.850))
La Salle: 52-15 (20-9 v D1 (0.690), 32-5 v Others (0.865))
I have not computed the records of the D1 opponents each team faced, because I'm feeling lazy.
Both schools have performed admirably during this era. Looking forward to the Nate Moore Bowl.
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LS92
Well-known member
Indeed. Good luck to you as well.
LS92
Well-known member
My apologies, my earlier answer of "Hoban and Penn-Trafford" was glib and incomplete.
The more complete answer, using MaxPreps' rating pre-week 14, is as follows:
Tm-Opp-Rating
--------------------
LS-Elder-67.9
**Washington Tigers - 66.1**
LS-StX-61.3
LS-CovCath-61.2
LS-WW-58.4
**La Salle Lancers - 57.9**
--------------------
*MW-Hoban-57.8
*LS-TCC-57.8
*MW-Avon-54.4
MW-McKinley-50.0
--------------------
LS-MansfieldMA-48.4
MW-GatewayPA-47.6
*LS-Harrison-47.5
MW-PennTrafford-43.6
--------------------
LS-LakotaWest-42.4
*MW-Perry-39.9
LS-Mason-35.5
*LS-WalnutRidge-35.4
--------------------
MW-SVSM-34.4
MW-Barberton-33.6
*MW-WGH-32.6 (playoffs)
MW-WGH-32.6 (reg season)
--------------------
LS-Moeller-31.9
MW-AFitch-28.8
*LS-LittleMiami-27.6
LS-StJoesNY-26.2
--------------------
MW-Louisville-22.8
LS-Dunbar-4.0
MW-GlenOak-3.8
MW-Firestone-(-26.6) (sorry, didn't realize MaxPreps gave out negative ratings)
The usual disclaimers apply, that MaxPreps, while certainly not score-agnostic, heavily waits teams based upon their SoS.
It also does not handle games against international opponents well, giving them a default Rating of 0.0 (similar to GlenOak and Dunbar, better than Firestone). Then again, maybe that IS handling them close to correctly.
So, depending on how one defines the IsTheCaliberOf() function (typically within a certain range, not a simple direct GreaterThanOrEqualTo() ), I would say the answer is Hoban, TCC (for La Salle), and Avon could be considered to be IsTheCaliberOf(min(Elder,StX,WW)). If strictly using a GreaterThanOrEqualTo(min(Elder,StX,WW)), the answer would be noone. However that fails to take into account Hoban's postseason loss which is included within their rankings lowering them below Winton Woods for the first time this season.
The better answer should have been: Hoban.
Sticking to my "La Salle had the more challenging regular season schedule, Massillon has had the more challenging playoff schedule" statement from earlier.
---
The Harbins contradict this argument, stating LS' playoff schedule was more difficult, so I'd say MaxPreps is the better metric to use here:
Playoff Harbins
MW WGH 16.1222, Perry 24.3470, Hoban 28.7869, Avon 33.5500
LS LM 24.8500, WR 26.2500, Harrison 30.8500, TCC 35.8449
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Benchboss1
Well-known member
Agree with this entire post
Termite2
Well-known member
Actually, CovCath is #1 in the Cincy area, ahead of all those Cincy D1 schools. It shows that Cincy area is down this year, if CovCath can beat LS 27-7 then Massillon wins 35-7
W@rrior 11
Active member
I’m going for LaSalle. Bring it home for Cincinnati
Sua Sponte
Well-known member
GO TIGERS!!!!!!
Pride comes into play here but I don't think that is debatable. LaSalle and WW schedules were true meat grinders. By the latter half of the season I had LaSalle > Hoban. Will take our best effort to date.
If you know our history it is only fitting we face the best private school juggernaut in Ohio, and this year twice, in now our 5th attempt. Winners of the last 7 straight D2 state championships. I would love to say I wouldn't have it any other way but honestly it would be nice to square off v. a public school one of these years. No offense, should be exciting.
murphy13
Well-known member
From what I have seen so far online the guy at LaSalle is no Elder and certainly not a Kyle. The LaSalle fans have said it themselves they have assembled so much talent even a chimp could lead them to multiple titles in D2 throughout the years.
I read earlier all 5 kids who play in the secondary have D1 offer sheets. That is unbelievable. We are going to have to be ON POINT in the passing game. Given some recent match ups this a major concern going in for me.
Massillon#82
Well-known member
Look at it this way the last 2 weeks the passing game is only 13-26 171 yds 2 TD’s and 2 Int’s and the Tigers beat 2 of the top 5 teams in D2. But I do agree it will need to be better this week. Look out if it’s clicking !!!
TIG !!!
LS92
Well-known member
Ok, do not construe any of this as an excuse. Winton Woods truly earned that win, especially in the second half.
La Salle's game plan and preparation for the week was on the money, which got us off to an early lead. Two of our six primary weapons on offense were either out of commission or at limited ability due to injury that week. Winton Woods' coaches made some good adjustments at the half and Miyan Williams put the game on his back in the second half and flat out earned the W.
That's it. While I feel bad for Winton Woods that they did not make the playoffs, and have posted about the state going regionless as a result, it has been a much less difficult playoff run without having to face WW a second time. They have some talent, and will do great in the ECC next year.
sapientia et veritas
Well-known member
Go Lancers!
Thanks. I figured injuries were part of it. I can't wait to watch Williams in a Buckeye uniform.
As a side note, totally agree with you: go regionless, take the top 32, then seed and build the regions.
Scoob
Active member
People leaving early might be what you are used to down there. I will take that bet. Especially knowing that LaSalle gets outcoached in the 2nd half. Pay attention Thursday. Our boys WILL run the ball right between the tackles.
cincyhighschoolfootball
Member
Many LS fans are just like LS92! only slim choose to act delusional. Having all LS and Massillon fans tailgate together would be amazing. What high school football is all about!
LS92
Well-known member
The radio announcers during the TCC-La Salle halftime mentioned that Beechwood (small school, think D5, in Kentucky) played a playoff game 4 hours from their school (in Paducah, KY) recently. The host team's fans BBQ'ed a whole hog in the parking lot before the game ... and invited all the Beechwood faithful who made the long trip to partake with them before the game.
Exactly what HS football is about.
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